Development FAILURE!

[creithne]

The only problem with Crit Rage is what it does to WoPs and the like.

Really? I always thought the problem with Crit Rage was that it turns fully raged out berserkers into deadly duellists who can precisely target vulnerable areas to do massive amounts of damage...rather than..ya know...doing massive amounts of damage based on the the enormous, uncontrollable, all comsuming RAGE that the barbarian is in...I still fail to see how being enraged = being more accurate with your strikes...

[oogly54]

Really? I always thought the problem with Crit Rage was that it turns fully raged out berserkers into deadly duellists who can precisely target vulnerable areas to do massive amounts of damage...rather than..ya know...doing massive amounts of damage based on the the enormous, uncontrollable, all comsuming RAGE that the barbarian is in...I still fail to see how being enraged = being more accurate with your strikes...

Or how when Enraged you can stop, open your backpack, drink a few pots, and then continue your destruction. Oh, don't barbarians HATE magic? When getting huge bonuses to STR, CON, Crit range, Crit Damage, ETC. There needs to be some negative. Same goes for a twirling ranger duel weilding. How can you strike for huge damage when you can't put your weight and strength behind an attack because if you do there is no possible way you could continue to attack 9 more times in a round.

[Drinkin]

Problem #1: No character respec. That is something that anyone who has worked on or even played an MMORPG before should have known. Game rules are hard, the developers are unlikely to get the rules perfect on their first try, so the rules will have to be changed. But rules cannot be changed if they would invalidate existing characters, unless those characters are permitted to adjust their build for the new rules.

By failing to do this, Turbine hobbled their ability to improve their game design.

Problem #1b: No item replacement. DDO lacks the ability for an existing magic item to change properties overnight if it turns out the original was imbalanced.

Problem #2: Inadequate customer-developer interaction. Many of DDO's problems would have been prevented or mitigated if they had properly harnessed the ability of customers to give early feedback and suggestions. For a simple example, there is still no good list of known bugs, which should be provided when someone goes to input a bug, so they can tell if it's already listed, or if they're the first player to report it. In addition, all evidence suggests that the beta-testing preview servers are poorly-managed one way or another.


Problem #3: Black Abbot. The true problem there is not the fact that they badly misjudged and screwed it up (which is excusable), but that they didn't care enough to fix it, or even try hard to fix it. A problem of that magnitude should have been a "drop everything else until it works" situation.


Problem #4: Nearsighted game design. Too many of the expansion missions added to DDO after release were wasted because they were developed as an isolated unit, and not by properly considering how they'd interact in the game as a whole. In particular, a quest interacts with the rest of the game world by the resources it provides that characters can bring to other missions (either XP or loot, or maybe also favor). A dungeon that's fun when you look at it individually may still fail to contribute to gameplay if all the appropriate-level characters are off doing profitable quests until they've advanced past the quest's level.

For a good example of that problem, look at the quests in the Necropolis. 5 at level 5-6, 5 at level 8-9, and 5 at level 11-12... all of them culminating their loot rewards with the Silver Flame Necklace, which every non-warforged should have. But to actually get that necklace, you only need find an opener and run the Cursed Crypt 3 times. All those other quests are actually not needed for the loot reward of that series. Other good examples are Enemy Within, Dead Shall Rise, Whisperdoom's Spawn, Dreams of Insanity... and I could go on and on.



Problem #5: Nonscaling raid quests. This is a special important case of nearsighted design. The timed raids in DDO were all designed for characters at or above the maximum experience level. But as the level cap went up after their release, those raids were left behind. Some aspects of the quest design (like the 3 day lockout timer, the large group size, and superior quality of certain named loot) are inherently aimed at capped characters. For example, the Chattering Ring from Warforged Titan is a valuable item for a level 16 high-AC character, but the monsters inhabiting that raid area aren't even speed-bumps for someone of that level. The disparity between the level of loot and the monsters guarding it damages gameplay.

Problem #6: Attendance-based Raid-loot System change. Modules 1-4 of DDO had a problem: the capstone raids of each module allowed 12 players to join the party, but only really 2-4 players had anything interesting to do during the raid, so there was a tendency to often play them with smaller groups. To change this, Module 5 retroactively changed those quests so that you could only get the full chance for loot if the party was packed to 12 characters.

