Intimidating Turtling Machine

[Ghoste]

Madstone shield + docent of defiance = 41 DR blocking. A warforged barbarian can intimitank using DR very well.

Add the 2 shield mastery feats he took, (are there shield mastery enhancements?) with titanic docent you're looking at a max possible DR/- around 57, and 47 more frequently with defiance. I bet you could probably wand repair this build through a fight with the pit fiend.

Add tothis a caster spamming ray of enfeeblement and waves of exhaustion, and a ranger hitting him with a cursespewer, and you've got yourself a very frustrated and impotent pit fiend.

Closest a fleshling could come with the same build would be 37 with stoneskin.

[Jay203]

Add the 2 shield mastery feats he took, (are there shield mastery enhancements?) with titanic docent you're looking at a max possible DR/- around 57, and 47 more frequently with defiance. I bet you could probably wand repair this build through a fight with the pit fiend.

Add tothis a caster spamming ray of enfeeblement and waves of exhaustion, and a ranger hitting him with a cursespewer, and you've got yourself a very frustrated and impotent pit fiend.

Closest a fleshling could come with the same build would be 37 with stoneskin.

=)
yay, fellow wf!
/salutes

[Borror0]

I bet you could probably wand repair this build through a fight with the pit fiend.

Why in hell would he go there? He would not deal damage at all!!

Add tothis a caster spamming ray of enfeeblement and waves of exhaustion, and a ranger hitting him with a cursespewer, and you've got yourself a very frustrated and impotent pit fiend.

What's the point if you're not damaging it?

(are there shield mastery enhancements?)

Only for dwarves.

[Hadrian]

He meant feats, not enhancements.

The point still stands that he can hit this very high DR and have the ability to drop the shield and DPS very well on the same character. Yes, yes - I know his build says it's meant only to turtle. Once again, I am saying that he also asked for advice. The fact that he wants to be able to turtle does not mean that he can't make use of both his very high potential DPS and DR in different situations. It just means our advice should help him adjust his build to make the most of both.

[Borror0]

It just means our advice should help him adjust his build to make the most of both.

I don't disagree to that, but for as long as he ignores this reality... I don't see why I would make suggestions he doesn't want to hear.

[Hadrian]

I don't disagree to that, but for as long as he ignores this reality... I don't see why I would make suggestions he doesn't want to hear.

Of course he's going to react negatively when you're not being constructive, whatever reason you use to justify it

[Borror0]

Of course he's going to react negatively when you're not being constructive, whatever reason you use to justify it

Wrong. I am being constructive, I'm telling why it will fail rather than just saying "It sucks".

If he would be willing to listen, he'd say a "What do you suggest then?" which he has not. He stil believes his turtle is a good idea, which is not true.

[Jay203]

Wrong. I am being constructive, I'm telling why it will fail rather than just saying "It sucks".

If he would be willing to listen, he'd say a "What do you suggest then?" which he has not. He stil believes his turtle is a good idea, which is not true.

gee, borror0, i'm sure i've said it somewhere that my entire build isn't meant to just turtle all together and i'm trying to make it so that i can swap out depending on situation
and besides, pretty much the only things you've been telling me are:
1) you have low hp, suck! (i've been playing with lots of low hp toons and it's great practice to adopt rather than just going "i have a bajillion hp so i'll be recklessly stupid and zerg like there's no tomorrow)
2) dwarves are better! (which i really don't care since if it's not WF, it can't really be called a machine)
3) your ac is too low, go roll something with high ac (which i don't want to since it's overused and i don't want to go through all that trouble farming equips just to be like everyone else that tries it)

being helpful in a build forum is posting information that will increase the potential toward what the build aims to do, not just telling them it sucks since other race/variation is superior due to how twinked out they are >_>

[Borror0]

gee, borror0, i'm sure i've said it somewhere that my entire build isn't meant to just turtle all together and i'm trying to make it so that i can swap out depending on situation

Your whole build doesn't hint at this, as you had Improved Critical:Piercing which hinted at S&B all the time. And I doubt you said you planed to switch, well you did but it was more like 'Well, there may be some instances where I'll be able to pull the DPS out if need be, but that is not too often.'

1) you have low hp, suck!

It's pretty easy for a barbarian to have decent HP. It's counter-productive to accept low HP on a barbarian.

2) dwarves are better! (which i really don't care since if it's not WF, it can't really be called a machine)

Even human would be better, actually, since you'd get better healing.

