Surprized by the continued bias against rogues

[Credinus]

I play a pure rogue that is excellent at traps, doors, wanding, and sneak attacks. I don't have much trouble getting into groups, perhaps because I'm on Cannith and it's got a higher population of new players who aren't concerned as much with min/maxing. What I have definitely noticed, though, is that the unique role rogues should have really doesn't come up very often in the game (as has already been mentioned in the thread). Rogues should be highly desired for disarming traps and picking locks; it's what really makes them unique. Just like fighters have a plethora of weapons and combat boosts to their name, clerics have great healing and buffs to their name, etc... Unfortunately, there are a lot of quests where the uniqueness of a rogue isn't necessary.

For instance, there are a lot of unpickable locks, which I personally believe should be extremely rare. Even boss chests should be pickable before the boss is killed... Sure, give these formerly-unpickable chests high DC's, but if it means a rogue built to fill its unique role can save the party (or itself) some time in completing the quest, it's totally worth it. Secondly, most traps can easily be avoided or do minimal damage. So, when it comes down to it, the things that a rogue should be highly sought after for are actually just bonuses for having them in the party if they can provide high DPS/tanking/whatever as well. It should really be the other way around.

And I also find it humorous that people hold such strong grudges against rogues because of people who play them incompetently when, in actuality, they are the class that has the least effect on the group for being played poorly outside of trap disarming. A cleric that can't keep up with heals? Dead party. A tank that can't hold aggro? Dead party. A sorcerer/wizard with no spell points? Contributes nothing. A damage dealer than can't deal high DPS? Usually ends in a dead party. A rogue that can't pick a lock/disarm a trap/provide support damage? A little less loot/a bit of extra damage/slightly longer fights. And I gotta tell 'ya... I've seen every other class played incompetently far more often than I have seen them played well. I've gotten to where I actually -prefer- cleric hirelings over PC ones because 9 out of 10 that I end up with tend to blow through their spell points so fast on unnecessary heals and buffs that they have none left when it comes time for a big fight. Sorcerers and wizards are the same way, most of them I end up with are out of spell points by the end of the first fight. That doesn't mean they're all played poorly, I've played with some played very well. And I would never consider refusing a class because I've had bad experiences with them in the past. If they do poorly, whatever... I just give them some pointers and send them off on their way after the first quest (instead of yell at them and kick them out abruptly like some group leaders have a tendency to do).

Anyway, my point is that it would definitely be nice to see more unpickable locks become pickable and more traps become more painful.

[malaky]

I play a pure rogue that is excellent at traps, doors, wanding, and sneak attacks. I don't have much trouble getting into groups, perhaps because I'm on Cannith and it's got a higher population of new players who aren't concerned as much with min/maxing. What I have definitely noticed, though, is that the unique role rogues should have really doesn't come up very often in the game (as has already been mentioned in the thread). Rogues should be highly desired for disarming traps and picking locks; it's what really makes them unique. Just like fighters have a plethora of weapons and combat boosts to their name, clerics have great healing and buffs to their name, etc... Unfortunately, there are a lot of quests where the uniqueness of a rogue isn't necessary.

For instance, there are a lot of unpickable locks, which I personally believe should be extremely rare. Even boss chests should be pickable before the boss is killed... Sure, give these formerly-unpickable chests high DC's, but if it means a rogue built to fill its unique role can save the party (or itself) some time in completing the quest, it's totally worth it. Secondly, most traps can easily be avoided or do minimal damage. So, when it comes down to it, the things that a rogue should be highly sought after for are actually just bonuses for having them in the party if they can provide high DPS/tanking/whatever as well. It should really be the other way around.

