Experienced player, first time Bard.

[bandyman1]

Actually, that's a little unture. I have made a bard, and played to fourth level, but deleted her in favor of a monk.

Regardless; I'm not " in the know " when it comes to building bards. So what I'd like is a useful build for endgame, that meets the following criteria;

1) Halfling. Sorry folks but these little guys are my favorite race.
2) Warchanter
3) TWFing with khopesh

I'm thinking 1 level of fighter for feat ( going to need WF:slashing, Imp. crit:slashing, GTWing, Extend, and Power attack I'm thinking ). One thing that concerns me is the Dex for GTWing interfering with the amount of Str. ( on a halfling no less ) I'm going to need for to-hit on a lower BaB class with non-finessable weapons. Although I'm guessing my bard buffs are going to come in to play.

Gear is not an issue. I have access to the best. However, I'd like to leave +2 tomes out of the equation from the start, until I'm comfortable with the build, I won't be dropping any on this toon. +1s are np. Also, I'm a little short on larges after equipping two min IIs on my tempest build, so I'd like to leave tier III GS items as a must out of the equation. They should enhance the build, not be a requirement from the get-go.

So, thanks in advance.

[bandyman1]

Bump. Still haven't gotten around to this toon.

Any advice would be appreciated.

[Cedrica-the-Bard]

I have just a couple of comments. I was playing around with starting stats on a 32 point halfling and I'd recommend the following:

S 16
D 16
C 14
I 8
W 8
Ch 12

If you ate a +1 Dex tome you'd have the GTWF dex requirement which would leave you able to put level up points into strength. Be aware that with a 12 Charisma to start, you'll probably end up with around 700 SP at end game for buffing (at a minimum) which is plenty for a Warchanter.

I find the trickiest part of playing a Warchanter is HP and BAB. If you can fit a Toughness feat in there you should. It's tough to get to 400 HP with a starting 14 Con and requires gear and dedicated focus to reach a respectable amount of HP for end game. While Displacement is a huge help to overcome the lack of AC and HP, many of the bosses at end game have true seeing and you will find you get whacked alot more than a tank type with comparable HP. So, to me, a starting 14 Con is a minimum and a must.

Second is the BAB issue. Divine Power clickies can help but don't last long so the Madstone boots are the easiest way to get fighter BAB, the trick is to time it with the short term buffs so that you aren't waiting around for the Madstone to wear off before you can displace and haste yourself again. Trust me, this can get irritating, lol.

Anyway, for now, those are the biggest pieces of advice I can offer. Hope this helps!

[Demoyn]

Those stats look pretty good. I personally might even drop the charisma by 2 and increase the con by 1 to account for a +3 tome.

The real problem here is going to be your feats. I don't think it's even possible to enjoy this build without at LEAST two levels of fighter, and that's going to keep you away from inspire heroics (dodge song) until the next mod (minimum 3 years away).

The must-have feats for this character are: two weapon fighting, improved two weapon fighting, greater two weapon fighting, weapon focus: slashing, power attack, exotic weapon proficiency: khopesh. That's already six feats, which is all you'd get without fighter.

Now you have to take one extra feat slot to squeeze in: extend spell, toughness, improved critical: slashing, and oversized two weapon fighting (warchanters have a low attack rating and dual khopesh won't help).

In reality you need to think about giving up either khopeshes or halfling (or both). I tried to make a human pure warchanter a few days ago and just couldn't find a way to fit the feats to my satisfaction. A halfling with one level of fighter will have the exact same issue.

[bandyman1]

The real problem here is going to be your feats. I don't think it's even possible to enjoy this build without at LEAST two levels of fighter, and that's going to keep you away from inspire heroics (dodge song) until the next mod (minimum 3 years away).

The must-have feats for this character are: two weapon fighting, improved two weapon fighting, greater two weapon fighting, weapon focus: slashing, power attack, exotic weapon proficiency: khopesh. That's already six feats, which is all you'd get without fighter.

Now you have to take one extra feat slot to squeeze in: extend spell, toughness, improved critical: slashing, and oversized two weapon fighting (warchanters have a low attack rating and dual khopesh won't help).

In reality you need to think about giving up either khopeshes or halfling (or both). I tried to make a human pure warchanter a few days ago and just couldn't find a way to fit the feats to my satisfaction. A halfling with one level of fighter will have the exact same issue.

Good catch. The original post is almost a year old, lol. So when I did the original feat breakdown, I was counting on Mino's Legens covering the toughness, as that was before they announced the fix. Humm, as for weapons....may have to do scimi's instead.

