Intimidating Turtling Machine

[Jay203]

I got bored, and that usually means bad news
so i got around thinking about making a warforged intimitank that focus around turtling with shield masteries and also critical rage with rapier
high str + greater rage + power attack for the construct like portals and stuff
feedbacks welcomed, but keep it at an appropriate lvl of "friendliness" k?

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 2.96
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 16 Chaotic Good Warforged Male
(2 Fighter \ 14 Barbarian) 
Hit Points: 272
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 16\16\21\26\26
Fortitude: 16
Reflex: 4
Will: 3

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 16)
Strength             18                    23
Dexterity             9                    10
Constitution         14                    18
Intelligence         13                    14
Wisdom                6                     6
Charisma             12                    12

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 1
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 1

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 16)
Balance               2                    -3
Bluff                 1                     1
Concentration         2                     4
Diplomacy             1                     1
Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
Haggle                1                     1
Heal                 -2                    -2
Hide                  0                    -5
Intimidate            5                    26
Jump                  8                    20
Listen               -2                    -2
Move Silently         0                    -5
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair                2                    18
Search                2                     2
Spot                 -2                    -2
Swim                  8                    15
Tumble                2                     4
Use Magic Device      n/a                   n/a

Notable Equipment
Helm: Bandanna of Haggling 
Ring: Health Ring
Ring: Dextrous Ring
Goggles: Clever Goggles
Necklace: Wise Necklace
Trinket: Kardin’s Eye
Cloak: Charismatic Cloak
Cloak: Cloak
Belt: Ogre Power Belt

Level 1 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Adamantine Body


Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Shield Mastery


Level 3 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Combat Expertise


Level 4 (Barbarian)


Level 5 (Barbarian)


Level 6 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Trip


Level 7 (Barbarian)


Level 8 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons


Level 9 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Shield Mastery


Level 10 (Barbarian)


Level 11 (Barbarian)


Level 12 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 13 (Barbarian)


Level 14 (Barbarian)


Level 15 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Bullheaded


Level 16 (Barbarian)
Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Reduction Boost I
Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Reduction Boost II
Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Reduction Boost III
Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Reduction Boost IV
Enhancement: Barbarian Sprint Boost I
Enhancement: Barbarian Critical Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Critical Rage II
Enhancement: Barbarian Improved Damage Reduction I
Enhancement: Barbarian Improved Damage Reduction II
Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage II
Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage III
Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage IV
Enhancement: Barbarian Extra Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Intimidation
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Rage I
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Trip) I
Enhancement: Barbarian Intimidate I
Enhancement: Barbarian Intimidate II
Enhancement: Barbarian Intimidate III
Enhancement: Barbarian Intimidate IV
Enhancement: Barbarian Constitution I
Enhancement: Barbarian Constitution II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Warforged Constitution I
Enhancement: Warforged Constitution II
Enhancement: Warforged Healer's Friend I

EDIT: oh, and do excuse the all enhancements at lvl 16 part, i get lazy doing it every lvl up :P

EDIT#2: this is a "for-****s-and-giggles" build, don't even bother with this if you can't have fun without having the optimum build :P

[Borror0]

EDIT: oh, and do excuse the all enhancements at lvl 16 part, i get lazy doing it every lvl up :P

Actually, it makes reading the build much easier if you put it at the end than along the way.

As for the build, I won't analyze it. With a build like this, the character planner does an awful job showing us "what he can do". Consider a better presentation.

[Angelus_dead]

I got bored, and that usually means bad news
so i got around thinking about making a warforged intimitank that focus around turtling with shield masteries and also critical rage with rapier

I say one thing, that having Barbarian Intimidate means that when you're standing there with a shield on soaking damage and not hurting monsters, at least you can say "Hey, my Shaken is taking -2 off their saves and helping the casters kill stuff". No fighter intimitank can do that.

[Borror0]

At least you can say "Hey, my Shaken is taking -2 off their saves and helping the casters kill stuff". No fighter intimitank can do that.

That would have been a good argument in Module 4 & 5...

[Samadhi]

I say one thing, that having Barbarian Intimidate means that when you're standing there with a shield on soaking damage and not hurting monsters, at least you can say "Hey, my Shaken is taking -2 off their saves and helping the casters kill stuff". No fighter intimitank can do that.

... -2 saves means next intimidate lands better too

[Angelus_dead]

... -2 saves means next intimidate lands better too

How so? There's no save against Intimidate. And anyway, the shaken expires before you can intimidate again.

