Artificers in DDO: Possible or Viable?

[Aspenor]

Eberron has artificers as an adopted class for the campaign setting, and DDO doesn't have them.

Do you think this class could be implemented? How would it be done? What would an artificer's role be in DDO?

[NullWolf]

I think once real crafting has been introduced, they'd be able to implement Artificers.

As for their roles, I see a lot of party buffing, UMDing (since they get a plus to UMD) also, they can take up the duties of a trap-monkey since they can find and disable traps without taking levels of Rogue.

They're a pretty good support class, and have the potential to be able to bring in a lot of plat since they'd have some of the best crafting in the game.

It's been a while since I've looked at the actual PnP class, I'll have to look up the PnP skills / abilities after work. Then we can speculate on how they'd be changed to DDO. (I'd really love to be able to play an artificer in DDO though).

[Jondallar]

to craft mana pots, ddoor/wof/bb/ck and sf scrolls. they would need to beable to have a + 2lvl bonus on rr and caster checks and would be useless at end game unless they could use meta magics on wands/scrolls ect and had the ability to make things like lvl 16 fireball wands ect

[Zenako]

Probably not gonna happen.

Artificers and crafters in D&D are there to allow the characters to create specific items in what might otherwise be a situation where such items cannot be found. The gold and EXP hits are noticable, as is often the game time hit. D&D group needs to kill those hoards of giants in 4 days or the town is destroyed. In DDO it would be virtually impossible to make any of those limitations have any meaning. Lose a some EXP, so what. SPend some gold...so what, if you can make what you want. Time? What is time in a game like this. I head into Hound any time of the day or night, tonight or next week and the same challenge awaits. So in the context of the world, time has next to no meaning. So if you make crafting/artificing take meaningful in game time (so many hours logged on, or a simple real time clock that has to pass before you can make or produce your next item) then you might be able to make it work to some level. If it takes next to no time, then nothing stops the deep pockets from cranking out tons of items (ie easy buttons) if the full spectrum of items is available.

So clearly something significantly changed from the book mechanics would need to be developed. Looking at the Shroud crafting probably gives some insight into possible ways it could happen.

[Turial]

Eberron has artificers as an adopted class for the campaign setting, and DDO doesn't have them.

Do you think this class could be implemented? How would it be done? What would an artificer's role be in DDO?

It would be hard to do because a decent amount of artificer spells apply benafits to existing items similar to how holy sword works in pnp. Given that we cant do that in ddo (based on current holy sword) it would be a reduction in a substancial portion of the artificers powers.

[NullWolf]

It would be hard to do because a decent amount of artificer spells apply benafits to existing items similar to how holy sword works in pnp. Given that we cant do that in ddo (based on current holy sword) it would be a reduction in a substancial portion of the artificers powers.

I think this would be the main limitation.
Another option though would be to apply the Infusions directly to the character (the way handwraps do [are supposed to do ]), not the actual items.

As for the crafting, I could see having a timer, so you could create an item, then have to wait for the timer to drop in order to create another of that type of item. (They could even create enhancements to lower the time, but not be rid of it completely).
A timer would keep people from crafting items continually.
Something else, to put artificers above "regular" crafters, would be to give them the ability to bypass certain restrictions on crafting. (Say they don't have to use the uber-expensive ingredients). OR, something to restrict crafting in general. It'd be interesting if normal classes could only create either bound, or race restricted (to the crafter's race) items, but artificers could create unbound / non-restricted items.

Sure, they'd be slower to level maybe than standard classes, but I think they'd be useful during the entire game. (I'll have to look up the infusions etc after work again.)

I think after the real crafting is implemented AND if Infusions are applied like handwraps (are supposed to work), then artificers would be viable in DDO.

[JakLee7]

It could also be that they can craft certain things that are temporary in nature - instanced items so to speak. This would allow them to be viable to the party during the quest but keep them from becoming gold making machines.

[creithne]

I don't know much about PnP version of the class, but I keep hearing how great they'd be for making items and whatnot, but what would their role be in a quest? How would they play?

*edit* And I see A_D just offered an interesting possibility as I was writing this.

[NullWolf]

I don't know much about PnP version of the class, but I keep hearing how great they'd be for making items and whatnot, but what would their role be in a quest? How would they play?