[Demoyn]

Good catch. The original post is almost a year old, lol. So when I did the original feat breakdown, I was counting on Mino's Legens covering the toughness, as that was before they announced the fix. Humm, as for weapons....may have to do scimi's instead.

There's a few different ways you can go with this. First you have to choose your level split.

Your best splits will be pure bard, 15 bard / 1 fighter, or 15 bard / 2 fighter. It really comes down to how much you want to maximize your bard buffs.

At level 20 bards will get another +1/+1 to their songs just for being a bard (not capstone, just class progression). This is the reason I was trying to make a pure warchanter the other day. At 15 / 1 you'll get the best buffs currently, but you won't get the best buffs at level 20. Going 14 / 2 will give you the best melee, but you'll have to wait until next mod to get inspire heroics, which is a staple for many raiding bards currently.

After you decide the split, the sacrifices you're willing to make to create a good build will be mostly evident. The other things you can do to help ease the feat requirements is to play human for the extra feat, elf/drow for the rapier enhancements, or dwarf (if taking fighter levels) for the waraxes and enhancements. If you're dead set on playing a halfling it can still work (and do better DPS if you gear more for that instead of songs), but that's just one of the sacrifices you have to add to your list.

The best warchanter I've put together is currently on page 6 of this forum. Noctus also made a few comments on how to get more DPS, but I wasn't willing to sacrifice inspire heroics. Maybe you should look it over and decide what you're willing to sacrifice and what you want to focus on the most, then we can get you a build together.

[bandyman1]

I have just a couple of comments. I was playing around with starting stats on a 32 point halfling and I'd recommend the following:

S 16
D 16
C 14
I 8
W 8
Ch 12

If you ate a +1 Dex tome you'd have the GTWF dex requirement which would leave you able to put level up points into strength. Be aware that with a 12 Charisma to start, you'll probably end up with around 700 SP at end game for buffing (at a minimum) which is plenty for a Warchanter.

I find the trickiest part of playing a Warchanter is HP and BAB. If you can fit a Toughness feat in there you should. It's tough to get to 400 HP with a starting 14 Con and requires gear and dedicated focus to reach a respectable amount of HP for end game. While Displacement is a huge help to overcome the lack of AC and HP, many of the bosses at end game have true seeing and you will find you get whacked alot more than a tank type with comparable HP. So, to me, a starting 14 Con is a minimum and a must.

Second is the BAB issue. Divine Power clickies can help but don't last long so the Madstone boots are the easiest way to get fighter BAB, the trick is to time it with the short term buffs so that you aren't waiting around for the Madstone to wear off before you can displace and haste yourself again. Trust me, this can get irritating, lol.

Anyway, for now, those are the biggest pieces of advice I can offer. Hope this helps!

TYVM for the advice.

[spifflove]

I have just a couple of comments. I was playing around with starting stats on a 32 point halfling and I'd recommend the following:

S 16
D 16
C 14
I 8
W 8
Ch 12

If you ate a +1 Dex tome you'd have the GTWF dex requirement which would leave you able to put level up points into strength. Be aware that with a 12 Charisma to start, you'll probably end up with around 700 SP at end game for buffing (at a minimum) which is plenty for a Warchanter.

I find the trickiest part of playing a Warchanter is HP and BAB. If you can fit a Toughness feat in there you should. It's tough to get to 400 HP with a starting 14 Con and requires gear and dedicated focus to reach a respectable amount of HP for end game. While Displacement is a huge help to overcome the lack of AC and HP, many of the bosses at end game have true seeing and you will find you get whacked alot more than a tank type with comparable HP. So, to me, a starting 14 Con is a minimum and a must.

Second is the BAB issue. Divine Power clickies can help but don't last long so the Madstone boots are the easiest way to get fighter BAB, the trick is to time it with the short term buffs so that you aren't waiting around for the Madstone to wear off before you can displace and haste yourself again. Trust me, this can get irritating, lol.

Anyway, for now, those are the biggest pieces of advice I can offer. Hope this helps!

This build already meets your criteria. Put all level ups into str.

1) twf
3) wf slash
6) PA
9) ic slash
12) itwf
15) gtwf
18) extend or khopesh

Go at it.

edited lol

[maddmatt70]

This build already meets your criteria. Put all level ups into str.

1) twf
3) khopesh
6) itwf
9) ic slash
12) extend
15) gtwf
18) toughness or optional

Go at it.

You forgot power attack and weapon focus to qualify for warchanter. Make mineral 2s and drop extend to make up the difference. Next mod you can determine what your last feat will be.

