32 Point build Fighter

[ddoatsu]

I've been playing ddo going on two months now and am about 200 rep away from unlocking 32 point build characters on my account. I'm usually grouped up with 3 of my real life friends and we're all planning on rerolling new chars once we get the 32 point builds.

I decided I'd be the tank of the group and go some variant of Fighter.

Originally my goal was to stay as true as I could to pure fighter as possible, however i've been reading most of the discussions on builds the past few weeks and it looks like you pretty much gimp yourself by going that route.

So with that said. I'm looking for a build that is mainly a fighter but with whatever class splashed in that will allow me to perform more effectively.
I've read about the fighter/palys and the fighter/rangers/monks(Don't know if I can afford this one).
I don't have a preference on twf, thf, etc. I just want good ac, saves, good damage(doesn't have to be great since the rest of my team will be helping in that area.)

Post builds please! (End game capable is important to me)

[Daedalis]

Hi ddoatsu,

check out this thread for a pure fighter build and an awesome build.. http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php...ighlight=riott ..I have 2 of based on this build and both are 32 pt builds. One is WF and the other is dwarf. They are a blast to play and when the Intimidate is issued....everything turns to my attention....I love it! I've made a few changes to this build just to make it my own. I'm taking crit enhancement line to better be able to confirm the crits. and I'm losing the saves for another set of feats, but right now it escapes me as to what I've taken instead.

If this doesn't suit your taste, I believe we will need more information as far as what you want to do with the build. Do you want higher saves, more damage, more AC, high HP, two handed fighting, two weapon fighting? There are a lot of people on here with great builds...I'm sure someone will have something for you.

later,
Dae

[krud]

Hi ddoatsu,

check out this thread for a pure fighter build and an awesome build.. http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php...ighlight=riott ..I have 2 of based on this build and both are 32 pt builds. One is WF and the other is dwarf. They are a blast to play and when the Intimidate is issued....everything turns to my attention....I love it! I've made a few changes to this build just to make it my own. I'm taking crit enhancement line to better be able to confirm the crits. and I'm losing the saves for another set of feats, but right now it escapes me as to what I've taken instead.

If this doesn't suit your taste, I believe we will need more information as far as what you want to do with the build. Do you want higher saves, more damage, more AC, high HP, two handed fighting, two weapon fighting? There are a lot of people on here with great builds...I'm sure someone will have something for you.

later,
Dae

good build in that link, but I think that build could really benefit from 2 levels of paladin (that's an older build so i'm sure a pally splash got mentioned somewhere in those 11 pages of replies). Make wisdom a dump stat, put those points into CHA, and take force of personality. The bonus to your saves will more than make up for the few feats you lose. You could drop luck of heroes, lightning reflexes, iron will, and you still come out ahead on your saves. Plus you get a better intimidate and umd, and some nice wand usage to back up a cleric thru the mid-levels.

[maddmatt70]

Hi ddoatsu,

check out this thread for a pure fighter build and an awesome build.. http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php...ighlight=riott ..I have 2 of based on this build and both are 32 pt builds. One is WF and the other is dwarf. They are a blast to play and when the Intimidate is issued....everything turns to my attention....I love it! I've made a few changes to this build just to make it my own. I'm taking crit enhancement line to better be able to confirm the crits. and I'm losing the saves for another set of feats, but right now it escapes me as to what I've taken instead.

If this doesn't suit your taste, I believe we will need more information as far as what you want to do with the build. Do you want higher saves, more damage, more AC, high HP, two handed fighting, two weapon fighting? There are a lot of people on here with great builds...I'm sure someone will have something for you.

later,
Dae

The build you refer to doesn't do good damage like the op requests.. I will post the iron monk as that build has more dps, higher ac and better saves.... Edit: wants a variant of fighter: Try the below build except go with dwarf instead of elf. The advantage is you get tempest, evasion, wisdom to ac, nice dps, nice natural saves, dwarven hit points, etc..

checking..http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=149322

[Hadrian]

You're not going to make a good solid intimitank that also has high DPS without running into some rare and expensive items as a barrier.

The problem is that you either have a shield in your hand or you don't.

If you don't, you can have very good damage, but your AC is going to suffer greatly unless you build very specifically to compensate for that. These builds tend to rely on lots of rare or expensive items.