*edit* And I see A_D just offered an interesting possibility as I was writing this.

Artificers also have Disable Device as a class skill, so could take over some trap-monkey duty too. Also gets a +2 class bonus to UMD (written as for items they've created, but would likely be set as a flat +2 for DDO).

Also like A_D's option. Though I'd want something other than the current dog's we have access to now... give the Artificer other things they can summon... have a little army of pets maybe...

[jmelanie7]

I think it would kill the rogue class, ok you dont get sneak attacks, but you get crafting, a bard like UMD, if not more and the ability to cast spells.
I would like to see the class being added in the future, tho they need to adjust alot of things, the classes i would like to see first is psionic classes and the binder. I sure want the druid too, tho I'm not a fan of em, but its a core class, so it must be added....

I can't wait to mindblast mindflayers to make them pay what they did to my other toons!!

As for races, I want half-orcs and Kalashtars to be inplemented, the later one when the psionics come out of course.

[Angelus_dead]

Eberron has artificers as an adopted class for the campaign setting, and DDO doesn't have them.

Do you think this class could be implemented? How would it be done? What would an artificer's role be in DDO?

Yes, artificers can be added to DDO.

The key trick to a successful DDO version of artificers is to make the unpopular decision to remove crafting as a class feature. Many customers would dislike it because it breaks from the source version, but it'd have to be done. D&D's crafting rules are badly imbalanced, and the artificer just makes them worse.

Instead, the DDO artificers should be a combination support caster and pet master, a typical MMORPG role not yet included in DDO. The D&D artificers include a badly-written Homoncluous ability, which could be refocused as a primary combat function. Naturally, it would be easier for DDO to add in that kind of feature once the new henchmen system is in place.

[Turial]

....
Instead, the DDO artificers should be a combination support caster and pet master, a typical MMORPG role not yet included in DDO. The D&D artificers include a badly-written Homoncluous ability, which could be refocused as a primary combat function. Naturally, it would be easier for DDO to add in that kind of feature once the new henchmen system is in place.

So an Artificer would be an Arcane Druid without shapeshifting but some nicer skills, to boil it down.

[Favis]

EDIT:
Changing my opinion about item creating feats after reading LunaCee suggestion to:
http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...1&postcount=23

focus on the bonus feats that are possible to tranlsate
Attune Magical Weapon gives +1 bonus to attack and damage
Craft Construct could be implemented as hirling and be a combination of this feat and the "Craft Homunculus".
Wand Mastery increase DC and spellpenetration of wands with +2.

Exceptional Artisan, Exra Rings, Extra ordinary Artisan, Legendary Artisan don't tranlate to DDO
A way of compencet for that is the you implement a improved version of each of above:

Improved Attune Magical Weapon gives +2 bonus to attack and damage
Improved Craft Construct/(or call it improved Craft Homunculus) could be implemented as stronger hirling type of WF "caracter"
improved Wand Mastery increase DC and spellpenetration of wands with +4
greater Attune Magical Weapon gives +3 bonus to attack and damage
greater Craft Construct/(or call it greater Craft Homunculus) could be implemented as stronger hirling type of WF "caracter"
greater Wand Mastery increase DC and spellpenetration of wands with +6

Let him learn spell the same way as Wizard
A easy why of translateing the spells are that Artificer would be able to learn all none-healing spells that can effect a WF. This would be done in the same way as Wizards learns new spells. (Only speaking about spells lvl 1-6 as Artificer can't use spells above lvl 6). He has the same number of spell, and spellpool as Bard but can swich out the spell at shrine like a Wizard.
When he lvls up he gain a limited numer of spells for "free" like:
lvl 1 : Inflict light damage, Repair light damage, Shield of faith, Nightshield
lvl 2: Bears Endurance, Bulls strength, Cat's grace, Eagle splendur, Fux cunning, Owls wisdom, inflict moderated damage, repair light damage
lvl 3: Construct energy ward, repair serious damage, inflict serious damage, Magic Circle Against Evil, Protection from Energy
lvl 4: Construct energy ward greater , globe of invlnerablitty, Iron Construct (construct gain DR 15/admantaine and takes half damage from acid and fire), repair critical damage, inflict critical damge
lvl 5: Distrupting weapon (make weapon temporary work as having distruptive), Protection from Elements, Repair Light Damage Mass, Spell Resistance, Greater Heroism
lvl 6: Blade barrrier, Disable construct (works as harm but only on constructs), Globe of involnerablity, Reconstruct, Repair Moderate Damage Mass

