Is the bard class for me?

[Reano]

I'm new to DDO (but not MMOs) and I'm trying to debate between playing a bard or a cleric. I love to heal in MMOs, however I like the idea of buffing as I believe it is an underrated skill that is often overlooked in many mmo's. I've read up on the Bard and it seems interesting, but I'm not sure if I should choose it over a cleric (which is a role I tend to play most often in other games). What do you guys think? Are bards sought after? Are they fun to play? And better yet are these two things true in comparison of the Cleric?

[Lithic]

I built mine as a crowdcontroler, and frankly felt like I was playing diet-caster. Others seem to have more fun with the melee warchanter-types, but mine was turned into a hagglebot long ago.

[Samadhi]

Bards are awesome, but they really don't start to shine until higher levels. If you are new to the game, I highly recommend that you start with the cleric out of the two you listed. In general, I will never recommend bards or rogues to new players. Bards because they are really dull until level 7 minimum - rogues because they are too easy to build poorly.

Now granted, bards are my favorite class in the game and I absolutely prefer them to anything. Just not wanting a new player to get frustrated with a class that doesn't immediately shine

[Freeman]

I agree with Samadhi. I would recommend that you start out with a cleric instead. Bards can be much more difficult to play than other classes, and new players often get frustrated with the weaknesses of the bard class, particularly at low levels. Also, since they have a much more limited spell point pool, healing on a bard can be much more expensive than for a cleric. There are also a fair number of people who still believe that cleric's are the only healers, so you would have to deal with that ignorance as well. I would recommend you play the cleric until you get to at least the mid-levels. That should give you a decent picture of how the different classes are done, and you can decide at that point how you want to proceed.

[geezee]

I disagree with the above posters in that bards can be powerful at low levels too. That depends on the build. Most battle bards, for example, are overpowered at low levels.

Bard can be tough for new players, as it's the most versatile and difficult to play class. One thing about bards is that there is a multitude of different builds and playstyles. A bard can be built to do just about anything but nuke in DDO.

To answer your questions, bards are highly sought after and a lot of fun to play. I find all the other classes boring and frustrating to play by comparison.

Clerics are better at healing, bards have the best buffs in DDO. Bards can do a lot of things that clerics (and other classes) cant do. One thing about bards that beats the hell out of clerics is that you have a lot more freedom to do what you want. Clerics are expected to heal in DDO, where as no one cares what a bard does as long as he sings a couple songs and hastes everyone. The other thing that really bugs me about playing my cleric after being used to playing bards is how slow he runs and not being able to jump. Like being an old man after being in the NBA.

In the end, it boils down to playstyle. If you like keeping everyone alive and healed, cleric is probably better. If you have a short attention span and like doing all kinds of different things, play a bard.

[Freeman]

Bard can be tough for new players

All that really needs to be said. If even Geezee agrees, why are we still having this discussion? Unless someone wants to say that Geezee is wrong is this particular case. Maybe that's why so many people recommended that the new player go with cleric to begin with.

[seldarin]

I disagree with the above posters in that bards can be powerful at low levels too. That depends on the build. Most battle bards, for example, are overpowered at low levels.

Bard can be tough for new players, as it's the most versatile and difficult to play class. One thing about bards is that there is a multitude of different builds and playstyles. A bard can be built to do just about anything but nuke in DDO.

To answer your questions, bards are highly sought after and a lot of fun to play. I find all the other classes boring and frustrating to play by comparison.

Clerics are better at healing, bards have the best buffs in DDO. Bards can do a lot of things that clerics (and other classes) cant do. One thing about bards that beats the hell out of clerics is that you have a lot more freedom to do what you want. Clerics are expected to heal in DDO, where as no one cares what a bard does as long as he sings a couple songs and hastes everyone. The other thing that really bugs me about playing my cleric after being used to playing bards is how slow he runs and not being able to jump. Like being an old man after being in the NBA.

In the end, it boils down to playstyle. If you like keeping everyone alive and healed, cleric is probably better. If you have a short attention span and like doing all kinds of different things, play a bard.

My bard solo healed Elite runs at lvl 10 through madstone, i play a cleric as well, class doesnt make a better healer, player does. I good player on a bard can and invariably does make a better healer than a bad player on a cleric. Its all to do with playstyle, not class. As to the OPS initial post i would recommend either class. Bard has availability to that magical little skill called Haggle, plus charisma, making it a wee bit cheaper to buy stuff wouldnt you say. To contradict another post, i wouldnt say its cheaper to run a cleric, if you need to buy wands etc it would be cheaper doing it as a bard wouldnt it? Unless you have a high lvl toon to do it for you, but then again if you are a new player this wouldnt be the case would it? A class is only as difficult as you choose to make it.

[sirgog]

Bards are awesome, but they really don't start to shine until higher levels. If you are new to the game, I highly recommend that you start with the cleric out of the two you listed. In general, I will never recommend bards or rogues to new players. Bards because they are really dull until level 7 minimum - rogues because they are too easy to build poorly.

