Armored TWF - high AC possible?

[Aerendil]

Just curious if a reasonably medium-to-high AC fighter build is possible without going the DEX build with a Monk splash.
I realize a high DEX + WIS bonus is going to be numerically superior to wearing armor in most cases, but it just strikes me as odd (and horribly wrong) tanking a giant, fire-breathing dragon, wearing nothing but a cloth robe. I don't care if my AC is 200, I'd still feel... vulnerable.

So essentially I'd like to try to make a STR-build TWF Fighter (multiclassing if splashing is perfectly acceptable), while wearing heavy armor, and still have a reasonable AC.
Is this possible?

Dex to 19ish for the TWF feats shouldn't be too difficult these days, and with armor mastery enhancements you should be able to eek out a few extra AC points while wearing that adamantite fortified full plate of ugliness. Str is important for a reasonable dps (if I wanted to be "the" dps guy, I'd make a Barb or Ranger), as is some measure of surviving damage (either a high Con, HPs, or some other form of damage mitigation such as Warforged DR, perhaps, or Elven displacement dragonmarks).

So essentially it would be a happy medium between the uber AC / can't hit a thing builds, and the no AC - omgdidyouseethatcrit? builds. With heavy armor.

Any suggestions?

[stockwizard5]

I run 67 AC (69 without Rage) for most raids (76 with CE/Boost sometimes and 81 shield/blocking which I essentially never do) in Light Armor (for Evasion) with near max-dps on a STR based TWF build.

Is 67 High? If it is then yes - if not then you have a challenge (although acheivable) on your hands. If you don't care about evasion (which is what I think you are saying) then a 2 or 3 more points is not difficult to get.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

I'm not a build expert, and especially not good at tweaking super high numbers.

But a couple thoughts.

You will need a semi-high dex.

+5 MFP and Ftr AM III will let you get +6 AC dex bonus I think.

Shield clickie. Or splash Wiz1 for a 2min Shield spell. (good idea for WF IMO)

It's not AC, but the Elf Dragon mark for displacement helps a whole lot!

Natural armor bonus from the ring of balance from Invaders tokens. Or barkskin potions.

Chattering ring if you can get it of course.

Dodge feat, TW Defense feat.

Parrying wep.

Protection items.

Silver Flame trinket should give the +2 to AC from evil monsters like PfE spell (doesn't show up though, so I'm not sure)

Combat expertise of course.

Not sure how that all adds up, but it's not a bad AC. (high 40's?, almost 50 maybe?)

Add alchemical armor ritual.

[maddmatt70]

My dwarven level 16 fighter norg who wears the fullplate from VOD doesn't have CE, but can still hit a mid 60's ac while twf with all the buffs (recitation, inspire heroics, barkskin, haste, and pally aura) so that would mean if he had CE he could hit about 70 ac... The highest ac armor wearing twf fighter would probably be a dwarf with a highish dex and fighter and dwarven armor mastery wearing mithral full plate. Look for the upcoming dwarven defender prestige enhnacements for those guys as well.

[Aerendil]

Stockwizard5 - I'd say 67 is high. At least high enough for most survival purposes, definitely, although you'd know better than I as you've assuredly been on the receiving end with that AC. How survivable is it?
And the light armour for Evasion is definitely a very great thing if you're the tank, but it does pain to me to think that heavier armors (medium, heavy) are almost penalized having very little draw to them, and that light armor / no armor is so much more superior in most circumstances (evasion/imp. evasion, +wis bonus if monk, +dex bonus can get insane, no penalties to skills if unarmored, etc.).
/sigh.
But yeah, light armour may be the way to go.

Talon - I was thinking along the same lines, and in fact a few of those you mentioned I hadn't considered. I can't recall the DR granted from Two-Weapon Blocking, but I might try to pick that up too.
It does seem as though I'd lean towards Elf, though, for those dragonmarks (and the fact I'm a softie for dual longswords doesn't help either), but Elven hps scare me sometimes. Hmmm.
Wonder if we can still tweak out 60+ to compete with Stockwizard5's build (fighter/barb/monk or rogue by the looks of it?) with an Elf Fighter (with perhaps a /Rogue2 splash for Evasion)?

