Artificers in DDO: Possible or Viable?

[Aspenor]

Eberron has artificers as an adopted class for the campaign setting, and DDO doesn't have them.

Do you think this class could be implemented? How would it be done? What would an artificer's role be in DDO?

[NullWolf]

I think once real crafting has been introduced, they'd be able to implement Artificers.

As for their roles, I see a lot of party buffing, UMDing (since they get a plus to UMD) also, they can take up the duties of a trap-monkey since they can find and disable traps without taking levels of Rogue.

They're a pretty good support class, and have the potential to be able to bring in a lot of plat since they'd have some of the best crafting in the game.

It's been a while since I've looked at the actual PnP class, I'll have to look up the PnP skills / abilities after work. Then we can speculate on how they'd be changed to DDO. (I'd really love to be able to play an artificer in DDO though).

[Jondallar]

to craft mana pots, ddoor/wof/bb/ck and sf scrolls. they would need to beable to have a + 2lvl bonus on rr and caster checks and would be useless at end game unless they could use meta magics on wands/scrolls ect and had the ability to make things like lvl 16 fireball wands ect

[Zenako]

Probably not gonna happen.

Artificers and crafters in D&D are there to allow the characters to create specific items in what might otherwise be a situation where such items cannot be found. The gold and EXP hits are noticable, as is often the game time hit. D&D group needs to kill those hoards of giants in 4 days or the town is destroyed. In DDO it would be virtually impossible to make any of those limitations have any meaning. Lose a some EXP, so what. SPend some gold...so what, if you can make what you want. Time? What is time in a game like this. I head into Hound any time of the day or night, tonight or next week and the same challenge awaits. So in the context of the world, time has next to no meaning. So if you make crafting/artificing take meaningful in game time (so many hours logged on, or a simple real time clock that has to pass before you can make or produce your next item) then you might be able to make it work to some level. If it takes next to no time, then nothing stops the deep pockets from cranking out tons of items (ie easy buttons) if the full spectrum of items is available.

So clearly something significantly changed from the book mechanics would need to be developed. Looking at the Shroud crafting probably gives some insight into possible ways it could happen.

[Turial]

Eberron has artificers as an adopted class for the campaign setting, and DDO doesn't have them.

Do you think this class could be implemented? How would it be done? What would an artificer's role be in DDO?

It would be hard to do because a decent amount of artificer spells apply benafits to existing items similar to how holy sword works in pnp. Given that we cant do that in ddo (based on current holy sword) it would be a reduction in a substancial portion of the artificers powers.

[NullWolf]

It would be hard to do because a decent amount of artificer spells apply benafits to existing items similar to how holy sword works in pnp. Given that we cant do that in ddo (based on current holy sword) it would be a reduction in a substancial portion of the artificers powers.

I think this would be the main limitation.
Another option though would be to apply the Infusions directly to the character (the way handwraps do [are supposed to do ]), not the actual items.

As for the crafting, I could see having a timer, so you could create an item, then have to wait for the timer to drop in order to create another of that type of item. (They could even create enhancements to lower the time, but not be rid of it completely).
A timer would keep people from crafting items continually.
Something else, to put artificers above "regular" crafters, would be to give them the ability to bypass certain restrictions on crafting. (Say they don't have to use the uber-expensive ingredients). OR, something to restrict crafting in general. It'd be interesting if normal classes could only create either bound, or race restricted (to the crafter's race) items, but artificers could create unbound / non-restricted items.

Sure, they'd be slower to level maybe than standard classes, but I think they'd be useful during the entire game. (I'll have to look up the infusions etc after work again.)

I think after the real crafting is implemented AND if Infusions are applied like handwraps (are supposed to work), then artificers would be viable in DDO.

[JakLee7]

It could also be that they can craft certain things that are temporary in nature - instanced items so to speak. This would allow them to be viable to the party during the quest but keep them from becoming gold making machines.

[Angelus_dead]

Eberron has artificers as an adopted class for the campaign setting, and DDO doesn't have them.

Do you think this class could be implemented? How would it be done? What would an artificer's role be in DDO?

Yes, artificers can be added to DDO.

The key trick to a successful DDO version of artificers is to make the unpopular decision to remove crafting as a class feature. Many customers would dislike it because it breaks from the source version, but it'd have to be done. D&D's crafting rules are badly imbalanced, and the artificer just makes them worse.

Instead, the DDO artificers should be a combination support caster and pet master, a typical MMORPG role not yet included in DDO. The D&D artificers include a badly-written Homoncluous ability, which could be refocused as a primary combat function. Naturally, it would be easier for DDO to add in that kind of feature once the new henchmen system is in place.

[creithne]

I don't know much about PnP version of the class, but I keep hearing how great they'd be for making items and whatnot, but what would their role be in a quest? How would they play?

*edit* And I see A_D just offered an interesting possibility as I was writing this.