And I also find it humorous that people hold such strong grudges against rogues because of people who play them incompetently when, in actuality, they are the class that has the least effect on the group for being played poorly outside of trap disarming. A cleric that can't keep up with heals? Dead party. A tank that can't hold aggro? Dead party. A sorcerer/wizard with no spell points? Contributes nothing. A damage dealer than can't deal high DPS? Usually ends in a dead party. A rogue that can't pick a lock/disarm a trap/provide support damage? A little less loot/a bit of extra damage/slightly longer fights. And I gotta tell 'ya... I've seen every other class played incompetently far more often than I have seen them played well. I've gotten to where I actually -prefer- cleric hirelings over PC ones because 9 out of 10 that I end up with tend to blow through their spell points so fast on unnecessary heals and buffs that they have none left when it comes time for a big fight. Sorcerers and wizards are the same way, most of them I end up with are out of spell points by the end of the first fight. That doesn't mean they're all played poorly, I've played with some played very well. And I would never consider refusing a class because I've had bad experiences with them in the past. If they do poorly, whatever... I just give them some pointers and send them off on their way after the first quest (instead of yell at them and kick them out abruptly like some group leaders have a tendency to do).

Anyway, my point is that it would definitely be nice to see more unpickable locks become pickable and more traps become more painful.

Probably a bad idea. It would just hurt rogues; think of all the traps that you need to run through in order to disarm the trap.

[whysper]

No bias on Cannith! In fact, about 1/3 of the population has a Rogue level because they could not get into the one locked door in the rescue otherwise...

[Kalari]

True story this happened the other night and my guildies got a good laugh out of it.

Im leveling a pure rogue elf chick wont lie she is very twinked tomes gear and the like. Im running around selling stuff and get a tell "Vons 4?" Well you all know how I feel about that series and considering she is still on part two thanks to drop group idiots I mulled over joining. Then I remembered how when I first started ddo Kal would jump into any part of vons to help players out. So with that spirit I said "sure."

I get in and they start explaining to me that there are traps in this quest...thats the first sign I should have taken that it was gonna be one of those rogues can only do X groups. I suffered threw them bragging about gear listened to them talk about game things that they clearly had no clue on and went inside. Had several helpers on where the boxes were there may have been 2 I didnt immediately see due to that grey wall thing messing with my eyes. But I had found the boxes so when I have that problem I normally just backspace to find the control panel. I go to shut off other traps and get told "hey your going to wrong way..." I said "no going to shut off the other traps.." Oh okay.. Then I wanted to shrine "hey thats the wrong way again.." I guess rogues arent allowed to shrine either?" Yeah it was snarky but **** they were wearing on my nerves at this point.

But that wasnt even the best part after finding and disabling the force trap in the hidden shrine which I had to be informed was behind the shrines I got told to: Stay behind and get the lever after we finish taking down the golems...

>,< *MAJOR HEADACHE*

Three of the guys had no freaking clue on what weapons you needed to take down the golems. One kept yelling over mic to the wizard to force missle the golems which they are immune to. I stand there dumbfounded because I had not only two adamantium weapons I could have used but also two finessable smiters. But whatever they wanted me to babysit the lever. Rogues can only do that and traps dont you know...

Needless to say I dont think my girl will be joining groups that send her tells anymore my nerves are still shaken from the attitude of that group.

[blackrazer]

I rolled rogue as my first toon (bad idea for someone new to ddo, but my friends needed one who was willing to learn *fast*) and I've had my share of experiences. Only time I've been a "problem" was during Church and the Cult when I was level 8 and didn't have all the highest +skill items to spot/search/disable traps. But that really wasn't a problem in all reality because the group just ran through EVERY. SINGLE. TRAP. while the clerics in the group both died to a trap at different times because they STOOD IN THE TRAP. They all died in the ice mephit room due to running straight in and getting out of sight of the clerics, who then died because there were no tanks or damage... Since that run, I've respecced mechanic (just to be safe) and spent close to 200k on the auction house buying various +7/10 (now all +10) items and done other runs. No problems anymore with traps and I still lead the kill count in top 2 usually when I can sneak attack. But I've been dropped from a group because I'm
"squishy" and the "tank" of the group couldn't hold aggro, so even while I was switching from mob to mob every couple of swings, I was still dying because my damage output with sneak attacks in my gimp specced rogue with subtle backstabbing was higher than what he was accomplishing via hate.

