Its The Muppet Show!!!!!

[Eldun]

Clever girl getting a dig in by posting a covert message in your reason for editing!

[Deadslug]

I AM ALIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Allow me to explain the name choice. I'll also explain how this guild comes into existence. Our younger crowd on the server likes to play. They are not always aware that some of the things they do are annoying to other players. They aren't being malicious, they are not purposely trying to ruin anyone's gaming time. They are just trying to enjoy a game. Some of them, like my son, watch dad play. He thinks this game is really cool. He knows dungeons by name, layouts of dungeons by heart. He knows where each monster is and what kind it is. He on the other hand isn't really certain of what or when to use all those little clicky things down there on the row. He has chosen to make his main character a Sorceror. When most people attempt a lvl 8 appropriate dungeon they have certain expectations from their lvl 8 Sorc. Every spell choice is rather random and chaotic. He enjoys experimenting with them. Other party members find this annoying.
Out of the clear blue a tagline appeared next to people's LFM's. It said, "No Muppets". I do not know the origins of "No Muppets", but I know that it quickly transformmed into a statement meaning "No Kids". So people in guilds would ask, "hey? What does no muppets mean?" Someone would explain "No Kids" and the reasons that people do not like to quest with them. There would be a discussion, but all the reasons would be established. The thought and current meaning spread across the server. Suddenly it became very difficult for kids to find guilds, party's or anyone to play with for that matter. After awhile, someone said, "I'm going to encourage a guild, "Kids 12 & Under" to start. It started. It was good from the start, but then the elitist play found its way into that guild. So kids that had gone to that guild searching for "SOMEONE" to play with (other kids) were suddenly finding that they weren't welcome there either. If you go to the guild created for you and then get told you aren't welcome there, that's kind of upsetting.
I'll confess, I saw the kinds of tells my son was getting in guild, and said "Okay! this has to stop." I posted my very heart felt feelings on the topic inside this servers forums. My son wants to play. He has goals, he wants to get better, but no one will group with him. I hear him when he plays. I know he can be annoying. If I had a second computer, I would play with him. I do not have a second computer. I'm a guy who makes ends meet.
Server wide has started calling my son a muppet. He knows this and has been called this by adults on the server. "I'm sorry, I don't have the patience to deal with a muppet right now. I'm trying to get flagged."
So, when helping him to create the guild, my son. MY SON chose the name "The Muppet Show" He chose it because he wants someplace for "the muppets" to go to have fun playing the game. He takes the term "No Muppets" very personally. Because he has been called one to his face. NOT ONCE, but many times.
His choice for The Muppet Show was not directed as a slap towards one person using that line in their lfm's. He doesn't know who those people are. He doesn't remember many names outside the other kids he meets. He is familiar with many Umber Hulks. He's familiar with some of my online friends. He knows your name, Satya. He's heard me tell him how awesome of a player you are. He's heard me tell him that some of the cleanest, best, well run pug's i've been in, you ran. Plus your character names are fun to say.
So we'll take all your muppets send them here. We'll give them a fun place to play.

I'm 19037, and that's what I think.

[Impaqt]

In regards to the guild, I'm sorry you chose to use a name with this sort of existing stigma but I wish you all the best and I really hope the lot of the younger kids on the server can find a place to have fun here.

Good luck to you.

Pretty sure the "Existing Stigma" is being perpetuated by one guild/person.....

[satya_sai]

I AM ALIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

... He knows your name, Satya. He's heard me tell him how awesome of a player you are. He's heard me tell him that some of the cleanest, best, well run pug's i've been in, you ran. Plus your character names are fun to say.

Thank you very much for the compliment.
I was not aware that the muppet thing was being directed towards children at all.
In fact, I know for sure it isn't used that way by my friend in my guild and her friends.
New perspective of the point, ty.

Pretty sure the "Existing Stigma" is being perpetuated by one guild/person.....

Well if you're talking about my guild, only one person in my guild uses that on the lfms. If you're talking about her being the only person using the saying on the server.., she's not. Many people use it, as illustrated by deadslug's post above.
-shrug .. not sure what you meant by that.