[Jay203]

Your whole build doesn't hint at this, as you had Improved Critical:Piercing which hinted at S&B all the time. And I doubt you said you planed to switch, well you did but it was more like 'Well, there may be some instances where I'll be able to pull the DPS out if need be, but that is not too often.'

It's pretty easy for a barbarian to have decent HP. It's counter-productive to accept low HP on a barbarian.

Even human would be better, actually, since you'd get better healing.

well, gee, thx for proving my point >_>

[Ghoste]

Wrong. I am being constructive, I'm telling why it will fail rather than just saying "It sucks".

If he would be willing to listen, he'd say a "What do you suggest then?" which he has not. He stil believes his turtle is a good idea, which is not true.

Wrong.

Constructive, by definition, is telling someone how to succeed. Telling someone why they will fail is the exact and precise opposite definition of constructive. You know, constructing something, as in building something, not tearing it down.

Here is an explanation from Princeton University: emphasizing what is laudable or hopeful or to the good; "constructive criticism"

[Ghoste]

Why in hell would he go there? He would not deal damage at all!!

The way I've seen the VoD pit fiend done was to have a wf tank (still able to repair when cursed) back into a corner and hold agro with intimidate. The rest of the melees in the party ran up behind the pit fiend and did the dps. The wf barb, which wasn't built for DR, but for dps, switched back and forth between meleeing and shield blocking to make himself easier to heal/repair. But most of the damage was coming from the rest of the melees in the party. By positioning the intimitank like that, the rest of the melees can avoid the pit fiend's cleaves, so you're pretty much just healing the one guy...mostly. With the huge DR and str debuffing, it makes a big difference on party resources.

[Jay203]

The way I've seen the VoD pit fiend done was to have a wf tank (still able to repair when cursed) back into a corner and hold agro with intimidate. The rest of the melees in the party ran up behind the pit fiend and did the dps. The wf barb, which wasn't built for DR, but for dps, switched back and forth between meleeing and shield blocking to make himself easier to heal/repair. But most of the damage was coming from the rest of the melees in the party. By positioning the intimitank like that, the rest of the melees can avoid the pit fiend's cleaves, so you're pretty much just healing the one guy...mostly. With the huge DR and str debuffing, it makes a big difference on party resources.

i'd hate to get hit by the stupid fireball tho

[Borror0]

Constructive, by definition, is telling someone how to succeed. Telling someone why they will fail is the exact and precise opposite definition of constructive. You know, constructing something, as in building something, not tearing it down.

Ok, easy then: don't do what would make you fail. Been constructive then. Sorry, thought it was obvious.

The way I've seen the VoD pit fiend done was to have a wf tank

Oh, you mean the Horned Devil! Not the same.

By positioning the intimitank like that, the rest of the melees can avoid the pit fiend's cleaves, so you're pretty much just healing the one guy...mostly. With the huge DR and str debuffing, it makes a big difference on party resources.

You just described how I do it, except that I swing rather than soak damage... and I take less damage.

[Ghoste]

Ok, easy then: don't do what would make you fail. Been constructive then. Sorry, thought it was obvious.

You did it again.

Not to argue with the points you were trying to make, was just pointing out that you were definitely not being constructive. You're focussing on "don't do this". Constructive would be, "do this instead", and "these are the strengths of what you're suggesting". Constructive and destructive criticism can both be done with the intent of helping someone.

Intent...I could go off all day about my ex-wife doing things with good intent, but because of how she chose to do it came across as a total b*tch. Had a very "the ends justify the means" kind of attitude.

I could care less whether you're using constructive or destructive criticism. The only point I was making is that you were definitely confusing the two.

[Borror0]

Constructive would be, "do this instead", and "these are the strengths of what you're suggesting".

I actually did that... You know, like when I said "there are better ways to achieve that goal like..." Anyway...

[Borror0]

Race: Warforged
Alignment: VChaotic Good
16 barbarian

Stats:

• 18 Str
• 14 Dex
• 16 Con
• 8 Int
• 6 Wis
• 10 Cha

Feats:
1. Toughness
3. Power Attack
6. Shield Mastery
9. Improved Critical: Slashing
12. Stunning Blow
15. SF: Intimidate

Skills:
Intimidate
Jump
Balance

That would already be a better start, although it was done in 5 minutes so it might be improved. I'll leave the enhancements to you.

The only important one to grab that you didn't in the OP is Healer's Friend II.

