Destroying The Plat Farmer Economy

[Anastasios]

So our economics are a bit off to a degree and I was thinking there should be a way we can actually put a value on items to make amends for some of the over-inflated prices the average plat farmer may put a price on the AH.

It incorporates a price-check value system based on averages determined by the community, we all have ideas as to what so and so should cost and what we feel we should expect in return. Think of it as a DDO Blue Book, where a fair amount of the community is involved as to what value is in regards to specific items.

The system will require a bit of coordination, and I expect to have a template for a list of items where people could put what they think the worth of each item is (thinking just a plain spreadsheet, enter values and send back...extreme over and under values would be discarded of course unless there are multiple amounts of these values thus calling for their incorporation in the average)...Then along the way, it becomes sort of an up and down market for all the items which people feel have a really good value as sometime along the road items do not have great demand, some keep their demand and others increase their demand.

It's a bit controlling to a degree but in the long run we have a better way of understanding specific values of an item...it also would be a great resource for people who are trading items and wondering what exactly they could happen to get. Last but not least, it would be doing a disservice to our plat farmer friends who think that they can get insane amounts of gold for putting up their items on the AH.

Eventually I would hope it would be a sticky on our Marketplace and if other servers wanted to get involved in on the process we could easily seperate by server and do an overall average throughout the game. Once again this system though would require the help of many players to help with the best sort of average on each item.

The first order of business though would be a list, it could start off as a short list to experiment with or a complete long list of everything that is worthwhile in the game.

So the purpose of this thread is to see what sort of interest people would have for a system as such and further discussion as to better ideas or ways to address this sort of tactic.

[reefhut]

I think I like this idea

[DoctorWhofan]

I do too, but why did you post it on the Argo forums? Move it to the general forums for greater response and feedback.

At worst case, A blue book will not stop the inflation posts at the autionhouse, but will help new people (and vets) make better and more informed choices when purchancing items off the AH. And posting.

I dunno how that will stop the Plat farmers directly, I suspect majority of the inflated AH items are from other players. However, with prices more managable, the temptation to buy plat would be lessened.

[Stormanne]

Yes, by all means, post, copy and paste this to the general. Its a good idea. Be ready for a storm of criticism for but stick to your guns. Its a really good idea.

[Samadhi]

At any given time, I have ~15-20 items on the AH for FAR more than they are worth. Why? Looted something cool and no backspace for it. Pretty sure I want to keep this item, but if someone wants it THAT bad, they can have it. I really don't think selling goods at high prices is what is making the plat market survive; and generally would vote against anything like this in favor of a more laissez faire attitude. I don't know who bought a white dragon scale for 2milpp from me - but I'm glad they did - and see no reason for a standard grid to say they shouldn't have.

[Anastasios]

At any given time, I have ~15-20 items on the AH for FAR more than they are worth. Why? Looted something cool and no backspace for it. Pretty sure I want to keep this item, but if someone wants it THAT bad, they can have it. I really don't think selling goods at high prices is what is making the plat market survive; and generally would vote against anything like this in favor of a more laissez faire attitude. I don't know who bought a white dragon scale for 2milpp from me - but I'm glad they did - and see no reason for a standard grid to say they shouldn't have.

That's fair, noone is going to tell you how to price items you sell, I would imagine deviation anyways, it would purely be for reference as the community can't control what you do...but then again it may change your habits as it would change the buying and selling habits of others if there was a blueprint on pricing.

[woodrick]

It would stop vet players taking advantage of new players. that is what most of the criticism is going to be about. Argo does have a worse economy than other servers, i used to play on khyber and brought an item with me that was worth 25-50kpp on khyber and made 300kpp on the AH in Argo (vet player taking advantage i'll admit it). The main problem with Argo is the large variance in the competence levels of the players. on one hand you have a small group of players that regularly run high level stuff for loot to sell, then on the other you have the group of players that still can not finish the new raids not mention the players that have just joint the game, i have recently been in groups where TS norm was a challenge for 10 of the 12 players (used to 3man it on elite when the cap was lvl10 i know turbine has made changes) and end up having to buy the loot pulled by the better players. as the better players have generally inflated the price of the item some 200-300% new/casual players have to find plat from somewhere, whether this is from the stuff they have spent hours trying to accumulate, selling an item they pull for an inflated price or buying plat. Standardising or putting a post somewhere for players to look at and c what a sensible price for an item is will effect the plat farmers more than people are giving Anastasios credit for, lower the prices of items i doubt plat farmers can read so they will have no idea and no one will purchase their items in the AH, lower item prices also mean people will be less inclined to purchase plat because with sensible prices items will become affordable to new/casual players. if as a vet player u think lower prices are cheating you trade the item instead of selling at the inflated prices currently seen on the AH, or as u possibly have enough maybe help someone out by giving it to them (very unAmerican i know, but i'm not from america so i have different morals).

