Monk/Pally build....need some help

[Jabbathacutt]

hey, well for starters although this isn't my first monk this is my first stab at trying out a multi-class build. i'm trying to get a good AC/saves build and any feedback you can offer would be greatly appreicaited. Please note i didn't bother including any equipment because in all honesty i'm really unfirmilar with most of the really good end game named gear. any suggestions on some must have gear to help out would be great to. thanks.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 2.96
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Monk Pally
Level 16 Lawful Good Human Male
(6 Paladin \ 10 Monk) 
Hit Points: 256
Spell Points: 75 
BAB: 13\13\18\23
Fortitude: 20
Reflex: 16
Will: 16

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 16)
Strength             16                    18
Dexterity            13                    15
Constitution         15                    16
Intelligence          8                     8
Wisdom               13                    15
Charisma             12                    14

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 16)
Balance               2                     8
Bluff                 1                     2.5
Concentration         6                    27
Diplomacy             1                     2
Disable Device       n/a                   n/a
Haggle                1                     2
Heal                  1                     9
Hide                  1                     2
Intimidate            1                     2
Jump                  6                     9
Listen                1                     2
Move Silently         1                     2
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair               -1                    -1
Search               -1                    -1
Spot                  5                    16
Swim                  3                     7
Tumble                5                    14
Use Magic Device      n/a                   n/a

Level 1 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Dodge
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Stunning Fist
Feat: (Human Bonus) Toughness
Enhancement: Disciple of Candles
Enhancement: Disciple of Puddles
Enhancement: Monk Concentration I
Enhancement: Monk Spot I


Level 2 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Follower of the Silver Flame
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I


Level 3 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma I


Level 4 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Improved Sunder
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortiose I
Enhancement: Void Strike
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom I


Level 5 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Dexterity I
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good I


Level 6 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Luck of Heroes
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil II
Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar I


Level 7 (Monk)
Enhancement: Fists of Light
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Turning I


Level 8 (Monk)
Enhancement: Disciple of Breezes
Enhancement: Disciple of Pebbles
Enhancement: Monk Concentration II


Level 9 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Cleave
Enhancement: Lifting the Veil
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortiose II


Level 10 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Deflect Arrows
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom II


Level 11 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Difficulty at the Beginning
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice I
Enhancement: Paladin Heal I


Level 12 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Great Cleave
Enhancement: Silver Flame Exorcism


Level 13 (Monk)
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength II


Level 14 (Monk)
Enhancement: Adept of Flame
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Light I


Level 15 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Extra Turning
Enhancement: Restoring the Balance
Enhancement: Eagle Claw Attack
Enhancement: Paladin Devotion I


Level 16 (Monk)
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortiose III
Enhancement: Monk Tumble I

with the abundance of feats i took a few different ones just to see how they effected the end result. for some reason the generator wouldn't allow my to pick up TWF ( ithink it was because my starting DEX was below 15) so the feat selection is open for change, any suggestions with that would also be great.

[feynman]

Right, your dex is too low; you need 17 to get GTWF, and with that many monk levels, you are going to want to stay centered, and so you need the whole TWF to keep your DPS up.

I would drop CON (it's the easiest stat to make up for; a toughness feat gives more HP than 2 CON points) and boost dex, even if only by a point. A lot also depends on your access to tomes; if you have or can afford a few +1's, then the rest looks pretty good. Otherwise you need to even out your stats (I would say 16/16/12/8/14/12 or thereabouts).

Stunning fist should probably go; with this build, you're not likely to be focusing on wisdom, so the DC will be low, and you have to use unarmed for it to work, which is lower DPS than either TWF or staff. Deflect arrows is another one that you could easily do without. I'm not sure about improved sunder or luck of heroes; it seems like there are better choices. Of course, I took several toughness feats, so /shrug.

[Jabbathacutt]

hey thanks for the feedback, i realized after the fact that my Dex was way to low (i had another idea for a multiclass build and i must have not changed my stats to go with this one). Do you think lowering strength and increasing Dex and going with weapon finnesse might be a better option? i forgot that the stunning fist had to use be used with bare hands so perhaps i could scrap that for something else, i just found that i ended up with so many feats that i was running out of thing to take.

[Jay203]

well, if you plan on going ac, then it's for sure you should go for dex build, so starting str can be lowered a little bit
consider picking up Combat Expertise for that extra +5 AC when you really need it
focus more on wisdom and dex (more so on dex since that's going to be your to-hit) and pick up weapon finesse
paladin faith, go for unyielding sovereinty, it'll serve you better than exorcism

again, you need to give up more on what you want to do and whether you have preferences with weapon or whatever before we can give more tips

[feynman]

hey thanks for the feedback, i realized after the fact that my Dex was way to low (i had another idea for a multiclass build and i must have not changed my stats to go with this one). Do you think lowering strength and increasing Dex and going with weapon finnesse might be a better option? i forgot that the stunning fist had to use be used with bare hands so perhaps i could scrap that for something else, i just found that i ended up with so many feats that i was running out of thing to take.

