Rogue Cleric Rev 2.0! Back for the...... Ack! A Rogue Cleric????

[Impaqt]

Eleven Rogue Cleric Rev 2.0

I play my original version of my Cleric rogue often still. Its been an extremely handy build and has performed admirably in every situation I throw at her. I'm not rerolling her anytime soon, but I have had several inquiries lately regarding "Is that still what you would do?"

Pretty Minor adjustments in the new version... Sacrificed a little Strength for Wisdom and incorporated +2 Tomes at creation since they are far more common today than when I orginally designed the build. ALso Boosted up the Cleric Enhancments a bit for better healing capabilities.

Enjoy!


Level 16 Elf Male
(2 Rogue / 14 Cleric)
Hit Points: 258
20 Heroic Durability
112 L14 Cleric
12 L2 Rogue
64 18CON
10 Dragonic Vitality
----
220
30 Greater False Life
18 Minos Legend
----
268 Hit Points

Spell Points: 1490
80 Magical Training
600 L14 Cleric
85 Mental TOughness
85 Improved Mental TOughness
230 L12 Cleric Bonus WIS (28 WIS)
110 Energy of the Zealot
---
1190 Spell Point
300 Shround TIer 3 Item (Skill Boosts per your Prefference in INT and/Or CHR skills)
----
1490


BAB: 11/11/16/21
Around +25 FIrst Swing w/ DP/DF if ya wanna melee.

Fortitude:
Reflex:
Will:
9/4/9 L14 Cleric Base
0/3/0 L2 Rogue
4/7/10 Attribute Modifiers
4/4/4 Resistance Item
------
17/18/23 Standing Saves
4/4/4 Greater Heroism
2/2/2 Recitation
------
23/24/29 Self Buffed

Abilities
(32 Point)
{18}Strength_________12 +6DP/Item
{24}Dexterity_________14 +2Tome +1Elf +1 Rogue +6Item
{18}Constitution_______12 +6Item
{24}Intelligence_______16+2Tome +6Item
{30}Wisdom___________15 +4Levels +3Clr +2 TOme +6ITem =30
{14}Charisma__________8 +6Item as needed

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 1
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 16
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 16


Skills

{51/62}Disable Device
19Ranks +15Item +7INT +7Tools +2Feat +1Enh =51 +2Boost +4GH +3VB +2Luck =61

{46/54}Open Lock
14Ranks +15Item+7Dex +7Tools +2Feat +1Enh = 46 +2Boost +4GH +2Luck = 54+d20

{44/52}Search
11Ranks +15Item +7INT +7FindTraps +2Enh +2Elf = 44 +4GH +2Luck +2Boost = 52

{40/46}Spot
11Ranks +15Item +10WIS +2ENH +2Elf = 40 +4GH +2Luck =46

Use Magic Device
19Ranks +2CHR +3Cartouse =24

Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Disable Device (+4)
Skill: Haggle (+4)
Skill: Hide (+4)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Skill: Move Silently (+4)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Spot (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+4)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Nimble Fingers

Level 2 (Cleric)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)

Level 3 (Cleric)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell

Level 4 (Cleric)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)

Level 5 (Cleric)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)

Level 6 (Cleric)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Mental Toughness

Level 7 (Cleric)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)

Level 8 (Cleric)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)

Level 9 (Rogue)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+7)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell

Level 10 (Cleric)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)

Level 11 (Cleric)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)

Level 12 (Cleric)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell

Level 13 (Cleric)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)

Level 14 (Cleric)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)

Level 15 (Cleric)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Mental Toughness

Level 16 (Cleric)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost I
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I
Enhancement: Elven Perception I
Enhancement: Elven Keen Eyes I
Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty
Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
Enhancement: Rogue Disable Device I
Enhancement: Rogue Open Lock I
Enhancement: Rogue Search I
Enhancement: Rogue Spot I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic II
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic III
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic IV
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot I
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot II
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot III
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot IV
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom I
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom II
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom III
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense I
Enhancement: Cleric Wand Mastery I
Enhancement: Cleric Wand Mastery II
Enhancement: Cleric Wand Mastery III
Enhancement: Cleric Wand Mastery IV

[moorewr]

Nicely refined. Still an awesome fun build.

My lad is 8cleric/2rogue at the moment, and I did breakdown and switch in Extend. My current feats are Nimble Fingers, Mental Toughness, Improved Mental Toughness, and Extend. I figure on Maximize at 12 and Quicken at 15, or maybe the other way around.

I'm rather behind as a cleric at the moment, but the next level should make me much more effective -> Slay Living, Greater Command, and better healing..