[Jay203]

ok, so i made some changes, dropped combat expertise and improved trip as well as swapping out IC: Piercing for IC: Slashing
made the lvl up list shifting a lot more towards the hp side
took out the whole entire Barb DR enhancement line tho =\

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 2.96
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 16 Chaotic Good Warforged Male
(2 Fighter \ 14 Barbarian) 
Hit Points: 490
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 16\16\21\26\26
Fortitude: 22
Reflex: 4
Will: 2

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 16)
Strength             18                    20
Dexterity            10                    10
Constitution         19                    30
Intelligence          8                    10
Wisdom                6                     6
Charisma              7                    10

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 1
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 1
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 1
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 16
+3 Tome of Constitution used at level 16
+3 Tome of Charisma used at level 16

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 16)
Balance               0                     0
Bluff                -1                     0
Concentration         5                    10
Diplomacy            -1                     0
Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
Haggle               -1                     0
Heal                 -2                    -2
Hide                  0                     0
Intimidate            3                    23
Jump                  8                    24
Listen               -2                    -1
Move Silently         0                     0
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform              n/a                    n/a
Repair                0                     1
Search                0                     0
Spot                 -2                    -2
Swim                  8                    24
Tumble                n/a                   5
Use Magic Device     n/a                    n/a

Notable Equipment
Helm: Wise Hat
Ring: Dextrous Ring
Necklace: Wise Necklace of Moderate Fortification 
Trinket: Kardin’s Eye
Cloak: Charismatic Cloak of Protection +# 
Belt: Health Belt of Greater False Life 
Bracers: Ogre Power Bracers

Level 1 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Shield Mastery


Level 3 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 4 (Barbarian)


Level 5 (Barbarian)


Level 6 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 7 (Barbarian)


Level 8 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 9 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Shield Mastery


Level 10 (Barbarian)


Level 11 (Barbarian)


Level 12 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 13 (Barbarian)


Level 14 (Barbarian)


Level 15 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 16 (Barbarian)
Enhancement: Barbarian Sprint Boost I
Enhancement: Barbarian Critical Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Critical Rage II
Enhancement: Barbarian Improved Damage Reduction I
Enhancement: Barbarian Improved Damage Reduction II
Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage II
Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage III
Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage IV
Enhancement: Barbarian Intimidation
Enhancement: Barbarian Intimidate I
Enhancement: Barbarian Intimidate II
Enhancement: Barbarian Intimidate III
Enhancement: Barbarian Intimidate IV
Enhancement: Barbarian Constitution I
Enhancement: Barbarian Constitution II
Enhancement: Barbarian Toughness I
Enhancement: Barbarian Toughness II
Enhancement: Barbarian Toughness III
Enhancement: Barbarian Toughness IV
Enhancement: Warforged Constitution I
Enhancement: Warforged Constitution II
Enhancement: Warforged Healer's Friend I
Enhancement: Warforged Healer's Friend II
Enhancement: Warforged Mechanics I

[Jay203]

so the modified version calculations:

HP:
168 14 lvls of barbarian
20 2 lvls of fighter
20 heroic durability
208 +13 con bonus
10 dragonic vitality
30 greater false life
72 4 toughness feats
50 barbarian toughness enhancement
------
578 hp

48 greater rage +6 con
----
626 hp (and then add in anything i missed out)

Intimidate:
19 base
3 cha bonus
4 enhancements
----
26 base
13 intimidate item
2 head of good fortune luckiness
------
41 with moderate equips (add in whatever i missed to get the final result)

not even gonna bother doing ac calculations >_>

[negative]

I think you went overboard in the HP department (that is, if you were even looking for serious advice on a build like that).

I'd stick with one toughness + full enhancement line, that should be more than enough on a Barb, and 3 feats isn't worth 54 HP (rarely, and only on non-D10 classes, would I take a second). I'd also drop Barb and WF Con II (just take first level of each) and try to get all of the Barb DR enhancements. I don't know where that puts your HP but it should be pretty high when raging, and it's not different than a lot of other barb builds.

After dropping 3 out of the 4 toughness, I'd grab SF: Intim, Bullheaded, and Stunning Blow (take this early), or whatever else you'd like and how high you want your intimidate. I'd take Addy Body @ 1 and respec to Shield Mastery right before I leveled up to 12 and took Improved Shield Mastery.

I'd do my stats something like (give or take):
16 STR
10 DEX
16 or 17 CON
8 or 10 INT
6 or 8 WIS
14 CHA

I know a lot of those comments sound like my previous advice, so if you've already decided you don't like it, feel free to ignore it.