[djinni69]

I am not quite sure how the ealier poster can get a 69AC on a STR based build, but man, I'd love to see that breakdown. Very serious equipment The following breakdown assumes a 26 Dex (on most STR builds that means a +3 Tome was choked down), +5 Mithral Chain Shirt, and either Daggertooth's belt or F.A.M. III

My best guess at this would be:

10 Base
8 Dex Bonus
9 Mithral Armor
1 Two Weapon Defense
1 Armor Chemical
4 Shield Clicky
5 Protection Item
4 Insight (Green Steel Weapon)
1 Dodge Feat
3 Chattering Ring
2 Chaosguardes
3 Natural Armor (Barkskin pot)
1 Haste
---
52

Raid Buffs
2 Barkskin Spell
2 Recitation
4 Bard AC Song
---
60

Turtling
5 Combat Expertise
---
65

Special Circumstances
5 Full Paladin
5 Fighter AC Boost
---
75

I am coming up short on the 69AC that's for sure! What am I missing? Bottom line is that no matter what you do, if you want the "uber" AC, you have to work the DEX pretty hard.

[stockwizard5]

Horde runs with 24 DEX = 16 (6 build points for halfling) + 2 (tome) + 2 (4 action points for halfling / rogue) + 4 (Breatsplate of Vol)

Minimal investment really.

[djinni69]

Can you list out the rest? If it's "company secrets" I understand However, I have a STR based Sword and Board that I want to convert to TWF when cap goes up, and I'd love to see what you've done.

[The_Phenx]

My halfling sports a 25 (soon to be 26) dex.

Fighters armor mastery 3

White dragonscale

Armor ritual

Chattering Ring

Seal of the Earth

Shroud offhand insight weapon.

Dodge Feat

Sits at 45 unbuffed
VOD armor would take him to 46

Two weapon defense to 47

Prot 5 to 48

This ac is plenty, even in the subterranea...then I have the hound sheild to go to 57 unbuffed.

With all normal buffs (shield clicky, full barkskin, bard buffs) he is usually in the mid to low 50's dual weilding and at a 67 in ac mode.

Hope that helps.

[The_Phenx]

It's not AC, but the Elf Dragon mark for displacement helps a whole lot!

It is nice.. but... a 2nd tier shroud clickie (fairly easy to make) accomplishes this with 3 clicks of 1:35 displacement... and you dont waste three feats to get it, the only dragonmarks that are worth much at all are the halfling healing line.

Plus by going halfling you gain +1 ac +1 to hit and access to the halfling luck line for good boosts to your saves, and the halfling guile line for sweet sweet flanking damage and + to hit, and halfling dexterity.

[EKKM]

It is nice.. but... a 2nd tier shroud clickie (fairly easy to make) accomplishes this with 3 clicks of 1:35 displacement... and you dont waste three feats to get it, the only dragonmarks that are worth much at all are the halfling healing line.

Plus by going halfling you gain +1 ac +1 to hit and access to the halfling luck line for good boosts to your saves, and the halfling guile line for sweet sweet flanking damage and + to hit, and halfling dexterity.

FYI the Elven displacement mark is only second tier, shadow walk is the third.

[Aerendil]

^^ Yeah. I had a feeling Phenx knows this, so I didn't bother pointing that out. But yeah, you're right
It's nice as a pure Fighter to be able to have Displacement quite early on (I picked it up at 6, although I probably could have swung level 3 or 4 if I wanted).

I did toy around with this character concept, though, and got an Elf 5 or 6 Fighter (I forget where I left him off) / 1 Wizard (for Extend + 2min Shield). He did quite well up to this point, unless he has to main tank at which point he crashes and burns. His AC is extremely low for a proper tank (23ish), so having that Shield spell up or using a proper shield is essential.
So it's frustrating, to say the very least, that I need to equip a shield and/or cast Shield spell *and* pop a barkskin potion just to get the same AC as my Dwarven S&B Fighter at a similar level. Grrr

But his AC is especially noticeable in things like Delara's speed runs where it's essential to have Evasion and/or a reasonable AC for the entire run. However, I ran him through Gwylan's and he did wonderfully in there (as I had time to prep buff before certain boss encounters).

As I mentioned in the Ranger forum, if I had to do it all over again I'd probably go with a Ranger/Wizard, or simply level up as a S&B build and not jump right into TWF (as I did with this build).

So from here I'm not sure if I'll just re-roll him once Kensai is announced fully, or whether to keep going (either 10 Fighter / 6 Wizard or 15 Fighter / 1 Wizard, not sure which).

Plenty of fun when he's not tanking though, but that low AC, no Evasion, and no means of self-healing does hurt...

[drachine]

Do these dodge bonuses stack with each other?

[Blazer]

Do these dodge bonuses stack with each other?

All sources of Dodge bonus stack.