If you're trying to slide in a vague insult along the lines of material your guildy posted earlier this week about being elitist and too good for people or kids.... I'll say again, she runs pugs every single day and takes many new players and kids along and shows them the ropes... She's not an elitist or a snob that won't play with other people, she does regularly and thought the tagline was cute and a joke more than anything....so really a smear in her general direction only goes to show that you're not familiar with her at all.

And as far as me...well some of the funnest times I had on this server were playing with Krispinn and Jecon's kids.

[moorewr]

Pretty sure the "Existing Stigma" is being perpetuated by one guild/person.....

JRP started it as a joke, but other people use it now.

I can't imagine him wanting to actually offend anyone.

[ace_mason]

The problem is the pc police strap on there badge and blow there whistle everytime they find anything that can be slightly used to start some ****. Muppets is not an offensive term. ITS A JOKE!!! Here is a little piece of advice for all of you that cant take a joke. "If you cant take a joke you are the joke"
With the maturity level that some of you handle yourselves with I doubt you would even pass for old enough to get into the new muppets guild. Grow up and worry about your own gaming experience and quit criticizing everyone else.
GOOD DAY SIR!!!

[Impaqt]

I'm just saying some people dont realize whenthe joke has run it course....

Kinda like the people who still think the "Rickroll" thing is funny.....

[Deadslug]

I AM ALIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Food for thought: The purpose of this guild, its name, nor my son trying to accomplish VON is not a joke.
Food for thought: Your post was not a joke either. It was not intended as a joke. It was not taken as a joke. In fact it had the ring of suggesting people avoid the guild. In fact it had the ring of something specifically defined as against Forum guidelines. I did in fact take your post as a direct attack on my son. He is 9. He is a kid. He is trying hard.
I think you will understand seeing me bar my teeth in response to your post.

Point I would like to make. I am trying to create a positive place for kids (like my own) to play on this server. I understand that adults have not liked playing with him or kids like him. My son who has watched me play DDO continually since BETA (with a brief 6 month break while I deployed to the Persian Gulf) wants to play this game. He wants to fight the dragon. All of us who have successfully ran VON, know that this series of quests are not the easiest. He would be more successful if he was playing with other kids. Perhaps you do not like the selection of guild names? There are many "silly" guild names out there. "The Muppet Show" Its a cool show. Its catchy? Its geared towards kids? This thread went down a very positive path for about a week. Maybe Necroshade isn't the best choice of guild leader? Fine? He will be friendly to your kids. He will be enjoyed by your kids. He will enjoy playing with your kids. Your kids won't think its a big joke because of the "stigma" associated with the name. What do you think a better name would be? That can be changed.

Do not tell the server to blacklist my son's guild please.

I'm 19037, and that's what I think.

[moorewr]

I'm just saying some people dont realize whenthe joke has run it course....

Kinda like the people who still think the "Rickroll" thing is funny.....

I think it's still funny!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TiQCJXpbKg

lulz.

[Beherit_Baphomar]

I think the drama **** needs to be left out of this thread people.
Take it elsewhere.

Good luck OP.

[Ree]

Luckily, I monitor my kid's playtime, so I don't even need to chance it with an "all kid" guild.

/shrug

Yikes. Way to miss the point.

So you you post all this negativity in a thread a nine year old started (or was started on behalf of him), is that appropriate? I've played with 9 year olds, and I wouldn't put anything past them; you should know this, especially if you have kids.

This father isn't looking for a place to dump his kid. In fact I salute his efforts to help support and encourage his child, I wish more fathers were this way. And while I salute him, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't want to quest with his 9 year old, that is something for someone more patient and nurturing than I (I only have so much nurturing to go around, and it gets used in IRL).

Sorry for cross server post, this one just really got to me though.

Let's just try to keep it positive here folks and keep needlessly negative speculation where it's supposed to be on the interwebs, and good luck to all our DDO younglings!

[Deadslug]

And if anybody gives you any grief, just tell Auntie Uma and we'll see about straightening that out ASAP.

You know what Uamhas said? I don't know if she'll be able to follow up on it, but Pia can. Just check the sig

I AM ALIVE!!!!!!!!!!1

Auntie Uma!!!!!! Pia!!!!!!!! Help!

