Mithril and Adamantine, what materials closly resemble them IRL?

[Aranticus]

Or, Mithril could be somewhat like spiderweb... This could be a memory from gradeschool that started with bad info, but isn't a spiderweb supposed to be one of the strongest materials per weight or thickness?

If so, does anyone know if that strength would theoretically scale? (And is that just tensile strength anyway?)

yes it is the tensile strength. the tensile strength of spider web is as high as steel. however, a lot of people get confused tensile strength with other physical properties. for example silicon carbide has an extremely high tensile but is brittle

[Pwesiela]

density = mass / volume *snip*

You lost me there .

[Josh]

In the Marvel Universe, adamantium (with which Wolverine's skeleton was impregnated and from which Captain America's shield is made) is virtually unbreakable by Terrestrial means (maybe a Marvel-phile can correct me if I'm wrong).

In Marvel, there were are / were two types of Adamantium, "Normal" adamantium which was a resin like substance, and "True" adamatium which was a metal that was alloyed with steel. Normal adamantium had a hardness of 'Unearthly", which was quite strong but capable of being broken by the stronger Marvel characters like The Hulk, or Thor. True adamantium was a Class 1000 material, which was far stronger than normal adamantium and on the par with other strong metals like Uru (Thor and Beta Ray Bill's hammer). Cap's shield was a Class 3000 material, which is essentially impervious to just about anything outside of a galactic power. This is all from the old Marvel RPG.

To address the OP, how about carbon fiber for Mithral? Hard as steel, yet much lighter.

[Seacog]

In Marvel, there were are / were two types of Adamantium, "Normal" adamantium which was a resin like substance, and "True" adamatium which was a metal that was alloyed with steel. Normal adamantium had a hardness of 'Unearthly", which was quite strong but capable of being broken by the stronger Marvel characters like The Hulk, or Thor. True adamantium was a Class 1000 material, which was far stronger than normal adamantium and on the par with other strong metals like Uru (Thor and Beta Ray Bill's hammer). Cap's shield was a Class 3000 material, which is essentially impervious to just about anything outside of a galactic power. This is all from the old Marvel RPG.

To address the OP, how about carbon fiber for Mithral? Hard as steel, yet much lighter.

Not to mention in the marvel world, adamantium had to be found in its liquid form, if it cooled, it was impossible to reheat....

[Dracolich]

This is all from the old Marvel RPG.

To address the OP, how about carbon fiber for Mithral? Hard as steel, yet much lighter.

I loved that RPG I still have the box set with all the cardboard standups.

As for the Carbon Fiber I put that I thought next to Mithril but I figured since its not metalic it was just a matter of strength and weight that would be a good comparison.

Oh and as far as milking spiders as a previous person put. I saw a show on genetic manipulation. The were hypothesysing crossing spider DNA that controled silk production into a Goats DNA that produced the milk. They are attempting to create a goat you can milk that instead of milk you get a spider silk substance instead. That would be an awesome set of body armor. It would also make for a nasty goat had it turned out wrong.

All in all some very good Ideas, I like the Tungsten for Adamantine, I use that stuff alot welding it is very impervious to heat.

[Alavatar]

Carbon Fiber does not have very good shear strength nor is it very ductile, so I would not equate Carbon Fiber to Mithral. I still say that Titanium is a better fit.

I can see a Tungsten Carbide alloy being equivalent to Adamantine, but Tungsten is a very brittle material. It chips more then dents when damaged.

[Turial]

I loved that RPG I still have the box set with all the cardboard standups.

As for the Carbon Fiber I put that I thought next to Mithril but I figured since its not metalic it was just a matter of strength and weight that would be a good comparison.

Oh and as far as milking spiders as a previous person put. I saw a show on genetic manipulation. The were hypothesysing crossing spider DNA that controled silk production into a Goats DNA that produced the milk. They are attempting to create a goat you can milk that instead of milk you get a spider silk substance instead. That would be an awesome set of body armor. It would also make for a nasty goat had it turned out wrong.

All in all some very good Ideas, I like the Tungsten for Adamantine, I use that stuff alot welding it is very impervious to heat.

That gives me a nasty idea for an adventure for my poor players to go through.

[Ghoste]

yes it is the tensile strength. the tensile strength of spider web is as high as steel. however, a lot of people get confused tensile strength with other physical properties. for example silicon carbide has an extremely high tensile but is brittle

As high as steel? Nope, even higher. Some species' webs measure at five times the tensile strength of steel. Here's an article about a company in Montreal that has successfully modified goats to produce spider web proteins in their milk for industrial use. They talk about plans for making a lightweight kevlar-spider web body armor forthe US army.

[Bekki]

In the Marvel Universe, adamantium (with which Wolverine's skeleton was impregnated and from which Captain America's shield is made) is virtually unbreakable by Terrestrial means...

Adamantium Would be closer to some of the Steel Titanium Alloys They Have out there.

As to Brans Marvel Reference...

In the Marvel Universe, adamantium (with which Wolverine's skeleton was impregnated
and from which Captain America's shield is made) is virtually unbreakable by Terrestrial means...

/Bekki puts on His Marvel Comics T-Shirt...