If you do, your DPS will never be "good." You can equip a very nice intimidation tank fairly cheaply, though. The "uber items" that you'll want to set as your goal are a +5 mithral tower and +5 mithral full plate. The new raids have a very nice set of +5 MFP and a very nice mithral tower, so the prices on the regular items are currently very low. You're not going to find a cheaper high AC melee character to equip.

Riott's build is a good template, but by the numbers a paladin splash is superior. You'll have a higher ac and higher saves, and though you'll lose feats, you can drop the feats that he used to boost saves and still come out ahead.

On the other side of that are rumors that pure fighters may be getting a significant boost in future mods, which might mean that pure fighter will be worth it in the long run if you're willing to wait and to risk building without knowing what those boosts will do.


PS. I hate to mention the Riott build in a thread and disagree with something, because he's very protective of his build and may pop up to tell me that his build is fine the way it is. Just remember that he has been playing for a long time and in a guild that works to see its members equipped as well as possible. There is no such thing as a rare item for him, and that goes a long way to covering weaknesses in any build. If you do not have the same resources, you'll be building from a point of view that he's not sharing when he tells you his stories about the great things his build can do. Just keep that in mind.

[maddmatt70]

You're not going to make a good solid intimitank that also has high DPS without running into some rare and expensive items as a barrier.

The problem is that you either have a shield in your hand or you don't.

If you don't, you can have very good damage, but your AC is going to suffer greatly unless you build very specifically to compensate for that. These builds tend to rely on lots of rare or expensive items.

If you do, your DPS will never be "good." You can equip a very nice intimidation tank fairly cheaply, though. The "uber items" that you'll want to set as your goal are a +5 mithral tower and +5 mithral full plate. The new raids have a very nice set of +5 MFP and a very nice mithral tower, so the prices on the regular items are currently very low. You're not going to find a cheaper high AC melee character to equip.

I am just thinking of a 4 person group without any melee dps and it quite frankly doesn't work. They need melee dps. I would say a monk splash twf can get a high ac, have similiar saves, and do alot more dps. That build is going to be far more successful. I don't know why you think the intimidate skill is necessary to be successful as evidenced by the very few people in game that use it, lol..

[Hadrian]

What? Who said anything about no melee DPS? He didn't say what other classes were in his group. Just that he was the tank, and that the remainder of his group had DPS covered.

Tank is not interchangable with melee.

[maddmatt70]

What? Who said anything about no melee DPS? He didn't say what other classes were in his group. Just that he was the tank, and that the remainder of his group had DPS covered.

Tank is not interchangable with melee.

Yeah he wants to have ac, but I read good damage as well. The monk splash twf builds have these features and can get nice saves in addition. I am not personally invested in this one way or another as I do not a have a sword and board high ac character or a monk splash character, but I can tell from the personal experience of running around with some of these characters just how powerful they are. I get the decided impression that there are alot of biased people posting on these threads who stray from in game observation. Well my in game observation is ranger/monk are the best ac characters and a fighter variant would also be successful.

By the way you don't necessarily require super gear as you put forth for these character as you can still get ac close to 60 with some build tweaking without much real gear.

[johnrbimmer]

Based on your comments, I think if you were to build an Intimitank (i.e. 13 Figther/3 Paly or even a 12 Paly/4 Fighter) you would be able to hold agro without taking to much damage (i.e. intimidate then turtle behind the shield), while the other members of the party go to town, you would be able to manage very well. This works really well if one your party members is a rogue/tempest build (i.e. 10 rogue/6 ranger - free backstabs at 5d6 per attack...not too shabby).

If you go with the fighter/paly build, you will have enough feats to take Greater Weapon Specialization (+4 dmg per hit) for those times you are not shield blocking with the agro and take shield mastery feats for the extra 6 points (9 if you go dwarf and max enhancements) of blocking dr and easily end up with 24-30 points of dr reduction plus stoneskin for another 10 dr (which is a good number at any point in the game - its seems to work well for my intimitank).

You might want to check out Dexxan's Bruttus Chaosbane build (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=126290). While he has all the top end equipment, you can be at 85-90% of his capabilities without too much effort.

Best of luck and sounds like a fun 4 person party to build around.

[Hadrian]

By the way you don't necessarily require super gear as you put forth for these character as you can still get ac close to 60 with some build tweaking without much real gear.

I don't know why you should start throwing accusations of bias at me. I have both a heavy melee and a ranger/monk. The ranger is superior in DPS but inferior in hit points and damage resistance. Saves are not a problem with either. However, the ranger was far more expensive to equip and requires more rare named items.

