Reaver: Lingering Questions

[Faethe]

About a week ago, my husband and I [lvl 16 paladin] were in a reaver pug. Typical makeup: A couple of clerics, a couple of casters, & assorted melee.

As I'd been instructed the 1st time I was in the raid [this was my 14th, fwiw], I stood back where most folks do, watching the tank, keeping an eye open for spot healing needs, etc.

It came time for the melee to start the full-on assault and we were advancing on the reaver, when two members of a well-known guild started talking over party chat:

A: 'I hate when people don't know what they're doing!"
B: 'Yeah - I've used way more heal scrolls than normal already.'
A: 'It doesn't work when everybody's just bouncing around like that!'

Ultimately, the reaver was defeated & the puzzle was solved. But even a week later, I find myself wondering about that run. Even though no one was singled out for criticism, I thought at the time that if there was some strategy that those players knew and had employed in the past, it might have been helpful to share it.

Should we have done something differently? Additonal? It always feels funny to just stand there until it's time to charge... if melee characters waiting in the wings should be doing something while we wait & then employing some specific tactic on the reaver, I'd appreciate the correction.

Thanks,
Faethe

[Impaqt]

About a week ago, my husband and I [lvl 16 paladin] were in a reaver pug. Typical makeup: A couple of clerics, a couple of casters, & assorted melee.

As I'd been instructed the 1st time I was in the raid [this was my 14th, fwiw], I stood back where most folks do, watching the tank, keeping an eye open for spot healing needs, etc.

It came time for the melee to start the full-on assault and we were advancing on the reaver, when two members of a well-known guild started talking over party chat:

A: 'I hate when people don't know what they're doing!"
B: 'Yeah - I've used way more heal scrolls than normal already.'
A: 'It doesn't work when everybody's just bouncing around like that!'

Ultimately, the reaver was defeated & the puzzle was solved. But even a week later, I find myself wondering about that run. Even though no one was singled out for criticism, I thought at the time that if there was some strategy that those players knew and had employed in the past, it might have been helpful to share it.

Should we have done something differently? Additonal? It always feels funny to just stand there until it's time to charge... if melee characters waiting in the wings should be doing something while we wait & then employing some specific tactic on the reaver, I'd appreciate the correction.

Thanks,
Faethe

The COmments were in Poor Taste.. If you see something that is "Wrong" its much better to instruct people on how you think it could be better than it is to make off handed remarks.

I dont see why anyone would ever use Heal Scrolls in the Reaver... Regardless of the group.... "Way More than Normal"? What would that mean? For me, ONE is way more than normal.... If a Melee wants to go play with an air elemental, go for it.. DOnt expect me to cry when your thrown out into the middle and up into the spikes or taken out though.

I'll often just go AFK when on a Melee in there if I'm not tanking.... take a Bio.. Grab a Soda... Whatever.... the first 10 Minutes is pretty boring.... If I'm not tanking, I dont expect heals from the cleric at all... Most of my characters can wand whip, or at least carry stacks of Cure potions.

Dont worry about it.

[Borror0]

It came time for the melee to start the full-on assault and we were advancing on the reaver, when two members of a well-known guild started talking over party chat:

A: 'I hate when people don't know what they're doing!"
B: 'Yeah - I've used way more heal scrolls than normal already.'
A: 'It doesn't work when everybody's just bouncing around like that!'

Well, I'd say they were getting mad because someone was stealing the aggro.

It's pretty furstrating when you're tanknig and someone keeps attacknig the Reaver although he is not supposed to tank it. If it was time for the full out attack, they were probably refering to before the lever was pulled. Anyway, like Alandale just said, it's poor taste if you only complain but don't explain why. Usually, when someone was stealing aggro from me when tanking with Borror before they changed Intimidate to a 6s cooldown, I used to stop attack, moving and Intimidating and carefuly explain why what they are doing is wrong.