The most obvious proof that this was a mistake is to look at the Reaver's Fate quest, which is essentially a 15-minute wait for 10 players to stand in the corner and chat, while 2 guys actually move the mission along.

1a Correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't deleting and rerolling be a complete respec?
1b They can and have.
2 Risia server but I don't think enough people used it so they shut it down. Also the forums.
3 I think abbot works fine. If it's too hard for you... get better.
4 Your most valid point how ever so many people complain about having to grind for loot why add another?
5 Plain ridiculous. Should WW or Tangleroot scale as well? Both have static rewards useful to people of a much higher level
6 I personaly thought this was the greatest thing since sliced bread and for a fat man like myself that's pretty great.

They don't have an effective system for changing items. Sometimes depending on the nature of the item and it's properties they can do a change, sometimes they can't. They can change what properties do, which works out if the unique item had a unique property, but not if it's built up from existing properties.

For example, the original version of the Seeker weapon property was woefully underpowered, as it only gave +X on confirm rolls. They fixed Seeker by making it also boost critical-hit damage. But that meant that the pre-existing non-weapon item with Seeker on it, the Bloodstone, became overpowered (better than most raid gear, including every raid trinket). If they'd had a way to change Bloodstone from Seeker 6 to Seeker 2, then it would have been fine.

Sometimes they can only do the change if the player possessing it consents, which is pretty useless for nerfing overpowered items.

If they had planned ahead properly, they would have been able to enforce an unseen replacement of old -> new items when characters log in, or when the server restarts, or some other unavoidable time.

Seeker always did that. They just updated the description.

I would have loved to quote most of you people complaining but instead I'll move on. To sate the curiousity of the op the biggest mistakes that the devs have made are.
1 Allowing lvl 1 toons to start a guild.
2 Not having standardized IQ tests for people before allowing them to sign up for a new account.
3 Listening too much to the people complaining on the forums all the time... "nerf this", "nerf that", "make my pali fight as well as a barb" classes aren't equal neither are races.

p.s. Since half the threads I read touch on this subject... crit rage is fine. I refuse to play a barb and I can usually get 80% of the kills a wop barb gets on my ranger. I can cast barkskin, csw/cmw/clw, resist energy, fom, and plenty of other handy spells. I personally think the barb got the short end of the stick.

[Borror0]

Really? I always thought the problem with Crit Rage was that it turns fully raged out berserkers into deadly duellists who can precisely target vulnerable areas to do massive amounts of damage...rather than..ya know...doing massive amounts of damage based on the the enormous, uncontrollable, all comsuming RAGE that the barbarian is in...I still fail to see how being enraged = being more accurate with your strikes...

It totally depends on how you look at it.

I do agree that, from a logical point of view, barbarians should have better criticals rather than more of them. However, increasing the threat range makes weapons with high critical multipliers like axes better. If, on the other hand, Critical Rage would improve the critical multiplier it'd be weapons with better critical range that would be better. Since weapon with high critical multiplier are more barbaric weapons... you can argue it both ways.

[Auran82]

It totally depends on how you look at it.

I do agree that, from a logical point of view, barbarians should have better criticals rather than more of them. However, increasing the threat range makes weapons with high critical multipliers like axes better. If, on the other hand, Critical Rage would improve the critical multiplier it'd be weapons with better critical range that would be better. Since weapon with high critical multiplier are more barbaric weapons... you can argue it both ways.

Make crit rage only work on non-finesse weapons?

[Borror0]

1a Correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't deleting and rerolling be a complete respec?

You do understand the consequences of rerolling and why it is unpleasant, do you?

Risia server but I don't think enough people used it so they shut it down. Also the forums.

I think abbot works fine. If it's too hard for you... get better.

Content run by less than 5% of the playerbase is wasted content. Wasted content is not desirable.

Your most valid point how ever so many people complain about having to grind for loot why add another?

It's not adding a grind, it's 'creating' content with less effort than it'd take to make a new dungeon.