Captain America's Shiel is actually a Unique Alloy of Adamantium/Vbranium.
And he is right it is Supposed to be Virtually Unbreakable.
According to Marvel Lore The only Substance that Comes close to being as strong is Thor's Uru Hammer.

But I admit, it has been a few years since I read comics so that may have changed...

[Aranticus]

As high as steel? Nope, even higher. Some species' webs measure at five times the tensile strength of steel. Here's an article about a company in Montreal that has successfully modified goats to produce spider web proteins in their milk for industrial use. They talk about plans for making a lightweight kevlar-spider web body armor forthe US army.

if you are talking about normal steel, yes the spider web is about twice as much tensile strength but when compared to high tensile steel, the web does not quite match up. that said, the mass of the web is so low that you can get more strength out pound per pound. do take note that tensile strength is an intensive property and thus does not related to the amount of material

tensile strength =/= strength

[Ghoste]

if you are talking about normal steel, yes the spider web is about twice as much tensile strength but when compared to high tensile steel, the web does not quite match up. that said, the mass of the web is so low that you can get more strength out pound per pound. do take note that tensile strength is an intensive property and thus does not related to the amount of material

tensile strength =/= strength

I know. You can get five times as much, actually.

And I know tensile strength =/= strength. Thanks for taking that much trouble to explain it to me through.

[branmakmuffin]

Adamantium Would be closer to some of the Steel Titanium Alloys They Have out there.

I never got the idea the adamantine in Faerun was supposed to be as strong as adamantium in the Marvel universe.

[Bekki]

I never got the idea the adamantine in Faerun was supposed to be as strong as adamantium in the Marvel universe.

Sorry, Mistype. I meant Adamantine...

However; after reading about some of the Tungsten and Carbon Steel Alloys some of the Other posters mentioned, this can get interesting...

[Aranticus]

I know. You can get five times as much, actually.

And I know tensile strength =/= strength. Thanks for taking that much trouble to explain it to me through.

looking at spider webs and kevlar, the reason why kevlar is used is that spider web is not very good at absorbing shock due to the flexibility of the material, unless something is done, it will not be able to stop the impact of the bullet. just think of it this way, a hammer hitting a cloth 'wall'. the 'wall' is resistant to damage as it can 'bend' to accomadate the hammer but if a person is standing behind the 'wall', the impact and shock is completely transferred. then again look at a concrete wall, smack it with a hammer it crumbles but the person behind will not feel the shock

so now imagine the kevlar to be like the concrete wall and with spider silk running thru it (like steel reinforced concrete), it becomes a composite so strong that not only it is not brittle but is also excellent in shock absorbance

[Wulf_Ratbane]

Adamantite = Corundum

[Ghoste]

looking at spider webs and kevlar, the reason why kevlar is used is that spider web is not very good at absorbing shock due to the flexibility of the material, unless something is done, it will not be able to stop the impact of the bullet. just think of it this way, a hammer hitting a cloth 'wall'. the 'wall' is resistant to damage as it can 'bend' to accomadate the hammer but if a person is standing behind the 'wall', the impact and shock is completely transferred. then again look at a concrete wall, smack it with a hammer it crumbles but the person behind will not feel the shock

so now imagine the kevlar to be like the concrete wall and with spider silk running thru it (like steel reinforced concrete), it becomes a composite so strong that not only it is not brittle but is also excellent in shock absorbance

*Edited, misread some of what you wrote*

This what you said here is pretty much how I understand it too. The reason webs absorb so well in nature is because they are anchored to branches, walls, or whatever the spider attaches it to, and pulled tight. Just throwing it over someone's torso all limp leaves it with a lot of give. So mixing it with kevlar, or another possibility that they suggested of modifying it to get a variant that can be stiffer when woven together en masse, adds that structure and hardness to the web.

[Ghoste]

Adamantite = Corundum

I understand how corundum is a very hard substance...perhaps you can expand how else it resembles adamantine. Corundum, even though containing aluminum, seems more akin to gems than metal ore to me.

[Pwesiela]

As high as steel? Nope, even higher. Some species' webs measure at five times the tensile strength of steel. Here's an article about a company in Montreal that has successfully modified goats to produce spider web proteins in their milk for industrial use. They talk about plans for making a lightweight kevlar-spider web body armor forthe US army.

Ghoste, it looks like that article was written on January 18, 2002. They may have plans, but is there anything more recent that expresses their having done so?

[Ghoste]

Ghoste, it looks like that article was written on January 18, 2002. They may have plans, but is there anything more recent that expresses their having done so?

Good catch. I'll look into that, as I'm curious myself.

I once mentioned a similar idea about modifying milk glands in a biology class I took. My idea was about mixing cocoa bean dna into cow milk glands. That way you just give the cow's udder a shake before milking and you get chocolate milk. My teacher said if I ever followed a career in biology that I would end up getting burned at thestake by angry mobs.

In any case, here's a link to the website of the company mentioned in the article.

[HumanJHawkins]

<cut>But Aranticus doesn't think so. Fair enough. I won't push the issue any further for you then.

Nice straw man there Ghoste. Lol. You should be a politician.