Worked pretty good. Either they died or they learnt the lesson.

[Angelus_dead]

It came time for the melee to start the full-on assault and we were advancing on the reaver, when two members of a well-known guild started talking over party chat:

A: 'I hate when people don't know what they're doing!"
B: 'Yeah - I've used way more heal scrolls than normal already.'
A: 'It doesn't work when everybody's just bouncing around like that!'

That's a pretty bizzare statement. Why exactly was that guild well known?

I mean, for anyone to use a scroll of any kind in Reaver's Fate is completely mysterious and nearly inexplicable. It can only mean that the cleric was unable to get charged.

Getting charged is completely easy, but a bad player might not know how to do it if the main tank isn't staying still, and instead chases the boss around. So most likely that's what was being referred to.

[Impaqt]

That's a pretty bizzare statement. Why exactly was that guild well known?

You shouldnt judge an entire guild because of the comments of a couple individuals..... (ANd no, this wasnt people from IFV as far as I know)

[boldarblood]

A: 'I hate when people don't know what they're doing!"
B: 'Yeah - I've used way more heal scrolls than normal already.'
A: 'It doesn't work when everybody's just bouncing around like that!'

The real newb there is the one having to use heal scrolls in Reaver.

[woodrick]

using heal scrolls in the Reaver? what is the world coming to?

about the bouncing around, maybe they were referring to people standing outside the arch taking dmg. if u stand back against the barrier that drops you take no dmg when the anti-gravity effect occurs requiring the clr to only heal one person the main tank. if the clr is using scrolls then the main tank or the clr is at fault for not, allowing them to get the charge or going to get the charge. i play a clr and all to often i c the main tank running around like a chicken with it's head chopped off forcing players requiring the charge to spend far more time than is actually required out in the middle trying to get it. a simple stand still or i'm not healing u from the clr usually fixes this problem (the tank stands still or dies, if the tank dies u get a new one that does stand still).

[Impaqt]

using heal scrolls in the Reaver? what is the world coming to?

about the bouncing around, maybe they were referring to people standing outside the arch taking dmg. if u stand back against the barrier that drops you take no dmg when the anti-gravity effect occurs requiring the clr to only heal one person the main tank. if the clr is using scrolls then the main tank or the clr is at fault for not, allowing them to get the charge or going to get the charge. i play a clr and all to often i c the main tank running around like a chicken with it's head chopped off forcing players requiring the charge to spend far more time than is actually required out in the middle trying to get it. a simple stand still or i'm not healing u from the clr usually fixes this problem (the tank stands still or dies, if the tank dies u get a new one that does stand still).

People standing inthe arch is thenumber one cause of Problems inthe Reaver.... The Reaver aggros on the first one on the ground after his reverse gravity.... You may not take damage, but your hit the ground a couple seconds before the tank which causes the reaver to atack the person who was hanging out inthe arch before the tank even gets back onthe ground.

Ride a Column folks... Its not that hard to not take damage from the fall if ya stay on a column....

[Faethe]

Thanks for the feedback! Sounds like hubby & I can set our minds at ease on this one.

If it helps, stating the guild is well known was made based on how quickly their LFMs seem to fill up. And often, I see characters I've quested with who aren't part of that guild join their parties. In this case, those folks were not the quest leaders. [and no, it wasn't IFV members who made those comments ] Might have been an assumption on my part.

I'm always looking for ways to be of help to parties I'm in - those comments, while not directed at me as far as I know, just made me wonder if I was properly contributing or if there was a bit of learning I'd missed...