[NullWolf]

I don't know much about PnP version of the class, but I keep hearing how great they'd be for making items and whatnot, but what would their role be in a quest? How would they play?

*edit* And I see A_D just offered an interesting possibility as I was writing this.

Artificers also have Disable Device as a class skill, so could take over some trap-monkey duty too. Also gets a +2 class bonus to UMD (written as for items they've created, but would likely be set as a flat +2 for DDO).

Also like A_D's option. Though I'd want something other than the current dog's we have access to now... give the Artificer other things they can summon... have a little army of pets maybe...

[jmelanie7]

I think it would kill the rogue class, ok you dont get sneak attacks, but you get crafting, a bard like UMD, if not more and the ability to cast spells.
I would like to see the class being added in the future, tho they need to adjust alot of things, the classes i would like to see first is psionic classes and the binder. I sure want the druid too, tho I'm not a fan of em, but its a core class, so it must be added....

I can't wait to mindblast mindflayers to make them pay what they did to my other toons!!

As for races, I want half-orcs and Kalashtars to be inplemented, the later one when the psionics come out of course.

[WeaselKing]

Repair, Mass FTW!!

[Angelus_dead]

Also like A_D's option. Though I'd want something other than the current dog's we have access to now... give the Artificer other things they can summon... have a little army of pets maybe...

They'd at least get stuff like smaller, metalicized versions of the golems that already exist in DDO. I'd suggest than instead of an army, the Artificer only has one pet active at a time, which will allow the player to have more reliable control over it (and also prevent the dungeon hallways from clogging up when you get 3 artificers in party and each wants 3 pets). The artificer could have specific icons for Homonculous Move, Homon Attack, Homon Block, Homon Spell1, etc. In that way the player could be essentially controlling two characters at once- one a (weak, stupid) tank, and one the spellcaster either supporting it with magic, or fighting by its side.

[Angelus_dead]

I think it would kill the rogue class, ok you dont get sneak attacks, but you get crafting, a bard like UMD, if not more and the ability to cast spells.

It's true that the artificer would compete with rogues for the trapbusting job in a party, but that's already not too important to the value of the rogue class. Many quests don't have any traps, and even if they do it's probably not really important. If the trap is important, then a wiz15/rog1 can do it about as well as a pure rogue could.

Both rogues and artificers would get disable device + UMD skills, although rogues have spot and evasion to better survive the vicinity of traps. Bards (so far) are better than artificers at UMD, as they get the Focusing Chant spell at level 1. (To rectify, I'd suggest giving DDO Artificers enhancement series to boost UMD, something no other DDO class gets)

I can't wait to mindblast mindflayers to make them pay what they did to my other toons!!

The quickest way to get that added to DDO would be to introduce the Mental Pinnacle spell, which is to psions as Tenser's Transformation is to fighters.

[Turial]

....
Instead, the DDO artificers should be a combination support caster and pet master, a typical MMORPG role not yet included in DDO. The D&D artificers include a badly-written Homoncluous ability, which could be refocused as a primary combat function. Naturally, it would be easier for DDO to add in that kind of feature once the new henchmen system is in place.

So an Artificer would be an Arcane Druid without shapeshifting but some nicer skills, to boil it down.

[NullWolf]

They'd at least get stuff like smaller, metalicized versions of the golems that already exist in DDO. I'd suggest than instead of an army, the Artificer only has one pet active at a time, which will allow the player to have more reliable control over it (and also prevent the dungeon hallways from clogging up when you get 3 artificers in party and each wants 3 pets). The artificer could have specific icons for Homonculous Move, Homon Attack, Homon Block, Homon Spell1, etc. In that way the player could be essentially controlling two characters at once- one a (weak, stupid) tank, and one the spellcaster either supporting it with magic, or fighting by its side.

That'll work too... fun would be to have them look like mini versions of named Constructs / mobs (just for amusement, you could only have that one if you had actually fought that named, then you have to throw something at it... wait... wrong game ).

Edit:
Found a good list of the standard Infusions:
http://www.crystalkeep.com/d20/rules...-Artificer.pdf

Notice that Infusions can only be cast on objects and constructs.

This includes things like the Inflict Damage series, essentially Inflict Wounds for Constructs.
Also several infusions that would be WF only buffs (the Construct Essence line).

I could see them as a very viable class. (We'll have to see more depending on what its like when the full crafting is introduced.) [Maybe drop the crafting for A_D's idea, and have the infusions. Would be a major boon to the WF crowd, with some nice things for non-WF too.]

[Angelus_dead]

Notice that Infusions can only be cast on objects and constructs.

That is essentially a flavor restriction, and the only impact it might have in DDO is that an artificer would be unable to buff an absolutely naked ally, like those charmed chaos dogs in Hound of Xoriat. (And even then, conceptually he can squeeze a belt on it and put Bull's Strength on that).

