DR Stacking

[Jay203]

can we PLEASE make it so the DR stacks?!
with the amount of steroids you guys have been feeding to the mobs, our DR seem so much insignificant compared to the mobs'

i mean, seriously, if you wear 2 layers of bullet proof vest, their protection stacks up
a barbarian wearing an adamantine armor should gin both armor DR along with his(or her) natural class DR

ARGHH!!!!!!

[Angelus_dead]

a barbarian wearing an adamantine armor should gin both armor DR along with his(or her) natural class DR

(Combat): Suulomades hit you for 8 points of slash damage; 44 was blocked by your damage reduction.

[Jay203]

(Combat): Suulomades hit you for 8 points of slash damage; 44 was blocked by your damage reduction.

blocking? warchanter ironskin chant? not enough info >_>

[Angelus_dead]

blocking? warchanter ironskin chant? not enough info >_>

Yes blocking. Lorik's shield + Defiant docent.

[Strykersz]

(Combat): Suulomades hit you for 8 points of slash damage; 44 was blocked by your damage reduction.

I have to wonder how this would be any worse than Suulomades has missed you 19 times out of 20? Obviously, it would require rebalancing of the availability of dr or how hard monsters hit, and it is probably impractical from a "WotC won't let us do it" standpoint, but I don't think it is a bad idea from a "it allows you to negate the majority of incoming damage" view especially if it came with a nerf to fortification.

edit: Heh, didn't do the math and assumed this was a critique of the idea!

[Jay203]

Yes blocking. Lorik's shield + Defiant docent.

bah, cheater :P too much elite loots xD

[Angelus_dead]

I have to wonder how this would be any worse than Suulomades has missed you 19 times out of 20?

Note in addition that his total damage was 44+8 = 52, which indicates either a low roll on the part of the attacker, or that he had been debuffed with Waves of Exhaustion or similar effects. Typically he'll do more than that, so that blocking DR in the 40s reflects only 60% damage avoidance.

[Turial]

can we PLEASE make it so the DR stacks?!
with the amount of steroids you guys have been feeding to the mobs, our DR seem so much insignificant compared to the mobs'

i mean, seriously, if you wear 2 layers of bullet proof vest, their protection stacks up
a barbarian wearing an adamantine armor should gin both armor DR along with his(or her) natural class DR

ARGHH!!!!!!

Barbarians are a bad example because nothing bypasses the DR. For other items it doesnt make sense to stack but rather a layered effect.

That would give the following result Stoneskin + Bramblecasters = mob needs both an adamantine slash/blud weapon to get though. Adamantine piercing weapons would be stopped by the spearblock and slashing/blud weapons would be blocked by stoneskin.

Unless the act of bypassing the superior DR automatically lets the attack though the lesser DR. Even if it would normally block it.

[Jay203]

Barbarians are a bad example because nothing bypasses the DR. For other items it doesnt make sense to stack but rather a layered effect.

That would give the following result Stoneskin + Bramblecasters = mob needs both an adamantine slash/blud weapon to get though. Adamantine piercing weapons would be stopped by the spearblock and slashing/blud weapons would be blocked by stoneskin.

Unless the act of bypassing the superior DR automatically lets the attack though the lesser DR. Even if it would normally block it.

how would it not make sense? each DR contributes into absorbing a bit of the DR rather than only one is able to absorb anything
A WF Barbarian with adamantine body has natural DR from the body as well as class DR
it would actually make more sense to have both of them active and absorb damage rather than the highest one only
unless of course, they scale the # on the DR that WE the players receive, otherwise the DR system is working one sided towards mob favor

[Laith]

my biggest problem is that if DR stacks, AC becomes even less important.

this proposed change favors barbarians & WF heavily: creatures that both already have an advantage in the (currently) most important/common defensive traits in DDO: HP and DR.

[BattleCircle]

Have to agree,

AC stacks or whatever...

DR should too, its a barbs only real defense,

At the very least, barb dr boost should stack, and cost less....

[BattleCircle]

As I see it, and I am no expert by any means and don't really want to be....

AC reduces the chance of getting hit,

DR reduces the damage done by a hit....

Why make AC stack and not DR, barbs are still going to get hit, just not take [I]as much[I] damage. whereas high ac characters probably wouldn't get hit at all....

[Laith]

As I see it, and I am no expert by any means and don't really want to be....

AC reduces the chance of getting hit,

DR reduces the damage done by a hit....

Why make AC stack and not DR, barbs are still going to get hit, just not take [I]as much[I] damage. whereas high ac characters probably wouldn't get hit at all....

there are enough DR items/spells in the game already that allowing them to stack would allow you to ignore getting hit most of the time.

Even if you WERE dealt damage, the blow would be soft enough to cause little threat of death. Without even going into "of *block" items (that add glove and cloak slots), we've got the following without blocking:


Armor: 5/-
Trinket: 5/-
Barb: 7/-
Bard: 5/-
Stoneskin: 10/adamantine
---------------------
32/adamantine
22/-

currently, mobs do about 50 points of damage on a decent hit. this means you're blocking about 50% of damage through DR alone. Comprable to having a decent AC these days... but without a shield.

You guys are really over valuing the effect DR has in PnP, especially given how hard it is to come by.