Spell that can be inscribed (buffspells that should be possible to think are a buff on armor as well as a WF. Might be some more)
lvl 1: Expeditious Retreat, Feather Fall, Mage Armor, Protection from Evil, Shield.
lvl 2: Blur, False Life, Invisibility
lvl 3: Displacement, Haste, Heroism, Rage
lvl 4: Stoneskin, Freedom of Movement
lvl 6: Bears Endurance mass, Bulls strength mass, Cat's grace mass, Eagle splendur mass, Fux cunning mass, Owls wisdom mass, True Seeing

Good UMD
Taking the rules for UMD right of Artificer would be the true master of UMD getting +2 bonus from Artisan Bonus.
(And then getting the choice get 10 instead of a d20? Or did I get the wrong?)

Cast spells like Wizard
Artificer don't get any specific slow casting but cast in the same speed as Bards and Wizards
The int decide the DC of the spell and bonus to spell pool and if Artificer can cast the spell. (This make that you can keep it fairly low compared to wizard. I would guess most would treate it as FvS treats charisma).

Pet master or mast of DC Wands
The 2 of PrE types could possible fit 2 of the bonus feats lines:
1 PrE that make a kind of Pet class
1 PrE that make him the master of using offencive wands that don't deal damage

Don't have a cleas idé about the last PrE but possible something that has do do with his typical spells.

[Favis]

LunaCee mabe a realy creative though about how to add item creation as Artificer:

Artificer...

Just work it like the paladin's special weapons. The magic items they can make last for the duration of the quest and consume a material component so as not to flood the market and make it so that they aren't forced to spend massive amounts of money and XP as per PnP item creation. So they can wander in and make a temporary ring of Freedom of Movement for example if the quest has a lot of hold spells being thrown around for example and the meet the requirements to make it... and then hand it off to the barbarian or fighter that needs it.

Basically it would be a class with a few hot-bars of per shrine clickies.

And hey its an INT based class that has UMD and can disable traps!

Basically at low levels they can produce a few pots per shrine of various useful stuff. So if fighter needs a little more STR to open a door the artificer whips up a temporary bull's potion. Maybe a lesser restoration potion... maybe when they have a few more levels under their belt some potions of remove curse, blindness, neutralize poison...

A little higher they would maybe at the start of the quest give the fighter a temporary STR boosting belt.

A little higher than that they might cook up a 7th level resist energy wand (or better) and spare the regular caster's SP.

The thing that would be grand in my book is when they hit 14th they would be able to make temporary rings! Hello ring of Freedom of Movement or something of similar situational value that lasts an entire quest.

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...69&postcount=5

[Favis]

Modifing LunaCee suggestion:

lvl 1 feat: lesser Scribe scroll
You can scribe x scrolls of spells that you know.
The scrolls that you create disapear ones you leave the instance.

lvl 2 feat: Brew portion:
You can create y portions of a 3rd or lower spell that you know.
The portions that you create disapear ones you leave the instance.

lvl 3 feat: craft least wand
You can create z wands or 2nd or lower spells that you know.
The wands that you create disapear ones you leave the instance.

lvl 5 feat: craft lesser wand¨
(The effect replace craft least wand)
You can create z wands or 3nd or lower spells that you know.
The wands that you create disapear ones you leave the instance.

lvl 7 feat Craft Wand:
(The effect replace craft lesser wand)
You can create wands even if you don't have the spell on you spell list.
To be able to create the wand you need to have the same UMD that is need it create the item.
You can now craft z wands of 4nd or lower spells.
To create the wand you need to have one scroll of the same type as the wand you like to create.
You target the scroll in the same way as when you incrible a spell. But the scroll is still there after the wand is created.
The wands that you create disapear ones you leave the instance.

lvl 9 feat improved Craft Wand:
You can now create z wands with caster lvl 10.

lvl 13 Scribe scroll
You can now create scrolls even if you don't have the spell on you spell list.
The scrolls are created in the same way as "Craft Wands".
The scrolls that you create disapear ones you leave the instance.

