WuJen: Halfling Fighter/Wizard/Monk

[magnusrufus]

i never mind criticism, except when they fail to explain what it is they find wrong with something. a 3yo can say *that sucks*... maybe try explaining what it is that is redundant and what is "wet noodle* about it. i realize my str isnt stellar, but id appreciate you actually giving something that could be done to fix w/e it is that you feel is wrong with the build

for both of the builds i see here, the enhancements shows a lot of redundancy. the 2nd build hit like a wet noodle

[geoffhanna]

No idea. Aranticus needs to put a couple more ranks in tact.

But... examining the enhancements on my original, they are outdated. The whole build could use an update pass for Mod9. Not surprising really, it is more than a year old and I don't play it actively.

If I did it from scratch today it would probably be a Kensai/Favored Soul/Monk?

[Aranticus]

i never mind criticism, except when they fail to explain what it is they find wrong with something. a 3yo can say *that sucks*... maybe try explaining what it is that is redundant and what is "wet noodle* about it. i realize my str isnt stellar, but id appreciate you actually giving something that could be done to fix w/e it is that you feel is wrong with the build

if you join date is any indication of how experienced you are, then you would have instantly understood what i mean

No idea. Aranticus needs to put a couple more ranks in tact.

But... examining the enhancements on my original, they are outdated. The whole build could use an update pass for Mod9. Not surprising really, it is more than a year old and I don't play it actively.

If I did it from scratch today it would probably be a Kensai/Favored Soul/Monk?

brutal honesty and tack are just divided by a fine line

ok lets start

Wu-Jen Halfling Ftr-Wiz-Mnk
Level 16 Lawful Neutral Halfling Male
7 Fighter \ 2 Monk \ 7 Wizard (20th level -> 7 \ 2 \ 11)

you want self buffing, anything more than 8 wiz is redundant

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 16)
Strength             13                    14 being halfling, going 13 str means 2 build points spent, since the only real reason to go 13 str is PA, cap it at 12 to free up 2 build points and possibly use it to imcrease wis
Dexterity            18                    24
Constitution         14                    14
Intelligence         14                    16 if we are looking at only casting L4 spells, a 12 int or even 10 is sufficient, you dun need your int for sp or dc since you are focusing on self buffing, you just want it to meet casting limits
Wisdom               10                    10 having 10 wis doesnt really do much, you get only max +5 to ac. increasing this could actually improve your build by a lot
Charisma              8                     8

Wish I had more STR. And CON. And WIS.

The character will be played under no-twink rules. He could have these scores for awhile .

this is the reason i dun build 28 pt toons for my newbie thread because the more things you are attempting, the more stats you need

Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Finesse
Feat: (Selected) Dodge
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Extend Spell
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Mobility
Feat: (Selected) Combat Expertise
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Spring Attack
Feat: (Selected) Whirlwind Attack
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Quicken Spell
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting

i dun see weapon focuses or specialisation which is going to increase your effectiveness as a melee. going mobility, spring attack and whirlwind is a huge investment of feats for something that isnt really utilised. with PA, theoretically you could hit more mobs by going cleave and great cleave every 5 seconds.

This character needed spring attack since BAB is already low and expects to be moving a lot. That made it simple to go the extra couple feats and snag Whirlwind Attack. Extra bonus, none of my characters have ever had WA (yay, fun!).

you dun have to be moving alot because you will not be the main tank. your role will be more of a support melee due to a few reasons, 1. ac not high enough, 2. hp not high enough, 3. dps not high enough, 4. no agro abilities

Not decided on ICierce vs IC:slash. Depends probably on what weapons I have by level 12.

your best bet is to go pierce because you want to maximise your dps on an already dps low build by using rapiers

Spell (1): Chill Touch
Spell (1): Expeditious Retreat
Spell (1): Jump
Spell (1): Mage Armor
Spell (1): Shield
Spell (1): Ray of Enfeeblement
Spell (1): Magic Missle
Spell (2): Blur
Spell (2): Glitterdust
Spell (2): Invisibility
Spell (2): Resist Energy
Spell (3): Heroism
Spell (3): Magic Circle Against Evil
Spell (3): Displacement
Spell (3): Haste
Spell (4): Fire Shield
Spell (4): Solid Fog

Spell choice is very important for this build. He simply can't cast anything with a saving throw, and really not much that allows SR either. Self-buffs are good. Everything else requires thought.

Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost III at only 20s, ac boost is really very unlikely to be very useful
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost III
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy III you dun need critical accuracy III unless you want to go kensai III which you cant qualify
Enhancement: Halfling Dexterity II
Enhancement: Halfling Guile III halfling guile without cunning? you might want to confirm this
Enhancement: Halfling Luck I (Fortitude)
Enhancement: Halfling Luck III (Reflex)
Enhancement: Halfling Luck I (Will)
Enhancement: Wizard Improved Quickening II will you be using quickening alot? i dun think so. removing this will not harm you build much
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortiose I
Enhancement: Disciple of Breezes
Enhancement: Disciple of Pebbles
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar II
Enhancement: Wizard Intelligence II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness III

get at least kensai I to give it an added punch in terms of dps

Hit points. Ability mods. Some Reflex saves. A dab of extra mana. I will have to get used to using the boosts, I don't use melee boosts on my other chars... will take some adjustment.

This build created using 
Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 2.96 
DDO Character Planner Home Page
Thanks Ron!

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.10
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Lawful Good Halfling Female
(8 Fighter \ 3 Monk \ 9 Wizard) 
Hit Points: 277
Spell Points: 496 
BAB: 14\14\19\24
Fortitude: 16
Reflex: 14
Will: 13

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             14                    18
Dexterity            17                    20
Constitution         14                    16
Intelligence         14                    14
Wisdom               10                    12
Charisma              8                     8

the reason i say you will hit like a wet noodle is because you cant hit anything at all. your contribution will be against trash mobs but with bosses, they amount to nothing due to the higher ac. you went finesse, but did not bother to put level up points into dex which will increase your already low attack bonus. instead you put it into str and into con. putting points into 2 stats is not a good idea

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               7                     9
Bluff                -1                     0
Concentration         6                    27
Diplomacy            -1                    -1
Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
Haggle               -1                    -1
Heal                  0                     1
Hide                  3                     7
Intimidate           -1                    -1
Jump                  6                    29
Listen                0                     3
Move Silently         3                     7
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform              n/a                   n/a
Repair                2                     2
Search                2                     2
Spot                  4                     9
Swim                  6                     8
Tumble                7                    20
Use Magic Device     n/a                   n/a

Level 1 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Concentration (+4)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Skill: Spot (+4)
Skill: Swim (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+4)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Dodge
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 2 (Fighter)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Finesse


Level 3 (Fighter)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Mobility
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 4 (Monk)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+3)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack


Level 5 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+0.5)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Extend Spell
Spell (1): Expeditious Retreat
Spell (1): Jump
Spell (1): Mage Armor
Spell (1): Nightshield
Spell (1): Ray of Enfeeblement
Spell (1): Shield


Level 6 (Monk)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Spot (+3)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Feat: (Monk Path) Philosophy - Path of Harmonious Balance
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 7 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+0.5)
Spell (1): Obscuring Mist
Spell (1): Detect Secret Doors


Level 8 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+0.5)
Spell (2): Blur
Spell (2): False Life


Level 9 (Fighter)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Spring Attack


Level 10 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+0.5)
Spell (2): Glitterdust
Spell (2): Invisibility


Level 11 (Fighter)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+0.5)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons


Level 12 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: CON
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Quicken Spell


Level 13 (Fighter)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+0.5)


Level 14 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+0.5)
Spell (3): Displacement
Spell (3): Haste


Level 15 (Fighter)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+0.5)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 16 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: CON
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+0.5)
Spell (4): Stoneskin
Spell (4): Enervation


Level 17 (Fighter)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+0.5)


Level 18 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Combat Expertise
Spell (4): Solid Fog
Spell (4): Dimension Door


Level 19 (Fighter)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+0.5)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Whirlwind Attack


Level 20 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: CON
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Spell (5): Protection From Elements
Spell (5): Teleport
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost II
Enhancement: Kensei Kama Mastery I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy II
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei I
Enhancement: Fighter Kama Specialization I
Enhancement: Halfling Dexterity I
Enhancement: Halfling Dexterity II
Enhancement: Wizard Improved Quickening I
Enhancement: Wizard Improved Quickening II
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortiose I
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Fists of Light
Enhancement: Disciple of Breezes
Enhancement: Disciple of Pebbles
Enhancement: Disciple of Candles
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar I
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar II
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar III
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness III

youll notice i only used about ~50 ap's, you have a lot of freedom here because you dont have 1 high class so most of your enhancements are cheap. these are the ones i consider the best of the choices, after these anything you pick is just gravy

you have a better understanding of enhancments for offense but you might want to ditch kamas. if you want to use a slasher, use a kukri, the crits from it will give you more dps than a kama would if you use wind stance. now if you are looking at vorpaling, yes switch to a kama for more attacks. this is the 2nd reason why i say it will hit like a wet noodle. kama = no dps

edit: some comments for build 1 is applicable to build 2

[geoffhanna]

brutal honesty and tack are just divided by a fine line

Actually, no, they are not. I'm sorry you think that.