[Turial]

As I see it, and I am no expert by any means and don't really want to be....

AC reduces the chance of getting hit,

DR reduces the damage done by a hit....

Why make AC stack and not DR, barbs are still going to get hit, just not take [i]as much[i] damage. whereas high ac characters probably wouldn't get hit at all....

Because there are different ways to bypass DR and typically if you are making it though the most powerful DR you will be passing the lesser DRs as well. 7 DR/- that barbs have is DR that nothing can bypass which is much stronger then 3 DR/ adamantine. It doesnt make sense for the two DR types to stack or two work in layers in the case of barbs because the DR/- will apply first because its more powerful then DR/ adamantine. For them to tack the game would have to apply the weakest DR first followed by the stronger DR's.

This would result in more mobs that are able to bypass forms of common DR as well as being able to deal more damage. We have seen this happen with AC (elite orthons [mob name not difficulty setting] can hit a 57 AC on a 7 or higher) as it becomes less useful...DR is slightly different from AC though in that some types of DR still work and mitigate damage even at the cap.

[Angelus_dead]

As a side comment, there are certain magic items in D&D which provide a special DR benefit that does stack. For an example see the goofy-looking Breastplate of Terror in Magic Item Compendium. It would be fine to add some specifically-stacking DR effects to DDO, as long as the items were designed with that in mind. Making existing DR sources stack would be wrong.

[Turial]

there are enough DR items/spells in the game already that allowing them to stack would allow you to ignore getting hit most of the time.

Even if you WERE dealt damage, the blow would be soft enough to cause little threat of death. Without even going into "of *block" items (that add glove and cloak slots), we've got the following without blocking:

Defiance Proc 20/-
Armor: 5/-
Trinket: 5/-
Barb: 7/-
Bard: 5/-
Stoneskin: 10/adamantine
---------------------
52/adamantine
42/-

currently, mobs do about 50 points of damage on a decent hit. this means you're blocking about 50% of damage through DR alone. Comprable to having a decent AC these days... but without a shield.

You guys are really over valuing the effect DR has in PnP, especially given how hard it is to come by.

A Warforged Barbarian would be effectively immune to non-spell damage without a sheild and essentially immune with a towershield and blocking. Thats bad mojo.

In order for warforged barbarians to be killed the mobs would have to deal out twice as much damage. This means that any non-warfoged will need atleast 50 DR or they will die much faster.

I'm all about boosting barbarian DR so its more effective (think cool enhancement rather then stacking).

[Jay203]

A Warforged Barbarian would be effectively immune to non-spell damage without a sheild and essentially immune with a towershield and blocking. Thats bad mojo.

In order for warforged barbarians to be killed the mobs would have to deal out twice as much damage. This means that any non-warfoged will need atleast 50 DR or they will die much faster.

I'm all about boosting barbarian DR so its more effective (think cool enhancement rather then stacking).

yet in order to go all out DR, one really have to have focus on it
which means they can't take ALL of the offensive enhancements a typical barb would be able to take
if the developers really want us to have fun making different types of character, they REALLY need to make it worthwhile for people to go all out into one path
as the game stands right now, defensive characters aren't as effective as offensive ones due to how close to obsolete designers have made defensive tactics

[BattleCircle]

Because there are different ways to bypass DR and typically if you are making it though the most powerful DR you will be passing the lesser DRs as well. 7 DR/- that barbs have is DR that nothing can bypass which is much stronger then 3 DR/ adamantine. It doesnt make sense for the two DR types to stack or two work in layers in the case of barbs because the DR/- will apply first because its more powerful then DR/ adamantine. For them to tack the game would have to apply the weakest DR first followed by the stronger DR's.

This would result in more mobs that are able to bypass forms of common DR as well as being able to deal more damage. We have seen this happen with AC (elite orthons [mob name not difficulty setting] can hit a 57 AC on a 7 or higher) as it becomes less useful...DR is slightly different from AC though in that some types of DR still work and mitigate damage even at the cap.

I understand the different DR's and no they should not stack, but 7/- should in my opinion, and I realize what opinions are like, should stack with DR boost, even if for only 30 sec or so. Should also stack with items of DR X/-,

[BattleCircle]

yet in order to go all out DR, one really have to have focus on it
which means they can't take ALL of the offensive enhancements a typical barb would be able to take
if the developers really want us to have fun making different types of character, they REALLY need to make it worthwhile for people to go all out into one path
as the game stands right now, defensive characters aren't as effective as offensive ones due to how close to obsolete designers have made defensive tactics

YES

I like this Idea, that way a barb could have say 350 hp but a DR that is comparable to highend AC builds

That would effectively allow for Barb tank builds.... tank being high intimidate builds that grab agro and turtle up so party can pick off the mobs.....

[Laith]

yet in order to go all out DR, one really have to have focus on it

untrue. the reason i didn't include all of those other things, was to show how LITTLE it would take to get more out of DR than AC: all without sacrificing DPS to hold a shield.

my example required 6ap points, 2 items, 2 buffs, and the choice of a decidedly OFFENSIVE class.
I didn't add in warforged with adamantine body and DR feats/enhancements (which, with a huge investment, goes up to DR9/adamantine currently).

you should try figuring out how expensive useful AC is.