[Jay203]

aw com'on~
nothing really to say about it? D=

[Freeman]

Well, I've got a barbarian with intimidate at level 9 now. But I don't really agree with the "turtling" part. I mainly use intimidate to keep from having to chase down the mobs that the sorc firewalls. Instead, I just stand in the firewall and beat them down. The sorc's happy, I'm happy, and the cleric/bard/whoever only has to worry about healing one person standing still instead of a hasted, hopping sorc running all over the map. I can throw on a shield and block if I ever need to, but 99% of the time, I'd rather be slicing and dicing instead.

[Hadrian]

You almost have to include the docent of defiance in a build like this. For a build that wants to turtle with DR, a 20/- that slows movement is outstanding.

[Laith]

The choice of warforged is odd. In fact, the only WF benefit you're using is arcane healing & immunities.
Taking WF Brutal Fighting or WF Power Attack could have been a way to justify the choice.

Since you didn't go far enough into fighter to get Armor or Tower Shield Mastery, or enough dex to get dodge, i'll assume AC wasn't really a top concern. That's fine since you can't run combat expertise and barbarian rage at the same time. Because of this fact, tank-minded barbarians have a decent argument for ignoring AC all together: focusing in HP & DR instead. HOWEVER, this build doesn't have all that many HP, and only beats the blocking DR of a like-minded fighter by about 2-4 (5/- DR trinket or 3/- boots are common vs your 7/- DR). A dwarf could also get 3 more blocking DR from enhancements.

The build also lacks will & reflex saves, both must be considerations for someone that chooses to shoulder aggro.

[Borror0]

Well, I've got a barbarian with intimidate at level 9 now. [...] I can throw on a shield and block if I ever need to, but 99% of the time, I'd rather be slicing and dicing instead.

Good Freeman.

[Jay203]

The choice of warforged is odd. In fact, the only WF benefit you're using is arcane healing & immunities.
Taking WF Brutal Fighting or WF Power Attack could have been a way to justify the choice.

Since you didn't go far enough into fighter to get Armor or Tower Shield Mastery, or enough dex to get dodge, i'll assume AC wasn't really a top concern. That's fine since you can't run combat expertise and barbarian rage at the same time. Because of this fact, tank-minded barbarians have a decent argument for ignoring AC all together: focusing in HP & DR instead. HOWEVER, this build doesn't have all that many HP, and only beats the blocking DR of a like-minded fighter by about 2-4 (5/- DR trinket or 3/- boots are common vs your 7/- DR). A dwarf could also get 3 more blocking DR from enhancements.

The build also lacks will & reflex saves, both must be considerations for someone that chooses to shoulder aggro.

will save is really pointless for me due to the fact that the only thing i'm pretty much afraid of is command/greater command and dance
i'm naturally immune to hold, enervate, poison, disease. Fear is taken out of the question with reaver's ring (which makes the will save even lower )
hp-wise, mid 200 to low 300 is more than enough for me to play around as a melee tank, especially for a turtling type :P
so far the only thing i'm gonna be afraid of are the reflex-saves that'll hurt plenty. then again, that's someone else's job to take out the caster asap =P
DR wise, WF has it higher than dwarves when the docent of defiance is taken into consideration
however, if you build something similar with a dwarf, you're gonna have to sacrifice something in order to get that dwarven shield mastery


EDIT:
oh, and freeman, i do attack =P with a rapier that is, that and improved trip xD

[Samadhi]

Mid 200 to low 300 is enough? Seriously???

400 HP should be the low end cutoff for any melee IMO; 350 for those with some ultra-line of defense or good twich/tumble skills.

Obviously this is just my opinion, but I don't think I would get much dispute on it

[boldarblood]

will save is really pointless for me due to the fact that the only thing i'm pretty much afraid of is command/greater command and dance
i'm naturally immune to hold, enervate, poison, disease. Fear is taken out of the question with reaver's ring (which makes the will save even lower )
hp-wise, mid 200 to low 300 is more than enough for me to play around as a melee tank, especially for a turtling type :P
so far the only thing i'm gonna be afraid of are the reflex-saves that'll hurt plenty. then again, that's someone else's job to take out the caster asap =P
DR wise, WF has it higher than dwarves when the docent of defiance is taken into consideration
however, if you build something similar with a dwarf, you're gonna have to sacrifice something in order to get that dwarven shield mastery


EDIT:
oh, and freeman, i do attack =P with a rapier that is, that and improved trip xD

If you have mid 200-300 at 16th level, its not adequate, it's well below average. Should be 400+

Also a barbarian should not have a bad will save at all at end game. My barb hits 30+ will save versus spells.

[Jay203]

Mid 200 to low 300 is enough? Seriously???

400 HP should be the low end cutoff for any melee IMO; 350 for those with some ultra-line of defense or good twich/tumble skills.