You can get the essential items on the intimitank for about 350-400k plat, plus some common raid drops that almost everyone has, and you don't need to make matching sets of green steel weapons.

Focus on DPS and the bloodstone costs you as much or more, plus you're looking for very rare 8 AC bracers and icy raiments instead of mithral FP and tower.

The only real pain in the butt for the heavy intimidation tank is the chattering ring. The ranger has a lot of them.

[maddmatt70]

I don't know why you should start throwing accusations of bias at me. I have both a heavy melee and a ranger/monk. The ranger is superior in DPS but inferior in hit points and damage resistance. Saves are not a problem with either. However, the ranger was far more expensive to equip and requires more rare named items.

You can get the essential items on the intimitank for about 350-400k plat, plus some common raid drops that almost everyone has, and you don't need to make matching sets of green steel weapons.

Focus on DPS and the bloodstone costs you as much or more, plus you're looking for very rare 8 AC bracers and icy raiments instead of mithral FP and tower.

The only real pain in the butt for the heavy intimidation tank is the chattering ring. The ranger has a lot of them.

I just flat out wouldn't make a sword and board or at least a build that sword and board was their only method of operation in ddo right now. That might change with mod 8 or mod 9 or what have you, but I just wouldn't in game currently just too gimped. The icy rainment is 4 ac sure, but even with just +7 bracers the ranger/monk has a better ac then a fully configured and geared up defensive sword and board. You don't need a bloodstone to still out dps by over 40% with twf..

[Hadrian]

The icy rainment is 4 ac sure, but even with just +7 bracers the ranger/monk has a better ac then a fully configured and geared up defensive sword and board.

Well, two problems with that. First, the AC is about the same if you don't include the raiments and 8 ac bracers. I'll show the AC breakdown assuming all relevant +2 tomes are consumed, but using a white scale robe or enlightened vestments + chaosgarde for an additional 1 AC over 7 armor bracers, since this is the highest AC option.


10 base
13 full plate
9 tower
7 dex bonus (dwarf, assuming at least 11 fighter levels or 6 dex bonus non dwarf)
6 dodge (feat + chaosgarde + ring)
5 protection
5 CE
4 insight
3 barkskin potion
2 self paladin aura
1 alchemical armor
1 alchemical shield

66 self buffed (65 non dwarf)

12Ranger/3pally/1monk

10 base
12 dex
6 armor
6 wis
6 dodge (same as above)
5 protection
5 CE
5 barkskin (assuming at least 12 ranger levels)
4 insight
2 tempest
2 paladin aura
1 alchemical armor

64 (66 against favored enemy if you have 13 ranger levels and take those enhancements)

You could add one more AC for halfling, but then you take a large penalty to intimidation checks, and this build doesn't get intimidate as a primary skill.

Keep in mind that this consumes two +2 tomes for the ranger hybrid, and one +2 tome for the fighter, and includes a chattering ring, which is not the easiest raid item to get your hands on. I included the ring since it's a wash between the builds in terms of difficulty to aquire and effect on AC. On the fighter side, it includes mithral tower + full plate, which is about the same/slightly cheaper than getting 25 white scales. The insight bonus weapon is also a wash between them, costing the same either way and being the most expensive individual item required.

So the AC is roughly the same, but the fighter has much higher intimidate and DR.

Second problem: Why is DR important? In situations where you do get hit, your lower HP ranger/monk has no secondary mitigation, while the higher HP fighter has an additional buffer of more HPs and high DR from a tower shield. This can come into play when under attack by large swarms of attackers. You'd be surprised how many 20s get rolled against you when 10 things are trying to melee you, and if you intimidate this will happen.

Of course, a somewhat smaller problem between the two is the fact that the fighter will have a much higher potential intimidate. Halfling is the best racial choice for the ranger from an AC perspective, however the additional -4 penalty might be a deal breaker on top of the fact that you are only training half points into the skill, and do not get class enhancements to intimidate.

[maddmatt70]

Well, two problems with that. First, the AC is about the same if you don't include the raiments and 8 ac bracers. I'll show the AC breakdown assuming all relevant +2 tomes are consumed, but using a white scale robe or enlightened vestments + chaosgarde for an additional 1 AC over 7 armor bracers, since this is the highest AC option.