Thanks again for your help, everyone!
- Faethe

[Seacog]

just seen this post and have a couple fine touches to add, though there was much information lacking. I am betting the problem was with aggro as stated, it was prolly fine til the first antigrav, then the giant lost aggro charged the arch, some tank/tanks/dps prolly started wailing on him, hurting everyone nearby, the tank was most likely very slow in acquiring aggro due to this, rinse and repeat for every antigrav, thus making it impossible for the clerics to really get charges due to the delay between positioning the boss and the next antigrav, which i can completly understand their frustration. No i dont have a healer, but have seen that happen far too many times. I was tanking the reaver last night for the first time myself, 16 barb 680 hp, tier 3 fire/fire/fire GS, was ripping him apart, and its a good thing, this other tank a fighter i think, kept trying to hurt him periodically and after a few antigravs he managed to acquire aggro before i could run in, and it took 3-4 hits for him to chase me again, luckily 8/12 were ina guild, not mine, and well experienced, nor was the idiot in their guild either, so we pulled it off without much of a hitch, but i was getting pretty annoyed at that guy, if i didn't have such a powerful weapon, it might have been much uglier..

[Angelus_dead]

Ride a Column folks... Its not that hard to not take damage from the fall if ya stay on a column....

It's more difficult to ride a column while away from the computer. Sure, you can aim into the corner and autorun, but that's not perfectly reliable. However standing under the arch will perfectly prevent falling damage every time (both up and down).

That frees the operator (not calling him a "player", because he isn't) from having to interact with the program while waiting to loot.

[Pyromaniac]

Unfortunately I've been stuck using heal scrolls in the reaver (and have 500 runs or more in there). Though if I'm heal scrolling generally I'll let 80% of the party die and only heal those needed for completion.

-Cleric decides they aren't healing anyone in the party (heal scroll used by my non-cleric toons on me)

-Tank on reaver constantly runs all over the place so I can't get a charge (typically I try to not heal/kill off said tank so we can get someone who will listen tanking/fighting - but it doesn't always work with multiple healers in there)

Its a pretty rare occurance though to be heal scrolling, the most common issue I find is clerics who aren't capable of healing.

I think there's various strategies employed on the reaver, and if its my group I definitely try to explain my way of doing it (One DPS tank beats reaver to minimal health, gets flight, pulls lever; reaver killed as soon as DPS tank gets flight). If you have a good fighter type on the reaver there's no need for the mass rush on the reaver as he's pretty much dead anyways.

Its definitely easy to get frustrated in there when people do things that make the raid less of a cakewalk than it is i.e. ranging reaver, casters dropping 1000 disco balls, non-designated tanks swinging away. Its also frustrating when the tanks can't hurt the reaver - I clericed one group where I had to solo cleric + cometfall most of the reavers hp away as our two tanks on the reaver couldn't hurt him at all.

[Faethe]

In this particular run, I didn't see anyone but the main tank on the reaver until we were told to go ahead and take him down.

It's been helpful to hear different perspectives - thanks again to everybody. I've never tanked and my sorc isn't blooded just yet, so I've only ever run it as a support fighter, waiting in the wings, as it were...

[Razvan]

lol...OP, a word of advice: If someone has to use heal scrolls in a Reaver raid, don't group with them again because THEY are the n00bs!

[Sue_Dark]

In the reaver, unless someone tells me that they believe I should be doing otherwise, I hang tight and use my w/p bow on the ele's to hopefully help the casters take them down a little faster. If the leader wants me to fly, I do it. If the leader wants me to tank, I'll try it. If the leader asks for a puzzle person, I'll tell em i suck at puzzles but am willing to give it a go if no one else knows better. Generally, tho, I just hang out, shield and wand in hand until told to kill the big butthead.

Any offhand comments like those mentioned, i ignore. As there are almost always people who assume they could do things better in any situation. Some of those people choose to voice that opinion, while others prudently hold back unless asked.

Personal opinion, if you hold the star, you are in charge. You coordinate the tank and cleric, you establish the puzzler, you are responsible as the leader for the orginization of the raid. Afterall, if the raid fails, people are more apt to remember the leader's name than anyone else (unless it's that rogue who couldnt do the traps or the fighter who runs headlong at the dragon before anyone is even in the gate or the dummy who agro's all the wf in the titan cause he didnt sneak (only once and i said i was sorry and they only killed me).