When I'm reduced to fighting - Greater Heroism from the Planar Gird, the divines, and Recitation and my numbers are quite respectable.

[nbhs275]

Now impact, its a great build and im gunna do you a huge favor.

Someones gunna say " Gah why not monk ..duh dur!"

Well, this build is gunna not get that stupid high AC thats making all the little newblers wet themselves, but it has the advantage of still having evasion, being able to handle all traps,(which means you never need to bring a rogue just for the traps), Umd for the looty goodness, and im sure quite a few arcane toys.

Though i am going to pose 2 questions.

Have you considered the wizard dip? you would lose some SP most likely, but with a good int like yours it may be worth it for the extra meta feat.

Or, what is your reasoning between human and elf?

They way i see it, you may lose the 2 dex, but you dont need to put as much into intel, save points in con, and also open up a potentially useful feat.

[rimble]

Been planning one like this for awhile built upon your original post. Still waiting for a +2 Int tome to get him started though. Don't REALLY need it, but you can't go back and fix skills right now, so I'm too scared about trimming Spot, OL, and/or Search too low.

I'm planning on Human though, makes the skills a tiny bit better and figured having DimDoor Dragonmarks would be useful. Gonna put Str to 10 and Wis to 16. I'll probably miss the Str some at lower levels, but later on in life I'd rather have +1 DC than +2 Hit/Damage since I think the magic will be more important.

[Impaqt]

Now impact, its a great build and im gunna do you a huge favor.

Someones gunna say " Gah why not monk ..duh dur!"

Well, this build is gunna not get that stupid high AC thats making all the little newblers wet themselves, but it has the advantage of still having evasion, being able to handle all traps,(which means you never need to bring a rogue just for the traps), Umd for the looty goodness, and im sure quite a few arcane toys.
Ya mean Like 13/2/1 Monk splash? Ya lose More SPell Points, You already have evasion, and you dont need the AC.

Though i am going to pose 2 questions.

Have you considered the wizard dip? you would lose some SP most likely, but with a good int like yours it may be worth it for the extra meta feat.
What Meta do you this this build needs extra? I dont feel the Wiz Splash is worth is.. Spell Pen is already hurting on this build 14/2. WOuldnt want to give up any more.

Or, what is your reasoning between human and elf?
+2 Search/Spot Inherant, Search Spot Enhancments, and I really dont think theres enough Action Points to incorporated the whole human Versatility Line.

They way i see it, you may lose the 2 dex, but you dont need to put as much into intel, save points in con, and also open up a potentially useful feat.

Human can definatly work for a Rogue Cleric. I just prefered the Elf I developed over the Human..... I'll Redesign/Dig up my Human Template one of these days and post it....

[Samadhi]

Honestly, I have an evasion/trapmonkey cleric like this; but there are a couple ways I went really different. Main idea was:

16 starting Wis + all level up points equals good enough to still cast offensively

17 starting Int +1 tome = maxed rogue skills + insightful reflexes = excellent evasion

Dwarf + all other stat points into con + 1 toughness and enhancements = around 370 HP at cap

SP equal to your build; can do all traps; awesome saves across the board; and in my case took quicken, empower, and maximize for absurd BB ability too.

I don't know, yours has some more versatility, but I really like the survivability of the model I settled on.

[nbhs275]

Human can definatly work for a Rogue Cleric. I just prefered the Elf I developed over the Human..... I'll Redesign/Dig up my Human Template one of these days and post it....

kk, was curious about your reasoning between elf/human.

Also, i wasnt suggestion monk, was just putting that in because i was sure someone was going to ask why rogue and not monk

as far as meta-magics, was looking at empower and empower healing.

[Impaqt]

Now impact, its a great build and im gunna do you a huge favor.

Someones gunna say " Gah why not monk ..duh dur!"

Well, this build is gunna not get that stupid high AC thats making all the little newblers wet themselves, but it has the advantage of still having evasion, being able to handle all traps,(which means you never need to bring a rogue just for the traps), Umd for the looty goodness, and im sure quite a few arcane toys.

Though i am going to pose 2 questions.

Have you considered the wizard dip? you would lose some SP most likely, but with a good int like yours it may be worth it for the extra meta feat.

Or, what is your reasoning between human and elf?

They way i see it, you may lose the 2 dex, but you dont need to put as much into intel, save points in con, and also open up a potentially useful feat.