10 base
13 full plate
9 tower
7 dex bonus (dwarf, assuming at least 11 fighter levels or 6 dex bonus non dwarf)
6 dodge (feat + chaosgarde + ring)
5 protection
5 CE
4 insight
3 barkskin potion
2 self paladin aura
1 alchemical armor
1 alchemical shield

66 self buffed (65 non dwarf)

12Ranger/3pally/1monk

10 base
12 dex
6 armor
6 wis
6 dodge (same as above)
5 protection
5 CE
5 barkskin (assuming at least 12 ranger levels)
4 insight
2 tempest
2 paladin aura
1 alchemical armor

64 (66 against favored enemy if you have 13 ranger levels and take those enhancements)

You could add one more AC for halfling, but then you take a large penalty to intimidation checks, and this build doesn't get intimidate as a primary skill.

Keep in mind that this consumes two +2 tomes for the ranger hybrid, and one +2 tome for the fighter, and includes a chattering ring, which is not the easiest raid item to get your hands on. I included the ring since it's a wash between the builds in terms of difficulty to aquire and effect on AC. On the fighter side, it includes mithral tower + full plate, which is about the same/slightly cheaper than getting 25 white scales. The insight bonus weapon is also a wash between them, costing the same either way and being the most expensive individual item required.

So the AC is roughly the same, but the fighter has much higher intimidate and DR.

Second problem: Why is DR important? In situations where you do get hit, your lower HP ranger/monk has no secondary mitigation, while the higher HP fighter has an additional buffer of more HPs and high DR from a tower shield. This can come into play when under attack by large swarms of attackers. You'd be surprised how many 20s get rolled against you when 10 things are trying to melee you, and if you intimidate this will happen.

Of course, a somewhat smaller problem between the two is the fact that the fighter will have a much higher potential intimidate. Halfling is the best racial choice for the ranger from an AC perspective, however the additional -4 penalty might be a deal breaker on top of the fact that you are only training half points into the skill, and do not get class enhancements to intimidate.

You just proved my point. Dr is a situationally technique for all the game except for barbs and to a lesser extent wf really and the dps of the ranger build that you posted is at least 40% higher then the sword and board. You can also slighty decrease dps or some other feature and have the same intimidate as the build you posted not that intimidate is that necessary in game. So why are you even arguing..

Honestly would you make a new sword and board character right now because I sure as heck wouldn't..

[Hadrian]

1) Note the discussion on cost, where the ranger hybrid resulta in slightly less AC, less hit points and no DR in return for higher DPS, but at a higher cost to build. Part of the discussion was that the ranger hybrid is more expensive.

2) You just dismissed the DR and intimidate differences. I think they're important to an intimitank. If that is what you want to make, that is what you find important.

You want him to make a DPS melee with high AC, but that is not the same thing. You're not placing value on what makes someone an intimitank, and yes, if I wanted to make an intimitank I would make a sword-and-board.

Honestly would you make a new sword and board character right now because I sure as heck wouldn't..

I get the decided impression that there are alot of biased people posting on these threads who stray from in game observation.

I understand that you have a strong opinion, but you were the one trying to caution against bias a little while ago.

[sirgog]

Due to the amount of AOE damage spells at current endgame, I highly recommend that any Intimitank build seriously consider taking 2 levels of Rogue, and carrying a +5 Mithral Breastplate as standard armor, and switching to +5 MFP when there's no need for the Evasion.

At current endgame at least, Evasion with solid saves is generally more important than the three points of AC you lose by changing over to the MBP.

[maddmatt70]

1) Note the discussion on cost, where the ranger hybrid resulta in slightly less AC, less hit points and no DR in return for higher DPS, but at a higher cost to build. Part of the discussion was that the ranger hybrid is more expensive.

2) You just dismissed the DR and intimidate differences. I think they're important to an intimitank. If that is what you want to make, that is what you find important.

You want him to make a DPS melee with high AC, but that is not the same thing. You're not placing value on what makes someone an intimitank, and yes, if I wanted to make an intimitank I would make a sword-and-board.





I understand that you have a strong opinion, but you were the one trying to caution against bias a little while ago.

Nowhere does the Op say he/she wants to make an intimitank..

[krud]

Nowhere does the Op say he/she wants to make an intimitank..

OP: "I just want good ac, saves, good damage(doesn't have to be great since the rest of my team will be helping in that area.)"

He doesn't specifically say intimitank, but an intimitank does fit well into that request, as does a high AC twf rgr + pally/monk splash.