In PnP, my DMs would never allow this sort of thing. If the rogue wasn't allowed to be a rogue, they'd find a way to make sure all of the other guys BUT the rogue died and had to remake and inform them as to why said rogue lived while all the others died.

But back to the main point, yes, people are on a time constraint sometimes, but dammit, how long does it take to disarm a trap if you're going to take the time to bring a rogue? I always let groups know that I'm new to the game and don't know where everything is yet and the first question is how high my rogue skills are, to which they're amazed by my response most times, but then they proceed to zerg the run anyways, only stopping for a trap or open lock that's key to getting a chest of some sort. It gets tiresome and I really hate the misconception that rogues *need* to top dps in order to provide anything to the group (which is why I'm rerolling once I get a bit more of the game under my belt). But I did this zerging thing in WoW, to the point where I quit it, and when people zerg things without fully understanding the effects it has on everyone through the chain of support, bad things happen. Hell, out of my group of friends that play, I'm the guy who figures out how things work or how to pull stuff (took me 5 minutes to figure out the Ghost of a Chance puzzle). But in some of the groups I've been in lately, I wouldn't have been given the time or would have been told to not touch anything while the "veterans" did everything.

I guess that's all to my rant. But really, there needs to be a way to emphasize that rogues are more viable than people seem to think.

[Credinus]

I rolled rogue as my first toon (bad idea for someone new to ddo, but my friends needed one who was willing to learn *fast*) and I've had my share of experiences. Only time I've been a "problem" was during Church and the Cult when I was level 8 and didn't have all the highest +skill items to spot/search/disable traps. But that really wasn't a problem in all reality because the group just ran through EVERY. SINGLE. TRAP. while the clerics in the group both died to a trap at different times because they STOOD IN THE TRAP. They all died in the ice mephit room due to running straight in and getting out of sight of the clerics, who then died because there were no tanks or damage... Since that run, I've respecced mechanic (just to be safe) and spent close to 200k on the auction house buying various +7/10 (now all +10) items and done other runs. No problems anymore with traps and I still lead the kill count in top 2 usually when I can sneak attack. But I've been dropped from a group because I'm
"squishy" and the "tank" of the group couldn't hold aggro, so even while I was switching from mob to mob every couple of swings, I was still dying because my damage output with sneak attacks in my gimp specced rogue with subtle backstabbing was higher than what he was accomplishing via hate.

In PnP, my DMs would never allow this sort of thing. If the rogue wasn't allowed to be a rogue, they'd find a way to make sure all of the other guys BUT the rogue died and had to remake and inform them as to why said rogue lived while all the others died.

But back to the main point, yes, people are on a time constraint sometimes, but dammit, how long does it take to disarm a trap if you're going to take the time to bring a rogue? I always let groups know that I'm new to the game and don't know where everything is yet and the first question is how high my rogue skills are, to which they're amazed by my response most times, but then they proceed to zerg the run anyways, only stopping for a trap or open lock that's key to getting a chest of some sort. It gets tiresome and I really hate the misconception that rogues *need* to top dps in order to provide anything to the group (which is why I'm rerolling once I get a bit more of the game under my belt). But I did this zerging thing in WoW, to the point where I quit it, and when people zerg things without fully understanding the effects it has on everyone through the chain of support, bad things happen. Hell, out of my group of friends that play, I'm the guy who figures out how things work or how to pull stuff (took me 5 minutes to figure out the Ghost of a Chance puzzle). But in some of the groups I've been in lately, I wouldn't have been given the time or would have been told to not touch anything while the "veterans" did everything.

I guess that's all to my rant. But really, there needs to be a way to emphasize that rogues are more viable than people seem to think.