Obviously this is just my opinion, but I don't think I would get much dispute on it

lol, why don't ppl believe me when i say i run around with a melee that has less than 400 hp and still live quite well? :P

[boldarblood]

lol, why don't ppl believe me when i say i run around with a melee that has less than 400 hp and still live quite well? :P

Because your a barb with that many hitpoints, not a fighter, not a paladin. And warforged where you get the +2 con enhancment. Getting over 400 hitpoints is easy with WF Barbs.

[Jay203]

Because your a barb with that many hitpoints, not a fighter, not a paladin. And warforged where you get the +2 con enhancment. Getting over 400 hitpoints is easy with WF Barbs.

i wasn't talking about this guy :P

[Laith]

will save is really pointless for me due to the fact that the only thing i'm pretty much afraid of is command/greater command and dance ... Fear is taken out of the question with reaver's ring (which makes the will save even lower )

and curse, unholy blight, inflict wounds, etc.
the biggest concern is really fear, and that you'd be drinking your weight in curse potions early on.

you bring up an interesting point though: sure, you have the reaver ring to deal with fear. Which ring are you planning to give up for it though, dex or con? Presumably you often have GH for the times you can depend on it, but you can't really just dismiss such concerns with "I have an item for it" when that means giving up something important.
For that matter, where's your intimidate item (ring, neck, or helm)?
I'm guessing helm is a stand-in for minos.

hp-wise, mid 200 to low 300 is more than enough for me to play around as a melee tank, especially for a turtling type :P .... so far the only thing i'm gonna be afraid of are the reflex-saves that'll hurt plenty

i've got my own tank and can definately say that 350+ hp is functional... but my tank also has high-AC and high-saves so he generally takes half damage from spells.

Your build is obviously not planning to have high AC due to your equipment and enhancement layout. You're going to need to make up for that with more than a couple extra DR. The obvious place for a barb to make it up is with HP. For a WF, that also means Healer's Friend.

My advice is to further research what kind of equipment this build would be wearing, and what kind of numbers you'll actually have. Right now, you seem to be in the dark as to where this build can go.

[Jay203]

and curse, unholy blight, inflict wounds, etc.
the biggest concern is really fear, and that you'd be drinking your weight in curse potions early on.

you bring up an interesting point though: sure, you have the reaver ring to deal with fear. Which ring are you planning to give up for it though, dex or con? Presumably you often have GH for the times you can depend on it, but you can't really just dismiss such concerns with "I have an item for it" when that means giving up something important.
For that matter, where's your intimidate item (ring, neck, or helm)?
I'm guessing helm is a stand-in for minos.


i've got my own tank and can definately say that 350+ hp is functional... but my tank also has high-AC and high-saves so he generally takes half damage from spells.

Your build is obviously not planning to have high AC due to your equipment and enhancement layout. You're going to need to make up for that with more than a couple extra DR. The obvious place for a barb to make it up is with HP. For a WF, that also means Healer's Friend.

My advice is to further research what kind of equipment this build would be wearing, and what kind of numbers you'll actually have. Right now, you seem to be in the dark as to where this build can go.

hehe, thx for the input
i've never really concern myself with equipments since i'm not really the type that relies on getting specific equipments to make my characters work, mainly because i lack the patience to farm for them
i do plan on using intimidate item on helm if i can find one (a ring works too)
i'll probably end up skipping dex item and go for str glove or bracers, con belt, wis necklace, cha cloak,
all in all, the only items i use will be whatever i stumble across on auction house or as loot :P
PS: i don't think i'm gonna bother with minos, i've never used it, and i doubt i'll ever get around to hunt for enough tapestry for it =P


Intimidate wise, i can get it to 40s with Cha item and a +13 intimidate item and maybe higher with GH and other buffs =\
don't ask me for the specific numbers since i don't really put equips into considerations (except for stat equips) due to the fact that i don't farm for equips at all :P
too lazy really xD

[negative]

Well, if you are going in the direction everyone is implying/suggesting, all HP and DR and no real AC (I'm not sure without seeing an armor breakdown), then you might as well drop CE and pick up something else, one suggestion would be SF: Intimidate (in addition to the bullheaded you are already taking) or toughness. You probably would also be dropping Adamantine body (and just go with composite) once you hit gianthold, and pick up another usefull feat, though I'm not sure I have a suggestion for that just yet. Of course both of those suggestions only apply if you are not breaking 55+ AC end-game.

As another posted mentioned, you definently should pick up healers friend II no matter what, moreso if you are going just HP an DR and no AC. It would be nice to see more HP on a build going this direction as well, but that's been mentioned. Could also be worth looking at the WF Brute Fighting enhancements that make your melee attacks generate more aggro.

As a WF Barb, you should have a good will save when raging without putting too much effort into it. Let me rephrase that, make sure you have a good will save because greater command isn't fun.