Honestly, I have an evasion/trapmonkey cleric like this; but there are a couple ways I went really different. Main idea was:

16 starting Wis + all level up points equals good enough to still cast offensively

17 starting Int +1 tome = maxed rogue skills + insightful reflexes = excellent evasion

Dwarf + all other stat points into con + 1 toughness and enhancements = around 370 HP at cap

SP equal to your build; can do all traps; awesome saves across the board; and in my case took quicken, empower, and maximize for absurd BB ability too.

I don't know, yours has some more versatility, but I really like the survivability of the model I settled on.

Dwarf = Easy Button for most folks. Its rediculously easy to make a surviveable Dwarf no matter what class combo you choose. But seriously, what is the benefit of having 370 Hit points when you arent meleeing? THe biggest damage you face is Spells.. and most of those have evasion checks or canbe dodged manually... So where does 370 Hit points make a build like this better thanthe 268 I have? My version mixes it up inmelee with a VOrpal all the time..... I rarely ave any issues staying alive.

AS for the Max/Empowered/Quicked Blade barriers... I have a Cleric fully decked out with all three..... my other 3 just have Max/Quicken/Extend..... I rarely notice the difference in their blade barriers... One less pass on some toughmobs maybe.. certainly not game breaking.

[Jaysensen]

Stacie is a very similar build. The only weakeness I find is Concentration for Scrolls. Quicken fixes the problem for spells. My only regret on my most fun character to play.

[Impaqt]

Stacie is a very similar build. The only weakeness I find is Concentration for Scrolls. Quicken fixes the problem for spells. My only regret on my most fun character to play.

yeah, the lack of COncentration is a Problem... Fact uis though, even on my Maxed Concentrationc leric, I still fail scrolls occatianlly....

If i need to use a lot of scrolls.. I try to stay out of combat/harms way as much as possible.

[moorewr]

Human can definatly work for a Rogue Cleric. I just prefered the Elf I developed over the Human..... I'll Redesign/Dig up my Human Template one of these days and post it....

Human Versatility, extra feat, and skill points v. a point of dex and racial bonuses with longswords..

yeah, the lack of COncentration is a Problem... Fact uis though, even on my Maxed Concentrationc leric, I still fail scrolls occatianlly....

If i need to use a lot of scrolls.. I try to stay out of combat/harms way as much as possible.

Thus my dilemma. Quicken is in my build, but very late.. (lvl 15)...

[Impaqt]

Human Versatility, extra feat, and skill points v. a point of dex and racial bonuses with longswords..[/COLOR=Yelow] And +2 Racial Search and Spot + Enhancments, on a Build thats already VERY thin on extra Action points. [/COLOR]


Thus my dilemma. Quicken is in my build, but very late.. (lvl 15)...

10 More Action Points into Human Versatility is a LOT to come up with. and Ultimately, why I decided to not go with human.

[rimble]

10 More Action Points into Human Versatility is a LOT to come up with. and Ultimately, why I decided to not go with human.

I realize you're not playing this exact build, but I thought in your original build you liked the Elf for the Longsword Enhancements...and I don't see them in your Enhancements up above, so what happened to that? Was it just a nice aide to get you going when melee was still viable? Elven Dex I is easily replicated by a Human Enh, and so now it just looks like you got Elven Perception and Keen Eyes. It doesn't look like much from Elf is actually being used, which seems to imply to me that the extra skill points and Feat from Human at least would be better, even if you can only get one or two levels of HV. Not sure if that encompasses all your Enhancements up there, I'm not near a character planner.

[Samadhi]

Dwarf = Easy Button for most folks. Its rediculously easy to make a surviveable Dwarf no matter what class combo you choose. But seriously, what is the benefit of having 370 Hit points when you arent meleeing? THe biggest damage you face is Spells.. and most of those have evasion checks or canbe dodged manually... So where does 370 Hit points make a build like this better thanthe 268 I have? My version mixes it up inmelee with a VOrpal all the time..... I rarely ave any issues staying alive.

AS for the Max/Empowered/Quicked Blade barriers... I have a Cleric fully decked out with all three..... my other 3 just have Max/Quicken/Extend..... I rarely notice the difference in their blade barriers... One less pass on some toughmobs maybe.. certainly not game breaking.

If you have an alt on Ghallanda I'll show you. I'm not exactly a... slow... player - esp. on a cleric. So when trailing 15-20 mobs for a blade barrier, and one of them gets in that magic trip on you, it's nice to live long enough to get up.

Yes, I fully realize dwarf is considered the easy button. I mostly play halflings to be honest. But even my full cleric (human) definitely has over 300 HP and I wish he had more. I've considered swapping MT's for T's even.