i like Anastasios's idea and will support it as much as i can.

Beni

[Kistilan]

I do too, but why did you post it on the Argo forums? Move it to the general forums for greater response and feedback.

At worst case, A blue book will not stop the inflation posts at the autionhouse, but will help new people (and vets) make better and more informed choices when purchancing items off the AH. And posting.

I dunno how that will stop the Plat farmers directly, I suspect majority of the inflated AH items are from other players. However, with prices more managable, the temptation to buy plat would be lessened.

Anastasios, I think this is a great idea.

Doc, although we can only hope to change the entire DDO community, I believe that the Argonnessen Forums are a first line to taking up a new call. The entire community of Argonnessen seems to lead on a cutting edge of ideas - dare I say visionary? If any server is up to making the change, Argonnessen (who luckily enherited probably the best-suited kindred server ever, Mabar) will answer the call first.

By all means bring this idea to the general forums.

In the meantime, get Davey & others involved to bring this economic value system to a ground zero start. I would likely suspect guys like Ugghh, Ramses & Aspenor to have quite a lot to say here.

[Erekose]

So are you saying that we move from a free market economy to a player regulated economy?

What happens if that system becomes corrupted by those who create it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpKRd2xQeq8

[Nirvana]

The economic value system of this game was destroyed long time ago, since module one when some people were selling stack of chill shards. It got worse once the AH system came out. The unlimited amount of plat these people had been "saving" finally got chance to be spent. A lot of players made a lot of cash all of sudden, and someones made a lot more. Millions of millions. Turbines finally realized their code flaw and situation of economy, they came up with a solution to make it worse. "Let's give them all they want." Vorpals, smiters, disruptors, etc, you want it? You got it!

So economic value system is totally f'ed.

[LA_MIKE]

..

[Vhlad]

So our economics are a bit off to a degree and I was thinking there should be a way we can actually put a value on items to make amends for some of the over-inflated prices the average plat farmer may put a price on the AH.

It incorporates a price-check value system based on averages determined by the community, we all have ideas as to what so and so should cost and what we feel we should expect in return. Think of it as a DDO Blue Book, where a fair amount of the community is involved as to what value is in regards to specific items.

The system will require a bit of coordination, and I expect to have a template for a list of items where people could put what they think the worth of each item is (thinking just a plain spreadsheet, enter values and send back...extreme over and under values would be discarded of course unless there are multiple amounts of these values thus calling for their incorporation in the average)...Then along the way, it becomes sort of an up and down market for all the items which people feel have a really good value as sometime along the road items do not have great demand, some keep their demand and others increase their demand.

It's a bit controlling to a degree but in the long run we have a better way of understanding specific values of an item...it also would be a great resource for people who are trading items and wondering what exactly they could happen to get. Last but not least, it would be doing a disservice to our plat farmer friends who think that they can get insane amounts of gold for putting up there items on the AH.

Eventually I would hope it would be a sticky on our Marketplace and if other servers wanted to get involved in on the process we could easily seperate by server and do an overall average throughout the game. Once again this system though would require the help of many players to help with the best sort of average on each item.

The first order of business though would be a list, it could start off as a short list to experiment with or a complete long list of everything that is worthwhile in the game.

So the purpose of this thread is to see what sort of interest people would have for a system as such and further discussion as to better ideas or ways to address this sort of tactic.

The value of an item is best determined by free market forces. A controlled or regulated market is a step backwards.

[Nirvana]

Free market also needs regulation.

