A quick question on armor bonuses.

[Gennerik]

I have been wondering this for a while, but actually looked it up today.

Why do we have a grand total of 5 items that give a Natural Armor bonus to your AC when we have 3 items that add Dodge bonuses (Not including the ability to add dodge bonuses to shields and armor via crafting)? Why does it seem that Natural Armor is so much more valuable on an item than a Dodge bonus when a Dodge bonus actually stacks with another? Is it just me? The breakdown is:

Natural Armor

• Amulet of Natural Armor: +1 Natural Armor, Neck slot, only available to pre-orders.
• Ring of Balance: +2 Natural Armor, Ring slot, must chose it from Invaders! (and can only chose one item)
• Hammer of Life: +2 Natural Armor, 2-Handed Weapon, Dropped from the Dragon raid
• Seal of the Earth: +3 Natural Armor, Ring slot, Dropped from the Demon Queen raid
• Shroud of the Abbot: +4 Natural Armor, Robe, Dropped from the Abbot raid

So, for Natural Armor bonuses, we have 2 rings, an amulet, and a weapon, none of which are better than a Barkskin potion that you can pick up from your local vendor. We also have a robe from the Abbot, which even changed again, people still rarely run in successfully. But, notice that none of these items actually drop from a quest that can be run repeatedly with a chance of getting it, and one of them was only available 2.5 years ago. Also notice that all of them bind. Let's compare that to Dodge bonus items.

Dodge Bonus

• Chaosgarde: +2 Dodge, Bracer slot, Can be farmed ad nauseam
• Chattering Ring: +3 Dodge, Ring slot, Dropped from the Titan raid
• Icy Raiment: +4 Dodge, Outfit, Also farmable, though it is bound on Acquire

So, two Dodge bonus items drop from normal quests, one can even be traded, and there is no item or clicky that duplicates the effect.

So why is Natural Armor seemingly so much more of a pain to get?

[Angelus_dead]

So why is Natural Armor seemingly so much more of a pain to get?

It isn't.

The way DDO characters gain natural armor is by one of
1. Drink a barkskin
2. Wave to a ranger
3. Click Madstone Boots

None of those choices consume a slot on the body, making them superior to methods which do. Therefore, if they were available, items of natural armor bonus would have little value, because you could just get a buff instead. Adding a variety of natural armor bonuses to some new items wouldn't be a bad idea, but it would have to be viewed as a minor side-effect of the gear... not as an AC-boosting enhancement, but more like a plat-saving enhancement (because you buy fewer bark pots)

[Gadget2775]

nvrmnd. brain dead on vacation

[Gennerik]

It isn't.

The way DDO characters gain natural armor is by one of
1. Drink a barkskin
2. Wave to a ranger
3. Click Madstone Boots

None of those choices consume a slot on the body, making them superior to methods which do. Therefore, if they were available, items of natural armor bonus would have little value, because you could just get a buff instead. Adding a variety of natural armor bonuses to some new items wouldn't be a bad idea, but it would have to be viewed as a minor side-effect of the gear... not as an AC-boosting enhancement, but more like a plat-saving enhancement (because you buy fewer bark pots)

I was actually focusing more on getting the permanent bonus on items. This is especially odd, given the list of ways you can already get better Natural Armor bonus (and half the time you don't even have to wave to a Ranger, you just need to walk by them).

But you illustrate the exact point I was making. They have 4 items in the game that are as good as or worse than drinking a 600gp (base price) potion that are all incredibly limited as far as getting (1 special not available to everyone, 1 as a choice for running Invaders 10+ times, and 2 as raid treasure), and another that gives 1 extra armor bonus as treasure from the least-run raid in the game, but that is still worse than a level 12 Ranger can give. To me, it seems like the devs are treating a Natural Armor bonus like its something special as far as getting it put on items, when it's almost easier to get a Dodge bonus on an item. I could understand if there weren't other methods for getting a Natural Armor bonus, but considering that any Ranger could cast it on you (and most do) or you could drop 600-720gp on a potion that lasts for 6 minutes, why aren't there more items that give Natural Armor bonuses (and why are there no +5's out there?)

[binnsr]

(and half the time you don't even have to wave to a Ranger, you just need to walk by them).

Wear ugly armor.. you'll get bark and stoneskin just for being there

[Jondallar]

dodge bonuses are much more valuable because they stack

[stockwizard5]

I understand the OPs point.

I think the issue being discussed is WHY are Natural Armor Bonus Items, which are essentially useless, treated as Valuable by the developers when in fact they are not?

[rimble]

Yeah, I really don't understand including Bracers AC 8 (from PnP) and Icy Raiment Dodge +4 (DDO fabrication) but not Amulet of Natural Armor +5 (straight PnP). Not a huge deal, but nice for AC characters that don't always have a Ranger around...oh nevermind, all the AC characters are TWFing Rangers anyways.

[Turial]

I understand the OPs point.

I think the issue being discussed is WHY are Natural Armor Bonus Items, which are essentially useless, treated as Valuable by the developers when in fact they are not?

Cause dodge bonuses are so much more fun for the devs to put in the game rather then something from a common buff.

The same issue with natural armor bonuses can be applied to protection items...soon they will be less useful because clerics will be able to give out the full +5 version. The only reason the protection items are usefull right now is because you can get the +5 version prior to a cleric being able to cast it on you.

In the case of all the natural armor items in the game...the benafits of the natural armor boost is secondary to the other attributes of the items. The exception being the starter amulet. In the cases of the dodge items the main benafit of the item is the dodge bonus to AC at the cost of interesting barriers/cost to equiping them. The dodge items, however, shouldnt exist unless they all occupied the same body slot to prevent the mass accumulation of dodge bonuses.

[eonfreon]

Well, currently the trend seems to be major encounters with debuffing mobs. The Ranger's Barkskin may be superior (rightly so IMO) and a potion equal to those Natural Armor bonuses on items, but the items are not debuffable, therefore don't have to be constantly reapplied or lost completely either through depleted spellpoints, potions, or circumstances (wherein a person has no time to reapply the effect while fighting/running for his life).
Yes my Ranger's +5 Barkskin is better than +3 potions but I carry them nonetheless, because I often run out of spellpoints, especially now with the higher number of debuffing effects. And potions are also debuffable, making them less useful against the effects on static items against debuffing mobs.
I agree with the OP's point about the apparent difficulty of acquiring said items, especially in comparison to Dodge Bonus items which are more powerful because they stack. However, Dodge items cannot be duplicated with spells, as far as I know, and are pretty essential to AC builds, so that may have been part of the thinking.

[Turial]

...
I agree with the OP's point about the apparent difficulty of acquiring said items, especially in comparison to Dodge Bonus items which are more powerful because they stack. However, Dodge items cannot be duplicated with spells, as far as I know, and are pretty essential to AC builds, so that may have been part of the thinking.

Dodge items would not be as essential to the AC builds if they werent implemented. Traditionally Dodge bonuses don't come on items because they do stack. Without the bracers, ring, and outfit the AC builds would still have CE, dodge (listed as a feat bonus), Haste, and Haste 2 from the triple air proc, uncanny dodge, and improved uncanny dodge for +14 dodge rather then +23 Dodge (ring, bracers, outfit).

And there maybe +5 natural armor items eventually. They will just be rare and likely bound.