Now granted, bards are my favorite class in the game and I absolutely prefer them to anything. Just not wanting a new player to get frustrated with a class that doesn't immediately shine

IMO the Bard is the strongest class in the game at low level, if built correctly.

A first level bard can have a 16 Strength (which when combined with their own song, grants them a further +1 attack/+2 damage for about the same results as an 18 Str melee. They can also have a 16 Charisma and the Charm Person spell, which is phenomonally powerful throughout all of the Harbor quests. Not to mention, their songs benefit allies too, not just themself.

At level 2 they gain Cure Light Wounds - making them even better at helping the party and keeping themself at a solid hp total.

At level 4, and this is most important, Charm Person starts to lose some of its lustre (due to you encountering Ogres, Giants, Trolls etc). That's conveniently exactly when the Bard gains the spell Suggestion. Now you can fight like a melee, and bring better crowd control to the table than a Sorc can, and buff, and play a (very) secondary healing role.

So from levels 1-5, IMO a Bard is the best crowd controller, the best buffer, a solid melee and a mediocre healer.


At higher levels, you start to lose a little of this power. Clerics streak well ahead of you in Healing, and you can't come close to keeping up. Sorcs and Wizards surpass your crowd control skills and gain mass damage spells like Firewall, and unbuffed melees become as good as you are selfbuffed at fighting. But, you remain the king of buffing.

[sirgog]

If you choose to go Bard, here's a guide as to one way you could build your character. (It's pretty similar to how I built Cacophonous, but won't assume access to high-end loot). This is a frontline fighter bard that buffs the party, buffs himself, then pulls out a heavy weapon.


Race: Dwarf (This is mainly because Dwarves have a lot more HP than any other race, although you'll hurt from the Charisma penalty, you'll hurt more if you don't have the insane HP Dwarves get).

Starting Stats:
Str 17 (13 build points. At higher levels you will occasionally gain extra stat points - put these all into Strength).
Dex 8
Con 15 (5 build points, as a Dwarf you get a +2 bonus here, already factored in)
Int 8
Wis 8
Cha 14 (10 build points - note that as a Dwarf, you will have a 2 point penalty to Cha)

First three feats: (You get one of these at each of levels 1, 3 and 6 - the order doesn't matter much)
Power Attack (this is a prerequisite for the Warchanter enhancement, which adds a lot to your combat buffs, you get this at level 6)
Toughness (extra HP good)
Extend Spell (makes your buffs much better)

Skills:
The key ones are Use Magic Device (maximise this at every level, although it doesn't do much for you until you get it into the low 20s); Haggle (buying stuff cheap will help a lot on your first character); and Jump and Balance (these help you jump obstacles and avoid being tripped respectively, once you gain experience with the game mechanics Jump will help you avoid foes too).

Spells:
Take one of Cure Light Wounds or Charm Person at level 1. Take the other at level 2. Take anything you like at level 3, at 4 take Suggestion. Even though your Charisma is only moderate, you'll be quite effective at casting Charm spells in lower level quests, especially once you learn which foes are more susceptible.

At level 7, take Haste. It's the best buff in the game.


Enhancements:
Take the enhancements that improve your ability to buff through your songs; particularly Inspired Attack and Inspired Damage. You'll also need Inspired Bravery to qualify for Warchanter at level 6. Enhancements are easy to change - so feel free to mess around with them.

[geezee]

IMO the Bard is the strongest class in the game at low level, if built correctly.

A first level bard can have a 16 Strength (which when combined with their own song, grants them a further +1 attack/+2 damage for about the same results as an 18 Str melee. They can also have a 16 Charisma and the Charm Person spell, which is phenomonally powerful throughout all of the Harbor quests. Not to mention, their songs benefit allies too, not just themself.

At level 2 they gain Cure Light Wounds - making them even better at helping the party and keeping themself at a solid hp total.

At level 4, and this is most important, Charm Person starts to lose some of its lustre (due to you encountering Ogres, Giants, Trolls etc). That's conveniently exactly when the Bard gains the spell Suggestion. Now you can fight like a melee, and bring better crowd control to the table than a Sorc can, and buff, and play a (very) secondary healing role.

So from levels 1-5, IMO a Bard is the best crowd controller, the best buffer, a solid melee and a mediocre healer.


At higher levels, you start to lose a little of this power. Clerics streak well ahead of you in Healing, and you can't come close to keeping up. Sorcs and Wizards surpass your crowd control skills and gain mass damage spells like Firewall, and unbuffed melees become as good as you are selfbuffed at fighting. But, you remain the king of buffing.

Well, since you agree with me, you obviously know nothing about bards. They were gonna flame you anyway and edit your quotes.

Bard is not considered a playable class for new players. Everyone on this forum has another toon who is better than their bard. If you did know anything about bards, no one wants to hear it because this is not a suitable venue for discussing the bard class. I hope this teaches you a lesson not to have simplistic thinking and recognize the true power of epeen from Chinese gold farmer.

[Amabel]

Geez - I must say I didn't read most of the flames... hope they were interesting.