The problem with that is that our DPS is already low, so lowering strength is contra-indicated, and you need base 16 strength for 3rd tier sun stance (+3 strength), which is huge. In that context, since you're going to have a high strength, anyway, why not keep it close to dex and save the feat? And if you don't know what to spend a feat on, it's hard to go wrong with toughness

Combat expertise is a definite loss for monks; you can't use it and power attack at the same time, and after level 8, you won't ever turn off power attack.

[Jay203]

Combat expertise is a definite loss for monks; you can't use it and power attack at the same time, and after level 8, you won't ever turn off power attack.

LOL, fey, i noticed you really like to preach ppl into loving Power Attack :P

[feynman]

LOL, fey, i noticed you really like to preach ppl into loving Power Attack :P

Heh, for any class other than monk, it's not so important; for us, it is mandatory.

[Jay203]

Heh, for any class other than monk, it's not so important; for us, it is mandatory.

unless you just wanna sit there and look pretty =)
lol, jk, i find that if you go halfling monk and take halfling guile, it really helps with the dps =) and don't forget to use all the elemental stance attacks =)

[feynman]

unless you just wanna sit there and look pretty =)
lol, jk, i find that if you go halfling monk and take halfling guile, it really helps with the dps =) and don't forget to use all the elemental stance attacks =)

My only issue with the guile line is that it doesn't work against everything; it's nice when it does, but when it doesn't...well, back to the "looking pretty", right?

That being said, as long as you have a decent strength, you should be OK; the guy on our server with base 8 strength, though...

[Silverjade]

I would not go below a 13str as that is the base min for power attack.
For my stats if i where to make this (28p)13str 16dex 13con 8int 12wis 12cha as a 28point human with 32point human id go 14str 16dex 14con 8 int 12wis 14cha but thats 32pointer.Id pick up power attack and stunning fist.I like the idea really as i have a at the time being 5paly/2monk dex based twf.
A 8 str? must make it hard to do any thing.

[feynman]

I would not go below a 13str as that is the base min for power attack.
For my stats if i where to make this (28p)13str 16dex 13con 8int 12wis 12cha as a 28point human with 32point human id go 14str 16dex 14con 8 int 12wis 14cha but thats 32pointer.Id pick up power attack and stunning fist.I like the idea really as i have a at the time being 5paly/2monk dex based twf.
A 8 str? must make it hard to do any thing.

Not naming names, but if you think about a certain Patrick Swayze drag-queen flick...and yes, he is completely useless.

I would go heavier into strength, but that's just my style.

If I were doing it all over again? Halfling 9 rogue/6 ranger/1 monk finesse build, dual-wielding rapiers, and I might or might not take CE; Power attack is just too nice. I love finesse, but you have to have high crit-range weapons to make up the DPS, which, of course, monks don't get.

[Jabbathacutt]

well, if you plan on going ac, then it's for sure you should go for dex build, so starting str can be lowered a little bit
consider picking up Combat Expertise for that extra +5 AC when you really need it
focus more on wisdom and dex (more so on dex since that's going to be your to-hit) and pick up weapon finesse
paladin faith, go for unyielding sovereinty, it'll serve you better than exorcism

again, you need to give up more on what you want to do and whether you have preferences with weapon or whatever before we can give more tips

cool, this is definatlety helping me out. where i'm planning to go mostly monk (10 lvls) my weapon base would be monk weapons to keep him centered. i'll try to pick up and good set of handwraps and have a few kamas on hand for TWF. do you guys think it would be any benifit to choose the dark as opposed to light path? i went with the light path due to the fact that there are more abilities that the dark path. with reference to power attack does a quarter staff count as a two handed weapon doubling the damage?

[Jabbathacutt]

oh yeah while i'm thinking about it, do you think that maybe dropping 2 lvls of monk for 2 rogue would be any benifit and would i be spreading things out to thin?

[Silverjade]

Not really much point for two rog levs if you are going mostly monk one rog lev would do for unlocking skills and the sneak attack but not much point in going past 1 level in rog.Yes a staff does i like using the light side for fist of light.
Yeah i dont like going below a 14str but for some things to stats have to go that way for it to work right.