I'm not going to defend the build line-by-line. I've already stated it needs a rework for mod9. But reading your comments, the WIS suggestion seems right on. I disagree with the idea that only main tanks need to move while fighting; in fact, I find that main tanks move less as they can stand in place and hold agro. Offtanks and DPS need to use a much more active attack style.

[Aranticus]

Actually, no, they are not. I'm sorry you think that.

I'm not going to defend the build line-by-line. I've already stated it needs a rework for mod9. But reading your comments, the WIS suggestion seems right on. I disagree with the idea that only main tanks need to move while fighting; in fact, I find that main tanks move less as they can stand in place and hold agro. Offtanks and DPS need to use a much more active attack style.

you missed what i just said. i did not say main tanks need to move. i said off tanks need not move. they are not the same. the reason you move a lot is because you want to avoid the mobs attacks so you side-step or back away when you are getting hit. this is something a poor off tank would do. a good off tank will wait for the main tank to establish the agro (which doesnt need much time due to the reasons i mentioned in the post), move to the back of the mob and start hitting away

you wont be getting agro and the mob will never turn on you and you wont ever need to move and thus will not get the -4 penalty. what if there is no "main tank" in the group? follow the one that deals more damage than you

[geoffhanna]

I 'm not sure where to go with this Aranticus. You are saying that some play styles do not need spring attack. You are right. You said earlier that spring attack is expensive, feat-wise. You are right again.

Now, would this build be better off with spring attack? If I was playing it, yes. Apparently if you are playing it, no. Okay I can live with that.

Let me make a bold prediction: you don't like whirlwind attack?

[Aranticus]

I 'm not sure where to go with this Aranticus. You are saying that some play styles do not need spring attack. You are right. You said earlier that spring attack is expensive, feat-wise. You are right again.

Now, would this build be better off with spring attack? If I was playing it, yes. Apparently if you are playing it, no. Okay I can live with that.

Let me make a bold prediction: you don't like whirlwind attack?

Whirlwind is a nice feat to have but it does come cheap. Dodge is good in fact most my melée have it for the +1 ac as they are within the d20 range. Mobility serves little purpose. Spring attack is nice. The -4 penalty can really add up if you have PA on. Whirlwind rocks but it also grabs a lot of agro. The wujen does not have a stellar ac or hp, so it means the use will be limited to soft hitting mobs which further reduces it's effectiveness

[geoffhanna]

I'm even more confused now than I was before.

Which is saying something.

[Aranticus]

I'm even more confused now than I was before.

Which is saying something.

i'll try to break it down for you

dodge: +1 ac, if you can get to a high ac ie 70+ range, the +1 ac is very important

ie suulomades needs a 20 to hit 72 ac. if you can only get to a raid buffed ac of 50, dodge is pointless. if you are already at 85 ac, dodge is pointless. if you are at say 69 ac, dodge is very important, you get hit 33% less (3 hits vs 2 hits)

mobility: +4 ac when tumbline. absolutely useless unless you intimidate and then keep tumbling around which will fustrate the whole group

spring attack: eliminates the -4 moving attack penalty. most important fights are typically stationary, ie suulomade, arraetrikos, horoth, etc. if the mob is not moving, you are not moving, you dun need spring attack. against trash mobs, their ac is typically low enough for the penalty to not factor in

whirlwind: you attack a 360 arc. it means that you are likely to grab the agro of a few mobs. they will attack you and with more attacks, it means more hits and more grazing. if you ac is low, it is difficult to survive the barrage of attacks so you need a high hp to absorb the hits, which again if low means certain death. since the ac and hp of the wujen isnt as high, it means you will not be using it alot

the investment of 4 feats to get abilities which is not frequently used is very heavy

i hope this makes it clearer

[geoffhanna]

No I know all that. My confusion is because it seemed like a few posts up you were arguing against spring attack but then later you seemed in favor of it.

Cognitive dissonance and all that.

[Samiusbot]

... take 3 levels of monk so you can get to the monk healing finishing move and the

every ooze is a bag of healing and ki, with a monk weapons you can more or less keep yourself healed up. 3 levels of monk maybe the new 2 with the new reporting system telling you how much Hp you are getting back it adds up very quickly.