Healer w/ Splash Pally - Comments Pease

[HumanJHawkins]

This is intended to be a pure healer with consideration to survivability (Saves / AC) and ability to properly buff (Extend Spell instead of Quicken Spell).

I went Human over Drow to avoid the Con penalty, and Human over Dwarf to avoid the Char penalty that would affect DVs and saves for this build. I happen to have the tomes listed, but may not actually eat the +2 Charisma... we'll see. What do you think?

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 2.96
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Huevos Rancheros
Level 16 Lawful Good Human Male
(2 Paladin \ 14 Cleric) 
Hit Points: 191
Spell Points: 1202 
BAB: 12\12\17\22
Fortitude: 19
Reflex: 10
Will: 23

                  Starting            Ending          
Abilities        Base Stats         Base Stats        
(32 Point)       (Level 1)          (Level 16)        
Strength              9                 10            
Dexterity             9                 10            
Constitution         11                 12            
Intelligence          9                 10            
Wisdom               18                 22            
Charisma             16                 18            

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 1
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 1
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 1
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 1
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 1

                  Starting            Ending          
                 Base Skills        Base Skills       
Skills           (Level 1)          (Level 16)        
Balance               0                  0            
Bluff                 4                  5            
Concentration         5                 20            
Diplomacy             8                 24            
Disable Device        n/a               n/a           
Haggle                4                  5            
Heal                  4                  8            
Hide                  0                  0            
Intimidate            4                  5            
Jump                  0                  7.5          
Listen                4                  8            
Move Silently         0                  0            
Open Lock             n/a               n/a           
Perform               n/a               n/a           
Repair                0                  0            
Search                0                  0            
Spot                  4                  8            
Swim                  0                  0            
Tumble                n/a               n/a           
Use Magic Device      n/a               n/a           

Level 1 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+4)
Skill: Diplomacy (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Combat Casting
Feat: (Human Bonus) Mental Toughness
Feat: (Automatic) Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Heavy Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Heroic Durability
Feat: (Automatic) Light Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Magical Training
Feat: (Automatic) Medium Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Shield Proficiency (General)
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency (ALL)
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak
Feat: (Automatic) Turn Undead
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic I
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot I
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Vitality I
Enhancement: Cleric Extra Turning I


Level 2 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)
Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom I
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Cleansing I


Level 3 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Extra Turning
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Healing I


Level 4 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: WIS
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)


Level 5 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)
Feat: (Automatic) Aura of Good
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency (ALL)
Feat: (Automatic) Smite Evil
Feat: (Automatic) Sunder
Feat: (Automatic) Trip
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Charisma I
Enhancement: Paladin Focus of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Devotion I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic II
Enhancement: Cleric Charisma I
Enhancement: Cleric Extra Turning II


Level 6 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Automatic) Divine Grace
Feat: (Automatic) Lay on Hands
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I


Level 7 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)


Level 8 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: WIS
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)
Enhancement: Cleric Spell Penetration I
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot II
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom II
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Vitality II


Level 9 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic III
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Healing II


Level 10 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)
Enhancement: Cleric Charisma II


Level 11 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot III
Enhancement: Cleric Extra Turning III


Level 12 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: WIS
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
Enhancement: Cleric Extra Turning IV


Level 13 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Healing III


Level 14 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Vitality III


Level 15 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Mental Toughness
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom III


Level 16 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: WIS
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Wisdom II

Thanks!

[Lymnus]

I'd personally drop Combat Casting, and seriously consider dropping Toughness.

Feat arrangement, in my opinion, would look better as:
1: Mental Toughness, Empower Healing Spell/Empower Spell (You'll gain more millage out of Empower Spell, only thing you lose is meta'ing Heal. Costs a few extra SP, since you can't use enhancements, but it's personally worth it to me. Your opinion may vary.)
3: Extra Turning or Extend Spell
6: Extra Turning or Extend Spell, whatever's not taken at 3.
9: Improved Mental Toughness
12: Maximize Spell, perhaps. Not sure. Would help BB, which adds to survivability.
15: Quicken Spell.

Even with combat casting, you can fail your con check. With quicken, it's impossible to fail your check. And, you cast spells at an increased speed, letting you get off Symbols and Blade Barriers in a reasonable time, adding to what your goal is (survivability).

I'm really not sure what to take at level 12. Maximize would be my personal choice, but Toughness could go there. I just find that, and Toughness from Minos Legen (if you decide to go that path) to be redudant.

Not important, but just an opinion. Drop STR, DEX, and INT by a point. Add to CON. Tome CON, and WIS (you didn't mention toming WIS).

[BlackSteel]

2 monk would give you more survivability with slightly less saves (+5 saves vs 6-8 with pally). You'd get two feats, evasion, and +2 wisdom as well. The biggest hurdle to overcome with monk splash is what weapons to use to maintain your stance. But the cleric monk is like a large divine cockroach.

also i'd second not choosing combat casting, quicken is far more valuable; you can hit a decent concentration score w/o the feat. The times you'll get interrupted, that +4 isnt going to matter much; if it gave closer to ten it might be worthwhile.

[Aranticus]

the more important question is how are you exactly going to play this toon? healbot or combat casting type?

your enhancments and the empower healing feat suggests healbot. however, i do not see any empower healing enhancements taken. the enhancements will greatly reduce the sp requirement for large heals but you do not have the enhancements for crits for the really obscene healing numbers i've seen ie 1k heals

i see a spell pen enhancement but no feat, any thing in vale, esp in shroud is going to give you difficulty in trying to banish or destruct them. if you conc on healbot, i also suggest losing the enhancements.

you took pally devotion, not sure how it is going to stack with the cleric life magic

last but not least, if u really want to healbot, u dun need str, dun need dex, dun need int. put all into con

[HumanJHawkins]

2 monk would give you more survivability with slightly less saves (+5 saves vs 6-8 with pally). You'd get two feats, evasion, and +2 wisdom as well. The biggest hurdle to overcome with monk splash is what weapons to use to maintain your stance. .