[Jay203]

cool, this is definatlety helping me out. where i'm planning to go mostly monk (10 lvls) my weapon base would be monk weapons to keep him centered. i'll try to pick up and good set of handwraps and have a few kamas on hand for TWF. do you guys think it would be any benifit to choose the dark as opposed to light path? i went with the light path due to the fact that there are more abilities that the dark path. with reference to power attack does a quarter staff count as a two handed weapon doubling the damage?

well, the thing is you gotta be more specific in your choice before you build your monk
if you plan on using quarterstaff, then i'd suggest str path
if you plan on using kama and unarmed, go dex path
i'm sure you can still rack up quite high of an AC even if you go str path, just gotta play safer that's all

[feynman]

well, the thing is you gotta be more specific in your choice before you build your monk
if you plan on using quarterstaff, then i'd suggest str path
if you plan on using kama and unarmed, go dex path
i'm sure you can still rack up quite high of an AC even if you go str path, just gotta play safer that's all

My solution: Both!

My starting stats:

STR 16
DEX 16
CON 12
INT 8
WIS 16
CHA 8


I understand that you need CHA for some of your pally skills, so I might go:

STR 16
DEX 16
CON 12
INT 8
WIS 14
CHA 12

The wisdom does less for you than either STR or DEX, so that's where I'd take the hit.

[Jay203]

My solution: Both!

My starting stats:

STR 16
DEX 16
CON 12
INT 8
WIS 16
CHA 8


I understand that you need CHA for some of your pally skills, so I might go:

STR 16
DEX 16
CON 12
INT 8
WIS 14
CHA 12

The wisdom does less for you than either STR or DEX, so that's where I'd take the hit.

heck, why stop there? :P
STR: 17
DEX: 16
CON: 8
INT: 8
WIS: 14
CHA: 11
shove in a +1 str tome, +1 dex tome and a +1 cha tome and you're set to take twf feats

[feynman]

heck, why stop there? :P
STR: 17
DEX: 16
CON: 8
INT: 8
WIS: 14
CHA: 11
shove in a +1 str tome, +1 dex tome and a +1 cha tome and you're set to take twf feats

LOL, I don't mind ditching CON a little, but 8 is a bit extreme

[Jay203]

LOL, I don't mind ditching CON a little, but 8 is a bit extreme

but i prefer the extreme builds =)
makes you play a lot safer =P

[Jabbathacutt]

alright, again i thank everyone for their feedback, so here another attempt at a monk/pally build. this time i went with more of a focus on DEX and TWF. still a little bit unsure of what equipment is out there so i'm sure with the right gear i could get my AC and saves a little higher. Anyway let me know what you think.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 2.96
DDO Character Planner Home Page

monk  pally
Level 16 Lawful Good Human Male
(6 Paladin \ 10 Monk) 
Hit Points: 242
Spell Points: 90 
BAB: 13\13\18\23
Fortitude: 18
Reflex: 19
Will: 17

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 16)
Strength             15                    16
Dexterity            16                    21
Constitution         12                    12
Intelligence          8                     8
Wisdom               14                    16
Charisma             12                    14

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 16)
Balance               5                     9
Bluff                 1                     2
Concentration         5                    25
Diplomacy             1                     2
Disable Device       n/a                   n/a
Haggle                1                     2
Heal                  2                     9
Hide                  3                     5
Intimidate            1                     2
Jump                  4                    10
Listen                2                     4
Move Silently         3                     5
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair               -1                    -1
Search               -1                    -1
Spot                  4                    14
Swim                  4                     9
Tumble                7                    16
Use Magic Device      n/a                   n/a

Level 1 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Dodge
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Human Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Disciple of Breezes
Enhancement: Disciple of Candles
Enhancement: Monk Concentration I
Enhancement: Monk Jump I


Level 2 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I


Level 3 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma I


Level 4 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Weapon Finesse
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortiose I
Enhancement: Void Strike
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom I


Level 5 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Dexterity I
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I


Level 6 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Defense
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil II
Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar I


Level 7 (Monk)
Enhancement: Fists of Light
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Turning I


Level 8 (Monk)
Enhancement: Disciple of Pebbles
Enhancement: Disciple of Puddles
Enhancement: Monk Concentration II


Level 9 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortiose II
Enhancement: Restoring the Balance


Level 10 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness
Enhancement: Adept of Wind
Enhancement: Adept of Flame


Level 11 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom II


Level 12 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Luck of Heroes
Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty


Level 13 (Monk)
Enhancement: Difficulty at the Beginning
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Light I


Level 14 (Monk)
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma II


Level 15 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength II


Level 16 (Monk)
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortiose III
Enhancement: Eagle Claw Attack