I have shared similar experiences with people zerging right through traps. Even had a party member reply to someone asking me in party chat to point out traps ahead of time because they had never done the quest before, "You'll find them when I run through them." Now, luckily, that person was a monk and traps didn't do much to them, but still... I think it's better on Cannith because, as I mentioned before, most people are still new. I already see in the LFG panel, though, that the higher level groups are definitely anti-rogue. Why? Because most of them have already run the quests multiple time, so they just want to get through it as quickly as possible to get their xp and loot, since they've already done an "enjoyment" run of the quest in the past. I don't blame them for that, but I think it would be a big help to rogues if training in search/disarm reduced the amount of time it takes to perform the actions. If you're in a trap-heavy instance, you could easily add several extra minutes (which doesn't seem like much, but in a group that's just repeating the quest for xp and loot and the total time is probably 10 minutes without the trap disarming, it's a lot) from searching and disarming. Shortening the time to perform those actions could really go a long way, I believe.

Also, your experience resonates my previous post about a rogue not performing his job well not crippling a group nearly as badly as other roles. A tank complaining because he "can't hold the aggro?" Okay, fine, but don't complain that the rogue is taking too long to do his job if you can't do your own. Just like clerics... I love seeing haste buffs at the beginning of the quest that expire before anyone even reaches any enemies... Wasted spell points. Or having about 25% SP and there being wounded party members, but then resting at a shrine without using remaining SP to heal everyone first. The fact is, every class can be played poorly, and there's just no justification to refuse a class because you've had bad experiences with it in the past. But, you gotta love when groups request you for the sole purpose of disarming traps/opening locks, and you do that well and -STILL- have one of, if not the, top kill counts at the end of the quest.

But I definitely think shortening the time for search and disable could make rogues more viable in late-game loot/xp runs. I also don't understand why there isn't at least a feat or enhancement that lets rogues use items like doors, valves, chests, levers, and the like without breaking stealth, but that's a different story.

[Gorstag]

What's wrong with zerging through traps, my main is a rogue and I still prefere to run through them. Makes less time to get back into combat wich is where my rogue belongs. Don't get me wrong, I COULD disarm them, but it is SOOOO time consuming.

[HumanJHawkins]

