15/1 or 12/4?

[Premier]

15 Paladin / 1 Fighter or 12 Paladin / 4 Fighter?

I feel DDO will start to favor straight classes as we reach the 20th lvl cap, therefore I'm in favor of 15/1 at the current cap. Although, if one would like to increase their DPS at current cap then 12/4 is a better choice through more offensive Fighter feats.

But my multiclass characters have been burned before by DDO and I'm not about to touch the hot stove again to see if it's cool. I'm going to stay as close to straight class as possible. Who knows though, I could get burned again by not having a 20th lvl Paladin! All of us multiclass makers could!

There's no way DDO can continue to have everyone make the same builds (i.e. 6 Ranger / 10 X). There has to be a balance. I read a post yesterday mentioning the next cap should (could, may) take into account all the easily attainable 70+ AC Monks making a FP wearing AC tank build next to useless in end game content. I feel the way DDO will stop that is to make incredibly rediculous lvl 19 and 20 abilities for straight classes (I say 19 and 20 because of the 15/1 current cap split I'm referring too, wishful thinking, it'll probably only be lvl 20 I must like being burned).

I've only played EQ2 other than DDO and EQ2 was very balanced; much more so relative to DDO. EQ2 had only straight classes but then they released an "enhancement" type system that one chose a particular path to specialize in (i.e. Strength / Agility / Constitution etc. focuses) with each path having granted abilities. Instantly the "best path" for each class was identified; much like Dwarven "anything" for more HP in DDO, dual wielding Tempest anything, etc and EQ2 became slightly imbalanced. EQ2 was able to better balance this in future mods; but I didn't return to EQ2 for very long to see how it totally played out. DDO is better so I came home . Straight classes are what make other MMO's balanced IMO; that's why I feel DDO will favor them more at max cap.

And that's why I'm going with the 15/1 split at current cap. Oh, and also for max ranks in intimidate; but I figured anyone reading this would already know that . Peace!

-Premier

[Borror0]

I feel DDO will start to favor straight classes as we reach the 20th lvl cap, therefore I'm in favor of 15/1 at the current cap.

Most likely, it's the opposite that will happen. Rather than pushing the bonuses towards pure class, the bonuses will be pushed towards deep multiclasses. Look right now, what are the coolest builds? 10 XXX/6 ranger, 10 fighter/6 paladin, etc. The effect that PrE will have is nothing put thatm making level 6 more attractive. And then, there will be tier II at level 12!!! So, 12/6 and poissbly 6/6/6 builds will be hot!

Now, the real question is: Are they going to add a tier III at level 18? Hopefuly, yes. That way, you increase greatly the viability of about any build. Near pure builds with a small splash will be better. Also, pure builds will be better if there is something worth it at level 18, because it will add to whatever bonus they'll also get at level 20. And then, you made deep multiclass also very attraying.

But if they are no tier III PrE, I doubt pure builds will be that good.

If I were Eladrin, I'd start planning Tier I to III PrEs for every melee classes. (Non-hydrid spellcasters all have reasons to keep going to level 20, or near to it. Thus, it's less pressing.) I'd design Pre for fighters, barbarians and paladins, from tier I to III. Then, I'd also plan all the way to tier III for existing PrEs (bard, rangers and rogues). (As for monks, I see their stances as their PrE. Monks need balancing in other ways than PrE, if you ask me.)

There is no need to code them all for Module 9 (althought it is self-evident that it should be done if possible), just plan them. They could make the announcement that all classes (but maybe monks - they could always something like Master of Fists, Master of Blades and Master of the Stick) will get three tier of a PrE:

• Tier I at level 6
• Tier II at level 12
• Tier III at level 18.

Then, 'all' they would have to do would be to describe the purppose of every PrE (this one is for Intimitank, this one is for...) and release a few Tier III so players could judge of their power. The important part here, from Turbine, is to not inflate any values. to not go trigger happy giving too many overpowered ability to everyone because otherwise it will backfire to them and, at the same time, make sure tier Is are not too powerful so that players should just make 6/6/6 builds or that tier III are so powerful that anyone without a tier II is a Gimp... because both are two highly undesirable effects.

I read a post yesterday mentioning the next cap should (could, may) take into account all the easily attainable 70+ AC Monks making a FP wearing AC tank build next to useless in end game content. I feel the way DDO will stop that is to make incredibly rediculous lvl 19 and 20 abilities for straight classes (I say 19 and 20 because of the 15/1 current cap split I'm referring too, wishful thinking, it'll probably only be lvl 20

That would be riddiculously stupid from them.