I personaly thought this was the greatest thing since sliced bread and for a fat man like myself that's pretty great.

What's so great abut it? Getting 0 loot? Freeloading?

Seeker always did that. They just updated the description.

That's not true.

The bonus from Seeker now also adds to the base damage of the weapon on critical hits (before multiplication). Beware Seeker Heavy Picks.

Scource: Update 4.1: Mark of the Dragon Release Notes

[Borror0]

Make crit rage only work on non-finesse weapons?

That would be totally silly. You shall not be able to use light weapons in your off-hand!!!

[creithne]

I know its been discussed almost to death previously, and maybe its a slight derail of this thread, but considering devs themselves have said that Crit Rage went too far, has anyone come up with an even remotely viable way to "balance" (fix, nerf, whatever you want to call it) this enhancement? (Best one I've seen so far is to tie it to a particular weapon or maybe weapon type, rather than an all encompassing enhancement that works for all weapons.)

[Borror0]

I know its been discussed almost to death previously, and maybe its a slight derail of this thread, but considering devs themselves have said that Crit Rage went too far, has anyone come up with an even remotely viable way to "balance" (fix, nerf, whatever you want to call it) this enhancement?

It's not much so far now, since they are giving faster attack speed to rangers and paladins...

(Best one I've seen so far is to tie it to a particular weapon or maybe weapon type, rather than an all encompassing enhancement that works for all weapons.)

This would not fix anything. The best idea I have seen so far is to not make it affect procs.

[oogly54]

It's not much so far now, since they are giving faster attack speed to rangers and paladins...

Faster attacks for paladins? I havn't heard this.

[Angelus_dead]

This would not fix anything. The best idea I have seen so far is to not make it affect procs.

In addition it might help if it worked on mainhand only, although adding such a complex rule would break parsimony. That would reduce the pressure to TWF.

An alternative way to fix it, by nerfing very severly, is to change it to +1 crit mult on natural 20s. Tier 2 would be +1 on 19s. That modification would remove any bias towards weapons with puncturing/banishing properties (as they're not boosted by multiplier) and towards weapons with a particular crit profile (since the boost would be the same for everything, so long as you were already able to crit on a 19)

[Ryavin]

Wow, are you guys serious. All I have read are complaints about the best game out on the market.
1. If you think it is so easy, make one yourself and play it.
2. Dwarves overpowered? Yes they get nice enhancements, but if you can't keep up with them as another race, then you just aren't a good enough player-get over it. I have 0 dwarf melees (all elves) and have no problem with any elite content in the game.
3. Solo content--this is a group game, and yes you can solo most of the content. If you are unable to, once again you must not be a good enough player.
4. Loot complaints--this is my favorite. Why don't you just type in what loot you want everytime? Will that make you happy? Their is so much loot in this game it is crazy and you want more?

I know you can't please everyone, but the few people that are complaining her need to get a life. Posts like this on the forums scare off potential new subs. Subs are necessary to collect $$$ in order to fix things that you are soo eloquently stating are wrong. And no, the customer is not always right!!!

By the way, they are enhancing the other races. They have stated this in the past. I still don't see a prob with a race that is inherently tougher than they other ones getting a bonus for being tough.

[Dexxaan]

In addition it might help if it worked on mainhand only, although adding such a complex rule would break parsimony. That would reduce the pressure to TWF.

An alternative way to fix it, by nerfing very severly, is to change it to +1 crit mult on natural 20s. Tier 2 would be +1 on 19s. That modification would remove any bias towards weapons with puncturing/banishing properties (as they're not boosted by multiplier) and towards weapons with a particular crit profile (since the boost would be the same for everything, so long as you were already able to crit on a 19)

Now this option I like, and I also believe that the "Take a feat for XYZ Weapon or Weapon Type" would work if what AD is proposing is ignored.

Just hope we "live" to see this corrected.

[creithne]

I still don't see a prob with a race that is inherently tougher than they other ones getting a bonus for being tough.

Then where's the warforged toughness enhancement line?

[Dexxaan]

Then where's the warforged toughness enhancement line?