The one thing about a good intimitank is that it makes healing a little less hectic. Wipes happen when the cleric can't keep up with the amount of damage multiple party members are taking. Even if you are putting out good DPS if a few people take a good hit in rapid succession it's not as easy for the cleric to keep up. I've run as both a caster, and a cleric in a dedicated group of 4 people, and I would say that an intimitank would really help when employing firewall and/or greater command, in addition to making healing less of a chore. it definitely allows a cleric more freedom to do something other than babysit party members.

[maddmatt70]

OP: "I just want good ac, saves, good damage(doesn't have to be great since the rest of my team will be helping in that area.)"

He doesn't specifically say intimitank, but an intimitank does fit well into that request, as does a high AC twf rgr + pally/monk splash.

The one thing about a good intimitank is that it makes healing a little less hectic. Wipes happen when the cleric can't keep up with the amount of damage multiple party members are taking. Even if you are putting out good DPS if a few people take a good hit in rapid succession it's not as easy for the cleric to keep up. I've run as both a caster, and a cleric in a dedicated group of 4 people, and I would say that an intimitank would really help when employing firewall and/or greater command, in addition to making healing less of a chore. it definitely allows a cleric more freedom to do something other than babysit party members.

I disagree with this entire statement. We are talking about a 4 person group. That is only 4 people to heal and to concentrate on as a healer from a concentration issue that is even easier. I hear so much bs about intimitank making things go easier well how about killing things quickly and thereby the mobs not being alive to dish out much damage on the party - that is something your defensive intimitanks are not too good at doing. Why not two monk splash characters in this party that are played aggressively and take mobs down quickly. I could not see a better 4 person group then a cleric, arcane, and two monk splash characters one of which has rogue skills.. You got ac when ac matters and the dps whenever it is required.

[krud]

I disagree with this entire statement. We are talking about a 4 person group. That is only 4 people to heal and to concentrate on as a healer from a concentration issue that is even easier. I hear so much bs about intimitank making things go easier well how about killing things quickly and thereby the mobs not being alive to dish out much damage on the party - that is something your defensive intimitanks are not too good at doing. Why not two monk splash characters in this party that are played aggressively and take mobs down quickly. I could not see a better 4 person group then a cleric, arcane, and two monk splash characters one of which has rogue skills.. You got ac when ac matters and the dps whenever it is required.

From the quote in yellow I can only assume that you never made an inimitank, much less ran in a small group with one. Have you ever played a cleric in a small group with an intimitank? Two of my clerics spent much of their time in a small 4 man group, with their remaining time being spent almost exclusively in PUGs. Sometimes we would fill out our small 4man group with pug tanks. Whenever our small group would get an intimitank, I definitely noticed a difference on my cleric, versus the non-intimitank pugs.

Less people in group may be easier to focus on, but when three or more other people are all grabbing their own aggro multiple health bars frequently go down rapidly, no matter how much dps they may be doing. We all know that aggressive, high dps, melee types ALWAYS attack the same mob, or stay in the same place where another high dps melee guy is working. The reality is they are only satisfied by showing how well they can take out their own mobs, and rarely stick close enough to make mass heals and crowd control work all the time. With an intimitank everyone is forced to stick together to fight. This not only makes mass heals easier, but with the mobs gathered around it makes crowd control much more effective. One greater command followed by a wall of fire, will do just as much, if not more, dps than some melee types can dish out. Nobody uses cloudkill anymore, but with an intimitank around, CK plus intimidate is a good combo against newer content.

Who says an intimitank can't dish out dps? you make it seem as if dps is either all or nothing. It is possible to dish out enough dps to matter. The intimitank may be dishing out 40% less dps than a high dps twf, but the group as a whole may be dishing out more total dps. All damage over time spells will be hitting more mobs, as in the examples described above. A rogue will also be adding more sneak attack dps. It's not always about one individual's dps.

I'm not saying two agressive melee types can't work well with a cleric and arcane, or be just as smooth without an intimitank, but a good intimitank can make it easier on the entire group. Yes, smaller groups are always easier on a cleric to keep track of, but with an inimitank around it's even easier, allowing more time for offensive casting, or even melee, which means more fun for the cleric too.

[Hadrian]

Again, I would say that the ranger/monk is not a good build for someone who has been playing for 2 months unless he has people to give him gear/help him farm the rare stuff. It will be a lot more expensive for various obvious reasons. (You'll need two weapons of each type to dual wield, your AC is based on two stats and requires +2 tomes for each, the "rare" items needed by the intimitank aren't nearly as rare, etc.)

If you can't hit the extreme range of AC in the end game, you'll need DR to compensate. An intimitank does that well.