Well, Sort of anyways.
I just need to vent. It is amazing to me that I can get my sorcerer into a shroud easier than I can get my rogue into a party sometimes. Last night I watched the LFM page for 30 minutes, trying to find something to do. I saw 3 lvl approperate groups form up. All 3 had no more than 3 members in them with no rogue or anyone with any rogue skills (ok, I don't much like the "we don't need a rogue, I've got 2 lvls of rogue to get any traps" mentality, but it is what it is.) and the LFM's on all three groups were looking for all classes except rogue! One of the Groups was running HIPS for XP to boot. I almost sent them a tell saying "You want XP from HIPS, yet you don't want the extra 15% a rogue would get you?". I think the best part was that after 30 min. all three groups still had their LFM's up. Finally, the HIPS group changed their LFM to include a rogue. I joined, but the leader of the group pretty much did nothing to hide his dislike of rogues, and basically ran though any traps. When it came time to do the swim, he said in a very unconfident tone, that he would "try" to do the swim for us. I said "Let me, I have Evasion/Improved Evasion, and a great reflex, the swim will be nothing for me" His response "It has Nothing to do with Evasion: It's all about Timing". So I gave him a Headstart, followed him in, swam past him 3 times ( got turned around and accidently got back to the start, and started over) and still beat him to the valve. He took almost 50% of his life in damage, I took a total of 2 HP of damage, and all he said was "Well at least the traps are down" in a disgusted tone of voice. To top it all off, in the end, I was able to keep up with him in kills, and didn't die once in the 2 quests we did, (unlike him, who went splat on more than one occasion) because anytime I got real low, I backed of and wand whipped myself back to health. (ok, the cleric did save my butt more than once, but never full on death like the party leader). Now I would normally chock this attitude up to a new or fairly new player, who has a limited understanding of rogues, but when talking to this guy about things, he had multiple shroud ready toons.
So Really, are there that many bad rogues out there that so many EXP. Players don't even want one in party? Is it really that difficult for some to accept that a rogue can do much more than pick a lock or Disable a trap? My rogue is a skills rogue first. and after Disabling the Cabal Chest Trap at Lvl 10 (ok, it was on Normal), I think I'm doing well with that, However, I'm much more than that. My kill count is usually in the top 3, I can wand whip when needed (more than once I've dropped back from a fight to help the cleric), and I'm growing to be a decent soloist as well.
I actually am growing to like soloing much better than running with groups, because, Strategy actually comes back into the game. I just ran the Tangleroot series again (I needed a Summon monsters Clickie, the only one I know of is in Tangleroot) I wasn't going to pester people into running it with me, and didn't expect to find a group that would want a level 10 rogue, So I solo'd it. While the first couple parts were easy enough, the last couple, being level 7 quests, were a bit more difficult. While I know I could have finished the series in 1 hr with a group that just wanted to zerg though it, I took my time (about 4 hrs), solo'd it, and had fun, plus got about 5K XP for it. Figuring out how to deal with a difficult part, finding a safe sport to fall back to when things got too heated, etc. etc. all those things that have gotten lost with the current predominate strategy of running full steam headlong into trouble, and letting the cleric pick up the pieces after. Most Arcanes don't even bother with CC anymore, because so few use it. same with Trap disabling. It seems most classes look at clerics and arcanes as mear buffing machines for them, and rogues don't buff, so we don't need them at all. Or is it that the major melee classes are just jealous that rogues can easily out kill them?
I guess I'm just a bit annoyed. Of my 4 toons, my Sorcerer, Cleric, Fighter, and Rogue, I feel my rogue is the most fun to play, and certainly one of my most powerful characters, but he gets the worst treatment when LFG.

Holy ****... You need to hit the return key more often.

As for your points, there are two main issues you bring up. One is that it is hard to find a group that wants to play like you. Well, that's a bummer, but it is a fact of life. The fact is that as a video game, DDO is designed to make Rogues almost completely unnecessary. And most people play this game like a video game (i.e. not as a "role-playing" game.)

If you want to role-play and take traps out, pretending that the trap needs to be disabled before you go through it, look for a perma-death guild. They might be a bit too much on the slow and role-play side of the coin, but that may be your best bet.

The second point you make is that people don't want rogues in their group. Strange... I have never had this problem with my rogues. But I design my rogues for the best DPS possible... It's no where near what a ranger can put out. But I do enough to make most groups happy. And once they have run through the traps, I disable them for XP.

When looking for a group, if you see a group looking for fighters but not rogues, just send a tell and say you can DPS like a fighter. They'll probably let you in.

[Credinus]

What's wrong with zerging through traps, my main is a rogue and I still prefere to run through them. Makes less time to get back into combat wich is where my rogue belongs. Don't get me wrong, I COULD disarm them, but it is SOOOO time consuming.

Zerging through traps is fine as long as it doesn't mean the cleric is wasting a significant amount of SP on healing the damage done. In fact, a lot of times it's necessary because so many traps are placed right next to enemies, and rogues especially have no problem with it since our saving throws against traps are through the roof. The problem is when you're running elite quests and the traps 1-2 shot some of the people running through it, and the cleric ends up blowing precious SP on healing all that damage (or even worse, someone flatout dies and there's not a shrine until much later in the quest). Maybe later levels traps don't do as significant a portion of damage, I don't know how much the damage goes up with quest levels. But I do know that I have seen elite traps on level 7 quests do over 70 damage, which is a pretty significant chunk at that level for most people.