Delt,
I'm a dad? You've attacked my nine year old son? You stand by calling him names? It never dawned on you that this may actually be real? I have not attacked you or your kid?
Because you can not hear that, because you can not feel that, because you can not see that, because you in no way shape or form have attempted to be understanding of that, I can not believe that you are a parent. No parent would stand by and watch their kid attacked. Do you have any remorse? Do you have any comprehension of what it is that you have done? If i treated your kid like you are treating mine in the playground at your local park, you'd have some pretty harsh words for me, if you weren't attempting to settle it physically? I am continuing to try diplomacy (my charisma is low and my roll isn't high, I am a WF Barbarian ya know). I am continuing to try and explain, and reassure you that this is not a joke. You've come onto a guild recruiting thread and flamesprayed the guild and the leader. What's worse is you came into a kids' guild recruiting thread and did these things. I do not want drama between you and I. I do not want to have my son's guild recruiting thread locked because you did not show the discretion expected of a parent dealing with another parent's kid.
I have been around these forums for years. I have been around Thelanis for years. The people that do know me. The people that know I'm the Guild Leader of the Umber Hulks. These people know how concerned with this topic I was. The original post for this is "Kids 12 & Under" In that thread, many suggested we try to create a guild. You will notice that I am still not flame spraying you. I am trying to help you to understand who I am, who we are and to rebuttle what you have said. I promise. This is the last post I will direct towards you.
I am sorry that you had a negative experience with my son. If you do not want to quest with him, I understand. Many adults do not want to. You dropped group after 5 minutes. I notice that he completed VON 2 that day. They had one fail during VON 2. They must have completed VON 1. VON 2 is, by far, harder than 1. They completed both that day. I took over from him half way through VON 2 because he was worried about making others mad at him. That's what we do. I help him. He's my kid.

I'm 19037, and that's what I think.

[Krysta_Shadowvol]

Deadslug,

Simply put as a parent myself you are correct "No parent would stand by and watch their kid attacked."

That's why I am posting I wanted you to know that I applaud what your son is trying to do and wish him the best of luck.

I have grouped with some of you in the past including your son so If he needs a hand tell him to look me up (my nams are in my sig) and I'll help him out if I can.

I have a nephew who plays so I know the challenges they face sometimes.

See you in Stormreach.

[Voalkrynn2]

Great idea on having a kid guild. I hope it is successful and wish you good luck.

It is disappointing that other players are forced to put in LFMs 'No Kids". I will play with kids when I want to and on my terms. However, you can't discriminate by limiting membership to an age range without accepting the same action from adults that limit their game time to partying with adults.

[Pwesiela]

I AM ALIVE!!!!!!!!!!1

Auntie Uma!!!!!! Pia!!!!!!!! Help!

I think I (Pwes) need to step aside and allow Pia to respond.

/steps aside and a 3 foot halfling takes the floor, trimming her nails with what looks like a rather nasty wounding of puncturing dagger.

*ahem*

Helping to create a guild where younger adventurers of Stormreach can meet and mingle in a overseen (by guildleader father and by guildmember parent) and non-offensive manner is a noble endeavor and should be supported and lauded. Having it be a guild allows older and more experianced adventurers to undertake two separate and mutually exclusive actions.

1) Enter the adventure with a good understanding of who the player is and how it would be appropriate to respond and help in any given situations.

2) Leave the group politely and find adventure elsewhere, where one can engage in their raucous and callous behaviors with complete freedom.

Either way you do it, the point with the guild is that you do it nicely.

As a side note, for those of you who are interested, muppet is a term that does not originate with Jrp, or whoever used it first here. It's a relatively long standing term used in MMO's and only recently transplanted itself here in Thelanis. It is similar to the term noob. When seen as a guild name, keep in mind that it means the guild member is a younger adventurer who demands a higher level of sensitivity than my sisters Dominique and Mwetida do.

Everyone play nice.

*Pia sheathes the dagger next to its companion and melts into the black background of the forum pages while Pwes steps back up to the podium.