[Sue_Dark]

lol...OP, a word of advice: If someone has to use heal scrolls in a Reaver raid, don't group with them again because THEY are the n00bs!

That or the tank is totally ill prepared. Had one tank jump up to the task, run out and promptly move to the penalty box. He didnt have his hvy fort item on and took at least one nice crit right off.

Personally, on my healer, I'll combine dragon marks, wand, spell and scroll to keep someone alive if it looks like they are having a hard time. Meanwhile calling for someone to assist or take over. I never comment on noob-ness outside of guild jabs and just plain funning simply because we were all there once, we've all done something stupid at some point. Those who deny are either delusional or lying.

[juniorpfactors]

About a week ago, my husband and I [lvl 16 paladin] were in a reaver pug. Typical makeup: A couple of clerics, a couple of casters, & assorted melee.

As I'd been instructed the 1st time I was in the raid [this was my 14th, fwiw], I stood back where most folks do, watching the tank, keeping an eye open for spot healing needs, etc.

It came time for the melee to start the full-on assault and we were advancing on the reaver, when two members of a well-known guild started talking over party chat:

A: 'I hate when people don't know what they're doing!"
B: 'Yeah - I've used way more heal scrolls than normal already.'
A: 'It doesn't work when everybody's just bouncing around like that!'

Ultimately, the reaver was defeated & the puzzle was solved. But even a week later, I find myself wondering about that run. Even though no one was singled out for criticism, I thought at the time that if there was some strategy that those players knew and had employed in the past, it might have been helpful to share it.

Should we have done something differently? Additonal? It always feels funny to just stand there until it's time to charge... if melee characters waiting in the wings should be doing something while we wait & then employing some specific tactic on the reaver, I'd appreciate the correction.

Thanks,
Faethe

sounds to me like the clerics were NOOBS, get charged and stay charged,,, should be almost no need to use any heal scrolls, unlimited mana

jrp

[Solmage]

I understand the do not stand in the arch to avoid reaver aggro mentality, but in my experience, as long as noone hits the reaver when he comes charging at you and does a very simple dodge manuever you can avoid his pathetic attack until the tank gets aggro back - usually 2 or so seconds after.

The benefit of course is 0 damage even without the tumble spell, which most sorcerers do not carry.

[Zenako]

Well on a few occasions some time back, I have run out of SP on my Cleric due to having a group that seemed incapable of getting rid of the Elementals. Sigh. Tons of ineffective Disco's, lots of cursed elementals, but none of them going away. Getting tired of being an Air Elemental Rag Doll, I started nuking them (with excellent success as a caster focused cleric) and cleaning house. Hard to do that and get a charge at the same time. Ended up with well over 25 kills... With current spawn rates this is less of an issue.

[krud]

Some people just like doing things their own way. I sometimes tank my ftr/rog mutt. On one such raid, I mostly kept the reaver just off to the side and shield blocked while the others got their charges (basically, the boring turtle approach). I only took occasional swipes to keep him on me, or to re-aggro him whenever a certain ranger with a bow drew aggro. After a while this uber ranger stated "Is anyone tanking the Reaver?" (obviously noticing the Reaver's health bar not moving much), and charged in swinging away. I let him take aggro and proceeded to watch him get tossed up into the spikes and die less than a minute later.

Different ways of tanking I guess. Some people obviously think tanking doesn't count unless you personally account for half of the damage to the Reaver before the end assault.

Now, back to the OP; heal scrolls in the Reaver?! Without any more info it's hard to say what his specific gripe was. Maybe half a dozen people kept going in around the Reaver whenever anybody tried to get a charge, or the main tank would chase the reaver all over the place, making it difficult to get a charge. But, if this was just a standard run, then the heal scroll comment is grounds enough to just ignore the entire exchange as ridiculous.