Also, a good role to use with a rogue that a lot of people don't consider is emergency rezzing... I've run into cases a couple times where I was able to recognize that the group wasn't going to be able to handle the boss fights in a quest, so I would sit back hidden and sneak in to collect soulstones and bring them back to the shrine so that the quest could be finished in those cases. Plus I always keep a pack of cure wands to provide emergency healing when the clerics and bards are out of energy. Rogues have a lot of support uses that they can provide to groups beyond just disarming traps and opening locks.

In defense of the time constraint, though, I do think that rogues who want to do the stealth and disarm route (which I definitely prefer to do with my rogue) should definitely invest points into faster sneaking out of courtesy to your groupmates. Even 2 levels in it is enough to make it tolerable in most places.

[Tallyn]

But I design my rogues for the best DPS possible... It's no where near what a ranger can put out. But I do enough to make most groups happy. And once they have run through the traps, I disable them for XP.

If the mob is able to be sneak attacked, then you should be able to put out comparable or superior DPS to the ranger in most circumstances.

[Gorstag]

True, but my comments refere to endgame. If you can not take at least three 100 point hits and shrug it off on endgame, you need to see what you can do to get more hps or reroll.

[PatSox]

I took the time to read 99% of this thread. Why? Because I have a rogue of course. I concede it's not the greatest of rogues but its not the worst either, and I really like playing him especially now that I've retooled him as an assassin. While my rogue is my main toon, I do have a Barb that is equal, level wise, and play them equally. I have been in parties where I was ridiculed for how I played and its understandable.

Why on earth is a rogue using a Cloud Burst GS in the shroud? Well, at the time it was the best weapon I had. Not so much because I was a bad player, but rather because I hadn't put in the time to get better weapons. Sure I could have gotten something off AH but I have a problem with spending ridiculous amounts of plat on stuff I can get on my own. (I've since broke down and did just that. lol... the Irony!!!)

I got the CBGS on my second Reaver run and only my Sixth raid. And I got it as a result of a roll rather than pulling it on my own. I had been playing the game for a while (and have been playing since it was first released) and had not really pulled any usefull weapons to that point. In fact, it wasn't until last year at about this time that I pulled my first vorpal, and I still do not have a WaP of any kind. I don't have a lot of stuff I should but that made me find different ways to play and pay more attention to what I could do. I didn't really read the forums much and don't often have the time. And frankly, I don't know how anyone has the time to put in the time that has been put in on many of the toons I see.

I was running a shroud the other night and a player told us it was his 1000th overall raid. 1000!!!!!! and it was his 405th overall shroud. Frigging mind boggling!!!! Who the heck has that kind of time on their hands? 3+years of playing roughly 4 nights a week @ 2-4 hrs per and I dont even have 100 raids completions yet!!! and there are some raids I haven't even run for that matter. (not including mod 9 stuff)

I guess you could classify me as a casual player although I pretty much play nightly now. But really, this is just a game. Do we really need to take it THAT serious that were back to picking the wimpy guy last!!! Most of us that play are adults and many of us are nerds. Didn't we hate being the last one picked in dodge ball!!!

That shroud run was really the only bad experience I had. Maybe I deserved it, maybe not. But I did seek to improve him after that. I, personally would not reject a character based on class. Bad play maybe, and only if he/she was a complete tool and would not listen or cooperate with the needs of the group. Then they're on my tool list. But give a toon a chance. If their play is suspect, give them some advice on how to improve.

Otherwise before you know it, Its like professional sports. Over paid players and ridiculous ticket prices.

And the fun of the game is lost!!!


Just my 2 bits!!!

[lyros2199]

When I built my current "high" level character Vilden, (Ftr1/Rog 9) on Argonessen, I focused on traps, traps, traps and...er..traps.

It became clear - very quickly - that while at low levels this was ok, at about level 6 or so I became a liability. Nobody had to tell me this, I could tell by the stats.

So i trained out of one feat into two weapon fighting, took improved two weapon fighting when it was available to me, and have about 8 weapon sets - one for every occasion (dual giant slayer knives, double holy hammers, etc).