[NullWolf]

That is essentially a flavor restriction, and the only impact it might have in DDO is that an artificer would be unable to buff an absolutely naked ally, like those charmed chaos dogs in Hound of Xoriat. (And even then, conceptually he can squeeze a belt on it and put Bull's Strength on that).

True. It'd be interesting though if they changed the infusions so that they can only be used on object that have an open "slot" (either missing a prefix or suffix). It make things a lot more difficult to decide on what you were wearing... (unless you're forged, then anything goes )

[Angelus_dead]

Here's one class ability DDO Artificers should get at level 1:

Magical Industry- When purchasing consumable magic items from vendors, an Artificer may use his Repair skill in place of his Haggle skill.

That ability represents the idea that the artificer can (help) craft the item in question. It gives him a reason to train up the Repair skill, which fits the theme of the class. And importantly, it compensates for his lack of the Haggle skill, something both the other DDO UMD classes (rogue and bard) can get. Someone with high UMD is going to want to buy a lot of wands and scrolls, so they'd like a way to keep the price down. Naturally, Artificers would be allowed to get AP enhancements to Repair, which would further help with the cost.

[Favis]

EDIT:
Changing my opinion about item creating feats after reading LunaCee suggestion to:
http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...1&postcount=23

focus on the bonus feats that are possible to tranlsate
Attune Magical Weapon gives +1 bonus to attack and damage
Craft Construct could be implemented as hirling and be a combination of this feat and the "Craft Homunculus".
Wand Mastery increase DC and spellpenetration of wands with +2.

Exceptional Artisan, Exra Rings, Extra ordinary Artisan, Legendary Artisan don't tranlate to DDO
A way of compencet for that is the you implement a improved version of each of above:

Improved Attune Magical Weapon gives +2 bonus to attack and damage
Improved Craft Construct/(or call it improved Craft Homunculus) could be implemented as stronger hirling type of WF "caracter"
improved Wand Mastery increase DC and spellpenetration of wands with +4
greater Attune Magical Weapon gives +3 bonus to attack and damage
greater Craft Construct/(or call it greater Craft Homunculus) could be implemented as stronger hirling type of WF "caracter"
greater Wand Mastery increase DC and spellpenetration of wands with +6

Let him learn spell the same way as Wizard
A easy why of translateing the spells are that Artificer would be able to learn all none-healing spells that can effect a WF. This would be done in the same way as Wizards learns new spells. (Only speaking about spells lvl 1-6 as Artificer can't use spells above lvl 6). He has the same number of spell, and spellpool as Bard but can swich out the spell at shrine like a Wizard.
When he lvls up he gain a limited numer of spells for "free" like:
lvl 1 : Inflict light damage, Repair light damage, Shield of faith, Nightshield
lvl 2: Bears Endurance, Bulls strength, Cat's grace, Eagle splendur, Fux cunning, Owls wisdom, inflict moderated damage, repair light damage
lvl 3: Construct energy ward, repair serious damage, inflict serious damage, Magic Circle Against Evil, Protection from Energy
lvl 4: Construct energy ward greater , globe of invlnerablitty, Iron Construct (construct gain DR 15/admantaine and takes half damage from acid and fire), repair critical damage, inflict critical damge
lvl 5: Distrupting weapon (make weapon temporary work as having distruptive), Protection from Elements, Repair Light Damage Mass, Spell Resistance, Greater Heroism
lvl 6: Blade barrrier, Disable construct (works as harm but only on constructs), Globe of involnerablity, Reconstruct, Repair Moderate Damage Mass

Spell that can be inscribed (buffspells that should be possible to think are a buff on armor as well as a WF. Might be some more)
lvl 1: Expeditious Retreat, Feather Fall, Mage Armor, Protection from Evil, Shield.
lvl 2: Blur, False Life, Invisibility
lvl 3: Displacement, Haste, Heroism, Rage
lvl 4: Stoneskin, Freedom of Movement
lvl 6: Bears Endurance mass, Bulls strength mass, Cat's grace mass, Eagle splendur mass, Fux cunning mass, Owls wisdom mass, True Seeing

Good UMD
Taking the rules for UMD right of Artificer would be the true master of UMD getting +2 bonus from Artisan Bonus.
(And then getting the choice get 10 instead of a d20? Or did I get the wrong?)

Cast spells like Wizard
Artificer don't get any specific slow casting but cast in the same speed as Bards and Wizards
The int decide the DC of the spell and bonus to spell pool and if Artificer can cast the spell. (This make that you can keep it fairly low compared to wizard. I would guess most would treate it as FvS treats charisma).

Pet master or mast of DC Wands
The 2 of PrE types could possible fit 2 of the bonus feats lines:
1 PrE that make a kind of Pet class
1 PrE that make him the master of using offencive wands that don't deal damage

Don't have a cleas idé about the last PrE but possible something that has do do with his typical spells.