[WeaselKing]

Bump. Still haven't gotten around to this toon.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Change halfling to Warforged. Change twf with Khopesh to THF with Greataxe. 18 str take a 16 con and the rest in cha. Take Power Attack (of course it is WArchanter pre-req) and THF chain (will really be good next mod). Maybe fit in a SF:UMD or a Toughness and bam there you go.

[bandyman1]

Change halfling to Warforged. Change twf with Khopesh to THF with Greataxe. 18 str take a 16 con and the rest in cha. Take Power Attack (of course) and THF chain (will really be good next mod). Maybe fit in a SF:UMD or a Toughness and bam there you go.

LOL.

But I want to be a USEFUL bard Flesh :P

[Borror0]

I have made a bard, and played to fourth level, but deleted her in favor of a monk.

Have you lost your mind? No one would chose a monk over a warchanter, ever!

So what I'd like is a useful build for endgame, that meets the following criteria;

1) Halfling. Sorry folks but these little guys are my favorite race.
2) Warchanter
3) TWFing with khopesh

Personally, I'd go for:
15 Str
16 Dex
14 Con
8 Int
8 Wis
11 Cha

If you ever plan to use a +2 Dex tome, move your Dex to 15 and raise Cha by 1. Very insignificant gain overall, though.

As for the feats, I'd go for:
1. Toughness
3. Power Attack
6. Two-Weapon Fighting
9. Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
9. Weapon Focus: Slashing (fighter)
10. Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh
12. Improved Critical: Slashing
15. Greater Two-Weapon Fighting
18. Extend

I know you preferred to go 19b/1f but there is simply no advantage in doing so while going 18/2 grants you an extra feat, which you are starving for.

One thing that concerns me is the Dex for GTWing interfering with the amount of Str. ( on a halfling no less ) I'm going to need for to-hit on a lower BaB class with non-finessable weapons. Although I'm guessing my bard buffs are going to come in to play.

That's pretty much a non-issue. You have perma-Inspire Courage and have also Halfling Cunning IV, as a prereq to Halfling Guile.

[Shade]

As for the feats, I'd go for:
1. Toughness
3. Power Attack
6. Two-Weapon Fighting
9. Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
9. Weapon Focus: Slashing (fighter)
10. Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh
12. Improved Critical: Slashing
15. Greater Two-Weapon Fighting
18. Extend

It's pretty dumb to take toughness now. Take extend now. And toughness later on if and when that day comes where the enhancements are locked without it.

Cuz a warchanter without extend? lol.

[Borror0]

It's pretty dumb to take toughness now. Take extend now. And toughness later on if and when that day comes where the enhancements are locked without it.

Cuz a warchanter without extend? lol.

I prefer Toughness over Extend by a long mile. You'll have to cast Haste a bit more often, who cares?

[Aerendil]

The other option is to give up Warchanter for a more general-purpose Bard, the Virtuoso.
You lose Ironskin chant and slightly better Inspire Courage mods, but you gain 1 or 2 feats (depending how you work things) plus Enthrall. And you can stay pure 20 Bard.

I know the OP wanted Warchanter, but the more times I try to build a Bard, the more I realize Warchanter and TWF are very difficult to match perfectly without alienating the rest of your bardic abilities.

Just a thought, anyways.

*edit* - you might also want to seriously consider going Human. Again, another "not the OP's request" issue. But the extra feat for a Bard really can make or break a build :/

[Borror0]

The other option is to give up Warchanter for a more general-purpose Bard, the Virtuoso.

Virtuoso is a waste of AP. Warchanter, Spellsinger even, is good but Virtuoso is not worth the AP it costs.

[bandyman1]

Have you lost your mind? No one would chose a monk over a warchanter, ever!

Lol, like I said; My OP is a year old bro. Never capped the monk either, couldn't stand it, lmao .

I've freed up a couple of spots recently ( one for FvS ), and decided to add the warchanter to my stable.

I know you preferred to go 19b/1f but there is simply no advantage in doing so while going 18/2 grants you an extra feat, which you are starving for.

This is what I leaning toward now.

That's pretty much a non-issue. You have perma-Inspire Courage and have also Halfling Cunning IV, as a prereq to Halfling Guile.

That was what I was hoping. The numbers looked OK to me, but I don't play bards, so I wanted to make sure.


Thanks so much everyone for the advice. I gain insights with every post.

And Aerendil; Thank you for the discussion on the pros and cons of Virtuoso vs Warchanter. I appreciate it, as like I said; I really don't know much about bards. But I think I'm pretty much dead-set on WC.