There. Play nice with them, or don't play with them. Your choice. But me and my sisters will be there to support them in their endeavors.

[Uamhas]

I frequently group with a fellow that's underage. Most people don't realize he's not an adult unless he talks, and then only because his voice is that of a pre-adolescent, not because of his behaviour. He's mature, a good listener, and an excellent player. He is the son of a very nice guy that also plays on Thelanis. I've also grouped with kids that I've had to /squelch just so I don't hear the "SQUEEE" through my headset one more time. Those usually only last until the end of that particular quest, then I gotta go. If you don't like to group with kids at all, maybe you should put me on your do not group with list. I'm not saying I will last through a von1-4 run with a kid with ADD and too much sugar, but you never know when I'll be in party with a minor. Yeah, kinda hard to believe.

There's a simple solution for the Umber Hulks and Delt: /squelch each other and go your seperate ways. Deadslug, I strongly recommend this course of action for you and your son. Delt, you've stated your opinion, and I urge you to leave it alone, now. I do not see an imminent meeting of the minds via the forum, but I could be wrong.
You can squelch here on the forums, too.

If I see anyone continuing to attack the OP, I will be most displeased.
This is a community, and as a community, we have certain checks and balances in place that work despite being unable to reach through the monitor and throttle someone that annoys us.

Remember that it could be much... MUCH worse.
This could be Khyber.
(I joke... ^)

[GeneralDiomedes]

A poorly chosen name nonetheless.

[Voalkrynn2]

I think I (Pwes) need to step aside and allow Pia to respond.

/steps aside and a 3 foot halfling takes the floor, trimming her nails with what looks like a rather nasty wounding of puncturing dagger.

*ahem*

Helping to create a guild where younger adventurers of Stormreach can meet and mingle in a overseen (by guildleader father and by guildmember parent) and non-offensive manner is a noble endeavor and should be supported and lauded. Having it be a guild allows older and more experianced adventurers to undertake two separate and mutually exclusive actions.

1) Enter the adventure with a good understanding of who the player is and how it would be appropriate to respond and help in any given situations.

2) Leave the group politely and find adventure elsewhere, where one can engage in their raucous and callous behaviors with complete freedom.

Either way you do it, the point with the guild is that you do it nicely.

As a side note, for those of you who are interested, muppet is a term that does not originate with Jrp, or whoever used it first here. It's a relatively long standing term used in MMO's and only recently transplanted itself here in Thelanis. It is similar to the term noob. When seen as a guild name, keep in mind that it means the guild member is a younger adventurer who demands a higher level of sensitivity than my sisters Dominique and Mwetida do.

Everyone play nice.

*Pia sheathes the dagger next to its companion and melts into the black background of the forum pages while Pwes steps back up to the podium.

There. Play nice with them, or don't play with them. Your choice. But me and my sisters will be there to support them in their endeavors.

To assume one would leave to solely enjoy the deprivations of "raucous and callous behaviors" is an ill conceived notion and inappropriate comment indeed. One might leave to enjoy game play that is coherent and successfully run quest as opposed to an ineffective chaotic multi-directional attack into STK that costs the cleric more than 90% of her mana healing kids before the party has reached the Kobold blockade, is doing most of the killing and has 3 of 6 stones in her backpack already. One might also decide to depart after being cursed or after tolerating incoherent ramblings about a kid's life clogging up voice chat all the way through VON 3 to the Marut. It is also quite difficult to figure out an individuals game play, be they adult or child, until it is too late. It is agreed that the manner in which one departs such a circumstance should be cordial and/or respectful.

[Enir]

This guild is a GREAT idea. Hope it continues.
I'm happy to party with younger players. And just like all other age groups, there are some players that are very good working with the group and others that are talkative, self-important, reckless pains.

Let's strive to nurture the next generation in positive ways; that includes the words and ideas we use in this particular thread.

P.S. 'The Muppet Show' was one of the greatest, most entertaining TV programs EVER!

[Bekki]

Best Wishes on the new guild,
If you need any help feel free to look me up.

I would be Glad to help out.

I will also let my guild officers know,
I am sure they will be glad to help and look out for you all.

Best of Luck.