Whoever will do that should be fired right away because all of his work will be as stupid and poorly thought, no doubt.

Multiclassing is something common in both DDO and 3.5 D&D. As a good developer, you should strive to make all type of build attraying. You should try to put incitative for people to multiclass and also incitative for them to stay pure. However, you have to keep this balanced! You don't balance at a class at level 20!! You don't tell yourself that it's ok to let a class suck from level 11 to 19 and except people to be happy when you make pure builds better, only!!

That would be attrociously idiotic.

Not only that, but it's stupid to fight something overpowered and unbalancing by boosting other clases into undesirable inflation and forcing them into over specialisation. Boosting players to balance for a too powerful ability? No problem. I'm totally OK. Critical Rage II was powerful, but it can be containted within acceptable power levels with proper content balancing (ie making trash mobs DPSable again). If containted within acceptable power levels, then it becomes a very powerful enhancement but it's not gamebreaking: the only advantage it gives is a very high DPS to one class.

That can easily be fixed by boosting the rest of the classes.

However, something like a creating builds that can acheive 70 AC while being Str-based TWF is not fixable by boosts!! Even if you do so, you'll just move the problem elsewhere. the solution will have to include some nerfs, at the least. Kill Favored Defense! Kill the AC bonus on Tempest I. Change the bonus type on Icy Rainment to am unstackable currently not existing bonus in DDO and add gear of that bonud type. And then, improve Shield Mastery and Improved Shield Mastery. Implement Greater Shield Mastery. Then, boost S&B by itself without the need of feats. The best bet would be 1.25 Str at level 11. That would slightly help, but I'm sure there are other good ideas for that outside.

Fact is, fixing the imbalance cannot be fixed by boosting classes. It's S&B and ThF that have became too weak. You got to lower TWF's AC potential to a few points below what S&B can acheive. You got to increase the DPS out-put of ThF to higher than TWF (probably by adding damaging enchantment like Holy and Flaming on glancing blows) without making the DPS out-put of S&B too insignificant or nerfing TWF into oblivion.

Fixing a class at level 20, is simply going to upset people. Nothing more, nothing less!

[maddmatt70]

I actually hope for multi classing to continue to get some love as well as pure classes. One of the advantages of this mmo over others is that you can build a variety of characters. You don't have to make one character template for each character, but rather you can make whatever you want. If they were to greatly favor pure classes this advantage starts to fade from the game.

[Borror0]

I actually hope for multi classing to continue to get some love as well as pure classes. One of the advantages of this mmo over others is that you can build a variety of characters. You don't have to make one character template for each character, but rather you can make whatever you want. If they were to greatly favor pure classes this advantage starts to fade from the game.

I find that I'm unusually agreeing often with you lately.

[sirgog]

I find that I'm unusually agreeing often with you lately.

Ditto.

[Premier]

If they push for deep multiclassing then I'm golden! Most of my characters deeply multiclassed. I find that to be the most interesting aspect of DDO and DnD.

If not, I'll have this 15/1 Paladin that should survive all the future mods.

If you (anyone reading this) could rebuild a Paladin to lvl 20 what would you choose? Planning for the unknown, say deep multiclassing becomes the best way of building an effective Paladin; what would you go with?

6 Ranger / 14 Paladin 2WF Dwarf Khoepsh user?
6 Ranger / 2 Rogue / 12 Paladin same as above but enough DEX to fill out a +5 MBP?
Maybe an evasion battle sorc with rediculous saves? (The RPing of that is a little wacky but hey!)
Just tossing out ideas

Since Paladins have not gotten the love that other classes have received I believe they'll totally boost up whatever Paladin enhancements paths they decide to implement. The DEVs heard the cries (cries as in yells, I'm not saying your all little kids; well maybe some, not meant to be flaming)of the Rangers and the got Tempest which we know to be the pinacle of any 2WF build. It'll be chaos if Tempest is nerfed (I do believe it's way overpowered)! It seems they'll have to implement something equally as powerful for other melee builds. With Paladins left on the list to enhance I really think they'll crank any enhancements way up.

That's why I'm thinking pure melee classes may be more favorable (or at last to lvl 18 like Borror0 suggested for development).

Either way I hope the development teams nails the next mods. I have plenty of characters to cover my bases for the next mod. I shouldn't have all gimped characters! Peace!

-Premier

BTW: 15/1 or 12/4? Or something better based on current content I didn't think of. Peace!

-Premier