Have removed the option to create none consumable items for two reasons:
1) There allready exist a process for crating in DDO even if I could see a limited use like creating a weapon for himself (same way as paladin).
2) I think many player will feel it takes to much take to swich out the armor, rings, weapon that they have for the stuff that the Artifacter hand over to them.

But as you in the end will have the option to create every possible scroll in DDO the item-creating-only-to-use-in-instance can still be a intresting option.

[Kalari]

Ive been thinking about it since this game is good with veering from complete traditional dungeons and dragons and adding their own touch instead of Artificer being a established class release it as a PRE for Wizards

Give them amplified crafting ability thus giving us options to create potions, wands and rods even limited charged ones.

Amplified reconstruction and construct forging- by this I mean reconstruction would be a way to raise warforge instead of raised dead, repair and the like would be raised as well anyone barring the marks of making (dont laugh I have a wizard and sorc with these they come in handy in raids) benefit from this as well. Construct forging allow us to summon sentient constructs (give the animation maybe a hammer hitting an anvil and a chance at a random construct no bigger then an defender but change it up a bit maybe an iron imp or small mephits that are made of metal/live wood).

Rune forging this ties into the crafting the ability to design traps via runes and lay them about, it would be faster then casting spells and require material components and be completely random from a sleet storm trap to a hole opening up and swallowing the enemies into spikes or forever trapping them. Potions made with this technique would range from beneficial oils and elixers to flasks of fire that do serious damage to the enemies.

Im not sure how to break down the ap's and stuff i'll give more thought to it but I really feel that if they cannot make the class viable due to some of the factor's given in this thread they can change it some and make it a welcomed arcane prestige line. Now I wont lie I have wizards more in mind for this then sorcerors but I wouldnt care if they opened it up to any arcane wizard or sorceror Id still be happy.

*Edit* another ability I thought of is "craft body" which would allow the caster to give themselves natural fortification this to would require components (expensive) and threw expert knowledge a arcane who is under this line can give themselves a natural boost to fortification magic armor basically. (I have to work on this more but I can really see this as a viable way to bring an artificer like template to the game)

[Xenus_Paradox]

Random ideas I've had kicking around in my head for a while re: Artificer-

-Grant Iron Companion/Adamantine Companion/Mithral Companion as class features, add ability to summon Shrieking Defender, Ancient Warforged and miniature Titan (hezrou-sized, with powers scaled down, ie Improved Trip instead of AoE knockdown) at higher levels. Allow multiple lower-level pets to be summoned instead of one higher-level (ie at 20th, can summon 1 mini-Titan, 2 Ancient WF, OR 3 Shrieking Defenders)

-Bonus to Haggle checks (or straight percentage discount) when buying scrolls, wands, potions, and other consumables.

-Magic Weapon and Magic Vestment. Replaces existing enhancement bonus on ally's weapons/armor (if higher) with bonus based on caster level.

-AoE buff that adds elemental damage type to all allies' weapons (possibly with accept/decline dialog box ala Raise Dead to prevent griefing).

-Spell that gives equipment temporary Durability (works like temp HP).

[Favis]

Possible Enhancement for Artificers:

Artificers Transmutation Manipulation IV
Usage: Passive
Cost: 4 action points
Spent: 32 action points
Requires All of: Wizard Transmutation Manipulation III
Available to Artificers class level 10
Grants an additional 10% increase to the damage or effectiveness of your inflict, disable and repair spells, bringing the total increase to 40%.

Artificers Improved Metamagic III
Usage: Passive
Cost: 6 action points
Spent: 30 action points
Requires All of: Artificers Improved Metamagic II
Available to Artificers class level 10
Using any of the Quicken Spell, Maximizing and Empowering feat costs you 3 fewer spell points (for each of them).

Artificers Energy of the (Artificers) IV
Usage: Passive
Cost: 4 action points
Spent: 44 action points
Requires All of: Artificers Energy of the (Artificers) III
Available to Artificers class level 13
Grants an additional 20 spell points, bringing your total increase to 80 points.