Toughness is a point of view...not being able to care if your cursed for repairing purposes (VOD) is a "Toughness"; Higher CON is a Toughness, Immunities also make you....Tough.

Just have to know the races a bit more in depth to get your answer.

[Drinkin]

You do understand the consequences of rerolling and why it is unpleasant, do you?
Yes I do understand that it's not the prefered method and I myself have been a victim of it multiple times twice on the same toon. I once rolled up a human rogue/wiz 12/2 after the human versatility nerf I rerolled into a drow capped it at 14/2 and ended up rerolling because of insightful reflexes since I had sacrificed some int to put into dex. I still think that a full respec option would be silly. You can already change out all your spells over time on sorc/bard, reset your enhancements, and redo your feats once again over time. How much more is needed?

Content run by less than 5% of the playerbase is wasted content. Wasted content is not desirable.
agreed that 5% is a waste although there are plenty of quests that see only 5% should we redo them all? I want new content and I assume you do as well. Lets cut our losses and move on.

It's not adding a grind, it's 'creating' content with less effort than it'd take to make a new dungeon.
It's not 'creating' anything it's making people run quests they don't want to. I run them anyway I try to get 1750 favor on each of my toons. Necropolis is a lot of favor!!
What's so great abut it? Getting 0 loot? Freeloading?
Freeloading on 1 quest? Well I guess I'm ok with that when I do hound and two Tumbleweeds, Breastplate of destruction. and Lorrik's Necklace drop I've had far more runs with 4+ items dropping that I have with 0 maybe I'm just lucky.



That's not true.


Scource: Update 4.1: Mark of the Dragon Release Notes
I stand corrected. Thanks for sighting your source I hate it when people insist their info is better than mine but don't sight a source.

To the OP I think the devs do pretty well I still vote for a paid expansion!!

[creithne]

Toughness is a point of view...not being able to care if your cursed for repairing purposes (VOD) is a "Toughness"; Higher CON is a Toughness, Immunities also make you....Tough.

Just have to know the races a bit more in depth to get your answer.

All true, however, I believe the post I was responding to was referring to the dwarf's +2 CON bonus...which appears to have been the basis for the Dwarven toughness enhancements...just sayin...warforged have that very same +2 CON bonus... I'd say getting bonuses to AC vs Giants...the ability to get more AC than any other race out of any suit of armor...and like you said...Higher CON...also make you...Tough so why do the dwarves need a toughness enhancement so much more than the warforged?

[Lorien_the_First_One]

Hand to hand martial arts specialists... who do more damage... with weapons.

That is kind of funny

The abortion we call crafting.

Are you upset because its too grindy? Too overpowered? Too....????

You know Kate Paiz is sitting in a room somewhere asking herself "Hmmm, how can we get them to grind some more?"

Yup, I think she is, and unfortunately a lot of the player base seems to want that based on other crafting suggestions in the forums

For me, it's easily the real lack of Solo content. Sure we have "wilderness zones", but unless you invest a fortune in pots (that you'll never get back from the treasure in the chests) it's pretty much a nonstarter for many people.

I disagree strongly here, D&D is a group game, and it should be kept that way.

But I'm still curious about what the masses think the Devs have been unbelievably... unwise... about...

Too many deviations from D&D, especially the absolute hyper inflation of treasure and stats. If everyone didn't have +6 stat items and +1 (or +3) tomes and half their stats plus another +3 for enhancements we wouldn't be stuck with monsters with 70AC and 8billion hps.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

To the OP I think the devs do pretty well I still vote for a paid expansion!!

I'll quit the game the day they do that.

[Laith]

To the OP I think the devs do pretty well I still vote for a paid expansion!!

I'll quit the game the day they do that.

some people seem to think that an expansion would automatically equal "more".
IMO, an expansion means that either Turbine hires more developers, or they take away work from free content.
which do you feel is more likely?

They also seem to ignore the fact that expansions posess a "have" and "have not" quality. If they include quests, it quite literally makes 2 seperate sub-populations out of each server. DDO already has a low population.

I do agree that DDO should put a box on the shelves again, though. This could easily be done by following the CoH model of re-packaging the same game in "special edition" type formats.