Mmmmm Evasion sounds nice... Do you lose the feat when you are not centered? Or, do you just lose the +2 Wisdom?

[HumanJHawkins]

Thanks for the comments. The thinking behind my choices is below (inline in red). Please let me know if you think I am just not getting it, etc.

the more important question is how are you exactly going to play this toon? healbot or combat casting type?

Pure healer

your enhancments and the empower healing feat suggests healbot. however, i do not see any empower healing enhancements taken. the enhancements will greatly reduce the sp requirement for large heals

I should have 1400 +/- SP at end game. That's only about 28 empowered full heals. So, each level of enhancement only saves me 28 sp per shrine, right? I think I can get more out of the points elsewhere, such as with the soverign host thing (equivalent to an auto-crit full heal per shrine). What would you give up to get the enhancements to empower heal?

but you do not have the enhancements for crits for the really obscene healing numbers i've seen ie 1k heals

Ya. My other Cleric often heals for 950+ HP. Unfortunately most players only have 450 or so, so it is wasted. I thought I would see how things go without it, and then just reset my enhancements to get it if it turns out that I miss it.

i see a spell pen enhancement but no feat, any thing in vale, esp in shroud is going to give you difficulty in trying to banish or destruct them. if you conc on healbot, i also suggest losing the enhancements.

I'm pretty sure this was at a point in the progression where I couldn't find anything useful to take due to the requirement of number of action points spent. Plus, only on AP for +1 to defeating SR is a pretty good deal.

you took pally devotion, not sure how it is going to stack with the cleric life magic

Ya. I might be hosed when I get to that point in the game. Not sure if the planner is accurate in how it interprets that.

last but not least, if u really want to healbot, u dun need str, dun need dex, dun need int. put all into con

The STR is purely a playability thing... I know it doesn't benefit my character, but as a player I hate getting encumbered and falling behind, or not being able to drag multiple sets of full plate back to town from a dungeon.

One point into Dex is so I can put a +6 item on with MFP and a Madstone Shield, and not have to worry too much about getting plinked with arrows or beaten on when the front line fails. I found on my other cleric that I have a free bracers slot, so I might get Chaosguards, etc, and get my AC up to the low 40s. That helps in 90% of the game.

Int is so I can max out Diplo and concentration, and still build up those half-points of jump. Mostly the jump is a playability thing like STR... Not necessary, but it makes the game more fun.

Between the three stats, it is only 3 points total, and it will let me eat those 3 tomes to get to an even number. So, it's a lot of bang for the buck.

I will think about all of the above and revise... Expect a revised build tomorrow.
Cheers!

[sirgog]

the more important question is how are you exactly going to play this toon? healbot or combat casting type?

your enhancments and the empower healing feat suggests healbot. however, i do not see any empower healing enhancements taken. the enhancements will greatly reduce the sp requirement for large heals but you do not have the enhancements for crits for the really obscene healing numbers i've seen ie 1k heals

i see a spell pen enhancement but no feat, any thing in vale, esp in shroud is going to give you difficulty in trying to banish or destruct them. if you conc on healbot, i also suggest losing the enhancements.

you took pally devotion, not sure how it is going to stack with the cleric life magic

last but not least, if u really want to healbot, u dun need str, dun need dex, dun need int. put all into con

Generally good advice for this build, although I'm hesitant to recommend totally dropping Str. Getting hit by Ray of Enfeeblement or Symbol of Weakness can leave you incapped (and thus unable to self-heal) if your Str is very low. Poison and disease can do the same thing, although a non-melee toon will encounter them less. I like to be 10 base on a non-Str character, and to also use a +6 item when in areas that Str damage/debuffs are common.

Another point - a Balance of 0 will cause you problems at times, as when you are getting up close and personal with the ground, noone (in many groups) can heal you. Fearsome armor helps here - but Fearsome armor doesn't have the greatest synergy with Bladebarrier, which is your second-best spell (second only to Heal). If you can get Balance higher, you won't regret it.


Personally, however, I advise considering going for a hybrid healbot/offensive-caster cleric or a hybrid melee/healbot cleric. Sometimes, one well-placed Cometfall or Symbol of Stunning can prevent more damage than three Heal spells can heal. You'll sacrifice some healing capacity (Mental Toughness will probably have to go for Spell Penetration feats), but I'd suggest that it's worth it. Your call, however. This thread http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=156683 has some build ideas for such a hybrid character.

[Aranticus]

Ya. My other Cleric often heals for 950+ HP. Unfortunately most players only have 450 or so, so it is wasted. I thought I would see how things go without it, and then just reset my enhancements to get it if it turns out that I miss it.

its not for heal spell but more for the mass cures. crits can help alot when in a tight spot. lose the pally enhancements for them. you dun really need +1 saves or the devotion

Int is so I can max out Diplo and concentration, and still build up those half-points of jump. Mostly the jump is a playability thing like STR... Not necessary, but it makes the game more fun.

Between the three stats, it is only 3 points total, and it will let me eat those 3 tomes to get to an even number. So, it's a lot of bang for the buck.

diplo is nice but not alway necessary. in many of the end content, i dun really see diplo being used. most of the time you are just too busy healing to hit the diplo button but like what you say, its a playstyle

[BlackSteel]

Mmmmm Evasion sounds nice... Do you lose the feat when you are not centered? Or, do you just lose the +2 Wisdom?

you'll keep evasion but lose the +2 wisdom when not centered due to weapons; you'll lose evasion when wearing armor, but gain ac via your wisdom modifier