VON 3 hard

[Turial]

IIRC, pretty much any damaging spell can if you roll a 1 on the save. I was jokingly referring to the fact that Disjunction will probably be coded soon, and what better candidate for using it than Beholders? Anyways, I used to love fighting Beholders, but now they're just as frustrating as Rusties.

All depends on how disjunction is coded in this game. I still like beholders but I have optics to protect me.

[tihocan]

Hrm, if you believe VoN3 on hard is meant to be completed at L8-9, you are seriously wrong.
And there's nothing wrong with it either. I just completed it yesterday with a 5 man group of 10-12 characters (which is a more appropriate level range for hard), no cleric and no rogue, without much trouble, except the end fight was a bit challenging because the wizard was a bit slow to get started.

Also, I remember VoN3 on normal taking 1h30 back when I was L8-10. It's never been an easy quest.

[Thrudh]

I just ran VON 3 a couple of days ago on normal in an average (non-twinked) PUG with my new cleric.

It was not easy... The Beholder room was very tough for them (as cleric, I hung way way back)... I offered a few suggestions, but mostly they figured it out on their own... They died quite a bit learning how to fight them.

(My cleric was an 8/2 cleric/monk, so I didn't have raise dead yet... I used 14 raise dead scrolls in there.... luckily I have the money so it wasn't a big deal like it would be for a new player)

But we got through... We almost wiped on the Marut, but the ranger did a great job running the Marut around while I raised the other two fighters...

We completed it without a party wipe... It took 1.5 hours at least... It was a hard, painful quest... but we completed it. And that 15k exp was sweet. We earned that experience.

VON 3 always been one of my favorites.

(For beholders, upgrade a silver amulet in the Necropolis to at least the second level, where it absorbs 5 negative energy attacks - wearing that amulet protects you from enervation (well until the charges run out). Use weakening weapon on them... Beholders have low strength. Once they hit 0 strength, they can't cast spells. Clear out either the left or right side, and try ranging the other beholders while ducking behind the pillars and mushrooms. Weakening bows with manyshot equals dead beholder.)

Note I was level 10, I think the others were 8-9, we were on normal, and it was TOUGH (but it's supposed to be!)

[pcproffy]

Twinked its not even a difficult quest. Paralyzers make a joke of beholders. Its normal for groups to make it with no deaths now.

There are even normal tactics that work great. Heightened web, PK, maximized nuking. How about sneaking and opening up with a stunning blow? Auto-crit, dead beholder in 3 seconds.

At the end its smart to not pull the beholder with the other 2 named. Maximize firewall, fireball, and scorching ray while tanks block the doorway. The troll lives about 5 seconds. For the beholder, let the firewall take his agro and then let the tanks pound him from behind.

And did the OP plan to fight a Marut without anarchic weapons? Probably.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

I used to think VON 3 was the hardest quest in the game.

I'm not aware of any changes that have made this quest any harder than it has always been.

Isn't it lvl 9 on normal? Hard is actually a lot harder then just one lvl higher you know.

Your are playing perma-death?

Can't you guys use raise dead?
Do you allow scrolls? Which you can use at lvl 7.

Seems to me that although challenging it is still very doable on normal by a lvl appropriate group....even permadeath as I understand it.

But like any other quest in the game, it is deadly when you have no clue what to expect and walk blindly into a pack of powerful monsters.

[Pwesiela]

Easiest way to defeat VoN 3 beholders:










Enlarged feeblemind.
Or not enlarged, your pick.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

Easiest way to defeat VoN 3 beholders:










Enlarged feeblemind.
Or not enlarged, your pick.

I agree!
PK is reckless.
Enlarged Feeblemind and a patient party is a cake walk.

[Leyoni]

Explain the feeblemind reference please.

I've only ever seen it done with PK.

[Gadget2775]

Enlarged feeblemind.
Or not enlarged, your pick.

DOH! Can't believe I've never seen/thought of that one. Genius, pure genius!

Spell: Feeblemind
Causes the enemy's Intelligence and Charisma levels each to drop to 1, giving it roughly the intelligence of a lizard. A successful Will save negates this effect.

Found here.

Explain the feeblemind reference please.

I've only ever seen it done with PK.

Casting stat of 1 means it can't cast anymore. No more casting = no more nasty death.

[Lithic]

Explain the feeblemind reference please.

I've only ever seen it done with PK.

Feeblemind turns beholders into giant floating kobold warriors (Ie: pathertic melee attack, no spells)

It also does not cause aggro on a failed save (Or at least didnt use to), so you can cast it until you get it to hit.

[Zenako]

Feeblemind turns beholders into giant floating kobold warriors (Ie: pathertic melee attack, no spells)

It also does not cause aggro on a failed save (Or at least didnt use to), so you can cast it until you get it to hit.