Considering that, statistically speaking, you roll that magic 1 that screws you 5% of the time - I'm quite happy to go for robust particularly on clerics and bards.

[Impaqt]

I realize you're not playing this exact build, but I thought in your original build you liked the Elf for the Longsword Enhancements...and I don't see them in your Enhancements up above, so what happened to that? Was it just a nice aide to get you going when melee was still viable? Elven Dex I is easily replicated by a Human Enh, and so now it just looks like you got Elven Perception and Keen Eyes. It doesn't look like much from Elf is actually being used, which seems to imply to me that the extra skill points and Feat from Human at least would be better, even if you can only get one or two levels of HV. Not sure if that encompasses all your Enhancements up there, I'm not near a character planner.

Yes, the longsword enhancents are nice for lower levels where I melee a lot more.... I just dont need em end game.

+2 Elven Search and Spot make up for 8 Skill Points spent... and I have the option of elven search and spot enhancments. I have no trouble staying alive so the HP thing is moot. the extra dex at creation is very handy because we want to max that as much as the build allows for evasion.

Like I said before, i'm not against a human version.. I helped Ron design a Human version for his solo project even.... I choose Elf for my build because I like the Extra Dex, Inherant Bonus's, and Longsword Proficency. I also dislike having to rely on Clickies if at all possible.

[Impaqt]

If you have an alt on Ghallanda I'll show you. I'm not exactly a... slow... player - esp. on a cleric. So when trailing 15-20 mobs for a blade barrier, and one of them gets in that magic trip on you, it's nice to live long enough to get up.

Yes, I fully realize dwarf is considered the easy button. I mostly play halflings to be honest. But even my full cleric (human) definitely has over 300 HP and I wish he had more. I've considered swapping MT's for T's even.

Considering that, statistically speaking, you roll that magic 1 that screws you 5% of the time - I'm quite happy to go for robust particularly on clerics and bards.

This guy has 268... My Human has just under 300, and my Dwarf has 375. I solo on all of em. and when Trips are a possibility, I generally will switch to Fearsome armor. It works Great... Gives me plenty of time to get back up in most situations.

Ive kited many a mob out soloing the Vale..... not sure where you got the impression I thought you were Slow......

[rimble]

Like I said before, i'm not against a human version.. I helped Ron design a Human version for his solo project even.... I choose Elf for my build because I like the Extra Dex, Inherant Bonus's, and Longsword Proficency. I also dislike having to rely on Clickies if at all possible.

Yeah, that's cool, not trying to bust your chops, just that the Human can have the same starting stats (12/14/12/16/15/8), can have the same +1 Dex Enhancement (plus a +1 Wis Enhancement), and will have many more skill points over the inherent +2 Search/Spot. Longsword and Longbow proficiency is nice...

I'm gonna have to try more diligently to get a +2 Int tome so I can get mine rollin'.

[moorewr]

We were debating human v. elf over at House T too.. I made a little list to justify using any of the races I thought I'd share.

• elf for spot/search and longsword melee bonuses
• human for the feat (& dragonmarks?) and HV
• drow for higher charisma and dex
• dwarf for HP (& search with mark of warding)
• halfling for dex/ac (& healing marks?)
• WF.. for Great Justice!

[rimble]

We were debating human v. elf over at House T too.. I made a little list to justify using any of the races I thought I'd share.

• elf for spot/search and longsword melee bonuses
• human for the feat (& dragonmarks?) and HV
• drow for higher charisma and dex
• dwarf for HP (& search with mark of warding)
• halfling for dex/ac (& healing marks?)
• WF.. for Great Justice!

I think the Elf Spot/Search only matters if you're maxing those skills anyways. If the Human and Elf have 19/19 ranks in Spot/Search, then clearly the Elf will have superior numbers at 21/21 and maybe more if they took some Enhancements. Of course Elf/Drow matter more if you're taking Dex above 14, or using their melee Enhancements more, but we're not here.

But, if you're not maxing those two skills, then they can just be considered to be freeing up 8 skill points (in a build like this that pays cross-class for everything), but by going Human, you're getting 15 extra skill points (the 4 extra at first level don't matter, you already have so many then) and so can get that same +2 Spot/Search, and then some. You'll end up with a net 19 more skill points at 20. In a build with tight Enhancements, getting that +1 or +2 to Spot/Search via skill points instead of Enhancement points seems very efficient.

Anyways, I apologize, I think I'm just being unnecessarily repetitive. It's not a major difference, and I haven't worked things out through a character builder.

[Raelg14]

Out of curiosity, what is your ultimate level division with this character, when the level 20 cap comes?