[Spisey]

I'm all for it. I try to be reasonable with my ah prices and have a pretty decent pulse on what is reasonable for the things I pull and buy. Great to see this expressed on argo since the prices fluctuate so widely that you have to wonder if people even look at the other similar items before posting. A very righteous cause which hopefully helps and is not polluted by negativity. If you need help lemme know I would be all for this....

[branmakmuffin]

The value of an item is best determined by free market forces. A controlled or regulated market is a step backwards.

There is no such thing as a "free market." Whatever form the market exists in and however much "freedom" it has is determined by the government which regulates it. Turbine is the government which regulates Stormreach's economy. And it has even more power over that economy than a RL government has over a RL economy (which means any attempts to analogize Stormreach's economy to any RL economy are 100% inapt).

[Kistilan]

There is no such thing as a "free market." Whatever form the market exists in and however much "freedom" it has is determined by the government which regulates it. Turbine is the government which regulates Stormreach's economy. And it has even more power over that economy than a RL government has over a RL economy (which means any attempts to analogize Stormreach's economy to any RL economy are 100% inapt).

I think that we're aiming for inapt or inept or whatever you're trying to say is moot. It'll be ok, doom is our bedfellow, which is why this idea has intrigued.

[seldarin]

Sound idea in principle, however the key thing that needs to be addressed is the player mentality when posting something on the AH.

For example, one poster stated that someone paid 2mill PP for a scale, would he have paid that much for it? Short answer is no. If you wouldnt pay x for an item yourself, then why post it on the AH for an extremely exorbitant amount. Is Plat in that short a supply in the game that you need to rip off other players? There may have been a newish player that was desperate for that last scale to complete their much needed armor for a toon, but because they havent been playing for 2 years didnt have that much cash saved up, as opposed to someone else that had millions lying around.

Its almost like RL, the rich get richer, the haves vs the havenots. As stated in another post, the majority of overinflated prices on the AH are by other players screwing over their fellow players.

Put a thought to this scenario, you want to run VOD or Hound on elite, just and example, and you are hard pressed getting that cleric you need/want because you want them to have 10-20 mana potions. They dont have the potions because you have been busy putting them on AH for prices that make people decide not to buy them. You either spent extra time waiting for someone who does have it, or you wipe in the quest because they didnt have it. Just an example to put forward my point about unscrupulous players that are only in it to screw as much as they can out of everyone, and arent really doing a community approach.

What does all that extra plat get you? If you are only questing to get stuff to put on AH, and you arent buying anything, what is the point to overinflating your prices? Last time i checked there wasnt a leaderboard for who has the most plat or who is the bill gates of DDO.

Agreed plat farmers have high prices, but to be honest the players that do this far outweigh anything a plat farmer could do.

Nice idea in principle, in practice player mentality needs to be changed before it would be successful.

[Erekose]

There is no such thing as a "free market." Whatever form the market exists in and however much "freedom" it has is determined by the government which regulates it. Turbine is the government which regulates Stormreach's economy. And it has even more power over that economy than a RL government has over a RL economy (which means any attempts to analogize Stormreach's economy to any RL economy are 100% inapt).

Yeah, yeah, yeah... semantics's, who cares about your hair splitting arguments, go find a girlfriend.

Anyway if Turbine is the Mint which makes the money for the games are the Plat farmers like the Chinese printing plants duplicating USD currency and flooding the Asian market with USD forgeries?

[branmakmuffin]

Yeah, yeah, yeah... semantics's, who cares about your hair splitting arguments

The entire population of the universe, minus you.

Anyway if Turbine is the Mint which makes the money for the games are the Plat farmers like the Chinese printing plants duplicating USD currency and flooding the Asian market with USD forgeries?

Plat farmers are like counterfeiters, so yes.

[Kistilan]

The entire population of the universe, minus you.


Plat farmers are like counterfeiters, so yes.

huh!? So what you're saying is there's a game of Mahjong or Soduku going around Stormreach Proper and I haven't been told WHERE this is? And also, that there's a way to hack it to guarantee 100% payout every time? Sounds like we need a hotfix if that's how the Platfarmers were making money by counterfitting. I mean, that's *obviously* wrong. To think, all these years I thought they were running around buying and selling items for insane amounts of plat, turning around and selling the plat on their servers. I had no idea they were actually counterfitting plat! That *does* make me angry. I want to be part of the Stormreach Mint too!!!