And with Enlarge you can be outside of their range for noticing you.....

[Talon_Moonshadow]

Explain the feeblemind reference please.

I've only ever seen it done with PK.

Feeblemind is supposebly permanent, does not draw agro (if they don't see you) and prevents them from casting spells.
(they still use their dispel magic attack though)

In theory they can still bite you, but in reality all they do is debuff you and pretend to attack.

Feeblemind neuters beholders and turns them into hissing little bunnys.

If you can stay out of sight (range) you can cast it over and over again until they fail their save.
Thus safer than PK. If they make their save on PK, they instantly agro on you, and tell all their friends to come beat you down in mass.

[ShadowFox1978]

Raise your hand if you remember the early days. Disintegrate through walls. Party wipe, recall. Get disintigrated standing in the inn. That was always funny(and frustrating at the same time.)

[Pwesiela]

I'd explain the feeblemind, but I think that's been successfully dealt with at this point.

That having been said, the beholder rays are considered spells, and since you can't cast while feebleminded....
Also, that having been said, it's an excellent way to eliminate just about any annoying caster that you just can't quite get rid of in a few moments of sword slinging (think the seer perched up on the rock ledge just before the first shrine in VoN3 or the concordians in part 5

Aes has a few debuff spells, but most notably feeblemind. Beholders? Mindflayers? Pfffft.



Oh, and /raises her hand
That and getting earthgrabbed in K from those nasty elementals in the plane of night, which is another dimension if I understand the quest correctly.

[Blazer]

Raise your hand if you remember the early days. Disintegrate through walls. Party wipe, recall. Get disintigrated standing in the inn. That was always funny(and frustrating at the same time.)

/raises hand

Ahh, the days of the several hour long VON 3 runs.

[Turial]

Raise your hand if you remember the early days. Disintegrate through walls. Party wipe, recall. Get disintigrated standing in the inn. That was always funny(and frustrating at the same time.)

Those were the days.

[Shagn]

Raise your hand if you remember the early days. Disintegrate through walls. Party wipe, recall. Get disintigrated standing in the inn. That was always funny(and frustrating at the same time.)

/raise

It was VERY frustrating to get disintegrated halfway across the map (at first shrine). IMO, von3 is a cakewalk compared to what it used to be. An inexperienced/n00b group is still going to have a rough time with the quest. There is nothing keeping them from completion though, just may have to try a few times. It's a great experience and will help prep them for what lies in higher levels...

[Lithic]

Oh, and /raises her hand
That and getting earthgrabbed in K from those nasty elementals in the plane of night, which is another dimension if I understand the quest correctly.

The plane of night is really just an orbital spacestation built by the dwarves of House K. You can see it as you fall off and burn up in reentry. This means all they need to earthgrab you is the super-duper-ultra-enlarge metamagic. This was apparently nerfed a while ago to their chagrin.

All of the "other planes" in ebberon seem to be just eberron's moons (and you can see a working model of this if you go near the quest entrance to prison of the planes). Thats why the planes have "eclipses" and wane/wax like our own moon does.

Not sure how accurate the POP model is though, you'd have to ask mystic thurge or some other eberron guru.

[negative]

Raise your hand if you remember the early days. Disintegrate through walls. Party wipe, recall. Get disintigrated standing in the inn. That was always funny(and frustrating at the same time.)

/raises hand

Ahhh, 4 hour Von 3 runs without a cleric that can cast res resulting in 0XP for completion and -10K or more in debt.

The plane of night is really just an orbital spacestation built by the dwarves of House K. You can see it as you fall off and burn up in reentry.

It's still some sort of pocket dimension from what I understand.

All of the "other planes" in ebberon seem to be just eberron's moons (and you can see a working model of this if you go near the quest entrance to prison of the planes). Thats why the planes have "eclipses" and wane/wax like our own moon does.

Not sure how accurate the POP model is though, you'd have to ask mystic thurge or some other eberron guru.

The planes are not the moons. They are full fledged planes. However, you are right, the planes do have an orbit. And as far as I know, the moons don't tie specifically to a particually plane, or even dragonmark or house, though there does seem to be some association between all of them when certain events have happened. Also, the orbit of the planes is WAY different than the orbit of the moons. The moons orbits are measured in months. The planes orbits are measured in up to thousands of years.

To the OP, Glass, I agree with you on many issues as we are both casual gamers, but they haven't changed anything in Von3. It just sounds like you went in with an under leveled, under prepared group that lacked a good leader or strategist. It honestly just sounds like the first run any vet made.

[Pwesiela]

Not sure how accurate the POP model is though, you'd have to ask mystic thurge or some other eberron guru.

BLASPHEMY!!!!

OK, maybe not.

How accurate is it MT?