Artificers Wand Effect IV
Usage: Passive
Cost: 4 action points
Spent: 36 action points
Requires All of: Artificers Wand Effect III
Available to Artificers class level 11
Grants an additional 20% increase to the effectiveness of your wands 100%.

Artificers Wand Heightening III
Usage: Passive
Cost: 3 action points
Spent: 37 action points
Requires All of: Artificers Wand Heightening II
Available to Bard class level 11
You add an additional +1 to the DC of your offensive wands, bringing the total increase to 3.


Artificers Wand penetration III
Usage: Passive
Cost: 3 action points
Spent: 37 action points
Requires All of: Artificers Wand penetration II
Available to Artificers class level 11
You add an additional +2 to the spellpenetration of your offensive wands, bringing the total increase to 6.

Wand Creation
Usage: Passive
Cost: 4 action points
Spent: 8 action points
Requires All of: Artificers Repair I
Available to Artificers class level 4
When purchasing Wand from vendors, an Artificer use his Repair skill in place of his Haggle skill.


Artificers Charisma II
Usage: Passive
Cost: 4 action points
Spent: 24 action points
Requires All of: Artificers Charisma I
Available to Favored Soul class level 8
Grants an additional +1 to your Charisma score.


Artificers Intelligence III
Usage: Passive
Cost: 6 action points
Spent: 30 action points
Requires All of: Artificers Intelligence II
Available to Artificers class level 10
Grants an additional +1 to your Intelligence score.

Artificers Concentration IV
Usage: Passive
Cost: 4 action points
Spent: 40 action points
Requires All of: Artificers Concentration III
Available to Artificers class level 12
Grants an additional +1 bonus to your Concentration skill, bringing the total increase to 4.

Artificers Repair IV
Usage: Passive
Cost: 4 action points
Spent: 40 action points
Requires All of: Artificers Repair III
Available to Artificers class level 12
Grants an additional +1 bonus to your Repair skill, bringing the total increase to 4.

Artificers Disable Device IV
Usage: Passive
Cost: 4 action points
Spent: 40 action points
Requires All of: Artificers Disable Device III
Available to Artificers class level 12
Grants an additional +1 bonus to your Disable Device skill, bringing the total increase to 4.

Artificers Open Lock IV
Usage: Passive
Cost: 4 action points
Spent: 40 action points
Requires All of: Artificers Open Lock III
Available to Artificers class level 12
Grants an additional +1 bonus to your Open Lock skill, bringing the total increase to 4.

Artificers Search IV
Usage: Passive
Cost: 4 action points
Spent: 40 action points
Requires All of: Artificers Search III
Available to Artificers class level 12
Grants an additional +1 bonus to your Search skill, bringing the total increase to 4.

Improved Homunculus attack I, II, III, IV

Improved Homunculus AC I, II, III, IV

Improved Homunculus saves I, II, III, IV

Improved Homunculus speed I, II, III, IV

Improved Homunculus hitpoint I, II, III, IV

Artificers Wandmaster I
Usage: Passive
Cost: 4 action points
Spent: 16 action points
Requires All of: Wand Creation, Artificers Wand Effect I, Artificers Wand Heightening I,Artificers Wand Penetration I, Artificers Repair I, Wand Mastery(feat)
Available to Artificers class level 6
Wand Mastery increase DC and spellpenetration of wands with +2

Artificers Wandmaster II
Usage: Passive
Cost: 2 action points
Spent: 42 action points
Requires One of: Artificers Wand Effect II, Artificers Wand Heightening II, Artificers Wand Penetration II
Requires All of: Artificers Wandmaster I, , Artificers Repair II, Improved Wand Mastery (feat)
Available to Artificers class level 12
Wand Mastery II grants aadditional increase of DC and spellpenetration of wands with +2

Artificers Wandmaster III
Usage: Passive
Cost: 2 action points
Spent: 66 action points
Requires One of: Artificers Wand Effect III, Artificers Wand Heightening III, Artificers Wand Penetration III
Requires All of: Artificers Wandmaster II , Artificers Repair III, Greate Wand Mastery (feat)
Available to Artificers class level 12
Wand Mastery II grants aadditional increase of DC and spellpenetration of wands with +2

Homunculus Master I
Homunculus Master II
Homunculus Master III