VON 3 hard

[VirieSquichie]

On normal I could see your arguement and might even agree. On hard, I would think twinking was the norm........... Its suppossed to be hard.

The beholders are the only things in VON 3 that make the quest difficult on any setting and I think thats only because we have little to no defense vs them.

Any defense we may put up is stripped and then 1 of 2 rays ends us: enervation or disintergrate.

Deathblock items dont work vs either and one has no save.


What works for me:

- stay out of line of sight
- casters drop firewall on beholes with limited space to move
- rangers strafe between cover points
- lead them into web and let the fighters hack em to bits
- warforged have less to worry about
- always hold someone back who can save you all in the event of a near wipe (rogue/cleric or sneaking guy)


they suck but brains will beat them before brawn does.

The straight on approach only works for the ubertwinks, and the AoE approach has never been a good one for beholders. Web does work nicely on all but elite, PK has always been the spell of choice (I hear they're afraid of thumbtacks) and I've seen several people handle them without drama at level. I've only seen that area go really poorly when someone zergs into the middle of 'em all and gets 'em all active at once, really.

Now, the big combat just before the three named is another matter...I've seen that go poorly with even a well equipped party, if the baddies get people split up and not concentrating damage properly...again, party tactics and communication generally rules the day.

[negative]

BLASPHEMY!!!!

OK, maybe not.

How accurate is it MT?

I'm not MT, but I'd say "vaguely" looking at this:

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/orary/orary.asp

[Pwesiela]

Now, the big combat just before the three named is another matter...I've seen that go poorly with even a well equipped party, if the baddies get people split up and not concentrating damage properly...again, party tactics and communication generally rules the day.

Funny thing is, you get a partially decent body puller, and this fight is also a piece of cake.

The elf is far enough to the side of the other two that you can pull him separate. Then the beholder or the troll moves a bit and you can grab one or the other. Should you get both, well, take the troll into the chest room and Mr. big bad beholder can't do anything while you wail on his "friend".

Named beholder that you can't pk or otherwise feeblemind? He sets himself up very nicely for a well placed firewall.

[Gadget2775]

Funny thing is, you get a partially decent body puller, and this fight is also a piece of cake.

The elf is far enough to the side of the other two that you can pull him separate. Then the beholder or the troll moves a bit and you can grab one or the other. Should you get both, well, take the troll into the chest room and Mr. big bad beholder can't do anything while you wail on his "friend".

Named beholder that you can't pk or otherwise feeblemind? He sets himself up very nicely for a well placed firewall.

Believe VirieSquichie actually meant the mobs in the big area, shrine room and chest room that jump you before the three red named.

[sirgog]

I think the main thing with this quest is that, despite solid tactics enabling groups to get through it, it is far harder than its level indicates.

Level 9 twinked groups can certainly beat it even on elite - but those same groups probably find Trial by Fire or even Madstone Crater easier than VON3 is (assuming the same difficulty level). And those quests are 4-5 levels higher than VON3. Or, that party of 6 could hit Tempest's Spine with no other players and find it about as hard as VON3.

IMO the quest should be left exactly as it is, but changed to be level 11 or 12.

[GlassCannon]

I think the main thing with this quest is that, despite solid tactics enabling groups to get through it, it is far harder than its level indicates.

Level 9 twinked groups can certainly beat it even on elite - but those same groups probably find Trial by Fire or even Madstone Crater easier than VON3 is (assuming the same difficulty level). And those quests are 4-5 levels higher than VON3. Or, that party of 6 could hit Tempest's Spine with no other players and find it about as hard as VON3.

IMO the quest should be left exactly as it is, but changed to be level 11 or 12.

Changing the XP rating for a level 12 quest on Normal would certainly improve the balance of it, since the quest is clearly balanced for the level 11-12 range.... but then, why run the rest of the series as a level 8-9? The Raid is a level 10 quest after all, so unless the Dev Team wants to go rescale the entire VON series 1-6, they need to pull back on the reigns a bit, rob the Beholders of such nasty spells(Want an Instakill? use PK, NOT FoD, and I do not want to even see Flesh to Stone or Enervate used one time, NOT ONCE, in Normal if it is scaled back to a CR9 quest), scale back the Named Monsters(Come on, a Beholder with a 60AC? Seriously?), the Marut(His DR is intolerable and his AC isn't much better), the Scorpions that hit for 50 points, ignore AC, and have too much HP.... did I miss anything?

Changing the entire series to reflect a boost in the level of players running it is fine, so long as the entire chain is changed, and not just a few quests.

Yes, the guy really did leave. He said something about trying Age of Conan.

[Amabel]

It's just one of those quests where when it goes badly it goes VERY badly.

I used to hate and fear it. It's now one of my favourite quests in the game. The only thing I don't like is that the cheesy firewall method on the Marut is the vastly superior way to kill him.

By the way - beholder should be horrible and frightening!