OP - bards are great fun. Most fun class in game in my opinion. However, they are a bit multi ability dependent (you want CHA, STR, CON and perhaps enough DEX for TWF) and benefit greatly from 32 point builds, which you open with 1750 favour, or from Drow, which you open with 400 favour.

On the other hand, many clerics can be just as effective as a 28 point human or dwarf. Max WIS and CON and you're pretty much set. A bit of STR is good, but it's barely going to matter by the time you're capped.

I suggest you go with cleric, at least until you open the Drow race, and then if you feel like a change make a Drow bard. Especially if there's a little min/maxer inside you. Otherwise you'll be re-rolling that 28 point bard eventually. The 28 point cleric you may just keep. (Although I rerolled my 28 point cleric too. )

[Angelus_dead]

What do you guys think? Are bards sought after? Are they fun to play? And better yet are these two things true in comparison of the Cleric?

Both are fun and sought. It will be easier to start with a cleric first, because they benefit less from the consumable items that can really aid a bard.

[geezee]

It will be easier to start with a cleric first, because they benefit less from the consumable items that can really aid a bard.

I dont understand the logic of this statement.

Cleric is easier to play for a noob because everyone will kiss your ass, invite you to groups, join your groups, and run back to find you when you get lost. But that wasnt the OPs question, which one is easier. Just because it's easier doesnt make it more fun.

To the OP, I would make a cleric and a bard and play them til level 6 or so. Then you will know which one fits your style.

[Samadhi]

I dont understand the logic of this statement.

Cleric is easier to play for a noob because everyone will kiss your ass, invite you to groups, join your groups, and run back to find you when you get lost. But that wasnt the OPs question, which one is easier. Just because it's easier doesnt make it more fun.

To the OP, I would make a cleric and a bard and play them til level 6 or so. Then you will know which one fits your style.

It's really pretty simple. AD is referring to wands and scrolls, the bread and butter of a UMD bard, that a new player is really not going to be able to afford. Play both to level 6? Do you remember what it was like to be a new player? Level 6 is AGES away at that point. I almost quit this game at level 2.

[Reano]

Yeah as much as I would like to level both to 6 and see which one better suits my preferences, I would much rather just pick one and go with it... Unfortunately, despite all the help you guys have given me, I still can't decide. This is always the worst part of an MMO for me; I can't ever decide on a class. bah.

[Angelus_dead]

Unfortunately, despite all the help you guys have given me, I still can't decide. This is always the worst part of an MMO for me; I can't ever decide on a class. bah.

I'll decide for you:
Be a cleric.

There, that was easy! For additional info, open the /who list and sort the character classes by name. Count how many bards and clerics there are on right now.

[geezee]

It's really pretty simple. AD is referring to wands and scrolls, the bread and butter of a UMD bard, that a new player is really not going to be able to afford. Play both to level 6? Do you remember what it was like to be a new player? Level 6 is AGES away at that point. I almost quit this game at level 2.

What wands do you need at level 1-5 besides a healing wand? Afford what? Do any of you guys play a bard?

I hope none of you work in sales...

[Samadhi]

What wands do you need at level 1-5 besides a healing wand? Afford what? Do any of you guys play a bard?

I hope none of you work in sales...

I do work in sales, actually, but it isn't my goal to give unrealistic expectations to a newer player.

I have capped 3 bards in my time playing this game, two of which still live.

Any more questions of relevence?

[Aranticus]

What wands do you need at level 1-5 besides a healing wand? Afford what? Do any of you guys play a bard?

I hope none of you work in sales...

oh geezee!!!!!

dude, from all your post you have made referenced to a BATTLE bard. did you ever run a HEALING bard? a battle bard essentially uses his own sp for buffs and not healing. since a bard ability to heal is so poor (due to lack of sp), in a normal quest in which the bard is the primary healer (which is very common in low levels), the sp is supplemented by scrolls and wands (which is lesser in the cleric's case as they have more sp, my non maxed wis clr has 1540sp without shroud tier 3, my 35 cha bard has 1300 sp with shroud tier 3, difference = 300+). clerics also gain empower healing enhancements to get cheap large heals.

so a battlebard is a bard but a haggle bard is not? i'm sorry i dun quite get your logic here..... geezee! look at the OP and tell me that the OP wants a fighting toon. he requested a HEALING toon. a hagglebard is the perfect example of a healing toon. how? spellsinger (less sp for heals), maxed healing enhancements, maxed cha (more sp), weak (so wont melee but just stay back and heal), compare this to the battle bard (which in most cases, melee and allow the healers to heal them)

i really hope you are a not lawyer or a doctor. people are going to have so much fun with malpractice suits

[Lewcipher]

What wands do you need at level 1-5 besides a healing wand? Afford what? Do any of you guys play a bard?

I hope none of you work in sales...

Actually, hope you don't work in sales The gentleman, or lady had chosen cleric, so....mmm...hope you work in tech support. Yes, bards rock...yes, clerics rock. If you're just coming into this game what's easier? Cleric.