Now, not only am I finding all the traps but I'm keeping up in kills and also finding secret doors a lot of people didnt know were there.

Everyone wants to be the star, but sometimes, you need to diversify if you're gonna get noticed.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

I agree 100%, I have a level 16 rogue and love playing him. However as we all know a pure rogue is not a zerg type character and will not usually solo the higher level dungeons. Because of this the zergers do not like rogues and also don't really care for rangers much you will find.

The thing I love most about playinga rogue is that in DDO it is the one class that is most like pen and paper in that if in the right party truely helps the party with his/her abilities. Do what I do and ignore the haters out there and continue to love and play your rogue, I do.

Uhmm...my pure Rogue zerges (in a party) just fine. I run though a lot of Invis scrolls when I do so, but I can certainly keep up with the zergers...both in running and killing.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

zergers dont like ranger? What?! Cant solo on a ranger? Im sorry, but i believe the best time in the rainbow solo competion was all rangers. with first being 5 mins, 2nd and 3rd, 6 mins.

Please explain how rangers arent a great solo/fast paced class?

I think there is just about as much Rgr hate as there is Rog hate. Especially AA hate.
And both come from some of the same players.

Of course everyone has diferent opinions, but people see Rgrs as archers, and they think ranged is gimped. They also think Rgrs have low HP and cannot tank.
Some realise this is not always true but think it is the exception not the rule.

And of course there are those who think Rogues are for traps. And most traps are meaningless. Or that a splash Rogue is a better choice.
And they view Rogue DPS as "situational" and think those situations are few for some reason.
They also think Rogues are squishy and can't tank.

But I've always though that a Rogue played properly did not matter if he was squishy or not, cause he should never get agro to begin with. Raids may be an exception of course. Cause even the best Rogue cannot take down a raid boss fast enough to not get agro. But for most quests, there is no reason that a properly played Rogue cannot get a high kill count (and not die all the time), even if he is squishy.

Of course that may be part of the problem....few properly played Rogues.

In fact, some of those same players who disciminate are part of the problem.
They have Rogues (and Rgrs) too. And they built theirs as a squishy trap monkey, and try to tank with him....and fail.... therefore all Rogues in their mind are just as useless.

I quiete often see LFMs put up by a Rogue who has turned off the Rog icon.
I see Rgrs do this too. But also Clerics and arcanes....guess they dont want any competion.
But I think they have some perfect party mindset and think their char is only good at a certain role; and fail to see what more than one of a non-(traditional)-DPS toon can bring to a party.

[karl_k0ch]

Uhmm...my pure Rogue zerges (in a party) just fine. I run though a lot of Invis scrolls when I do so, but I can certainly keep up with the zergers...both in running and killing.

Thread necro much?

Or are you just proving the point that all of this has happened before, and it will happen again?

Nevertheless, it is interesting that the issues are still the same.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

Just realised I acidentilly necroed this thread. Sry.
I was refered to it from another current thread and got too involved reading it to remember when it was from......

Oh well. Read, comment, ignore....as you choose....sry.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

Thread necro much?

Or are you just proving the point that all of this has happened before, and it will happen again?

Like I said.

Lol... this is just too funny...

Sorry, it isn't a new thing, it comes it waves... Every so often we get a batch of really crappy rogues, and party leaders that don't have a clue... Then it gets better for a while... but...

"This has all happened before, and it will happen again..."


Evidence: Check out this post I made over 2 years ago....

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=157664

Was reading it from this one and forgot what I was reading.

Current thread is here:

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=294909

But I'd say...yes... apparently it is happening again.

[Bolo_Grubb]

play what you like, like what you play.

[Artos_Fabril]

play what you like, like what you play.

Always great advice, but it helps when other players like what you play as well. On an individual basis, you can solve this by being a good rogue: don't be squishy, don't blow boxes, don't lag behind in the kill count. But that only helps you after you're in a group, so realize also that people not willing to group with because "rouges r gimp" are probably doing you a favor.