Druids : Your thoughts?

[nbhs275]

There has been much talk since the very beginning of when will they implement druids. And there has always been a question quickly attached to it. How will they do all the shape-shifting goodness?

Now, my oppinion about this has always been to give them abilitie similiar to rage, in that they can enter a state that for as long as it lasts they gain a boost to combat stats while being unable to cast spells. There could be a base state altered, and enhanced via enhancments.

Another thing people think about when they think druid is animal companions. Do you think that should be a consideration for the druids?

I want Honest opinions. And, of course as always any dev opinions, facts, or tid-bits are very much welcome.

[jkm]

1. wild shape is going to take the most time to implement - just like unarmed combat did for monks - yet it is going to be very underwhelming because it won't scale with the hit point inflation in ddo (just like monk unarmed combat doesn't). in the end, people are going to use it for a) the fact that it counts as a full heal when you shift and b) if there are other passive bonuses while in wild form (thinking movement rate through town here).

2. 1 monk/X druid is going to have a pretty insane self-buffed ac with wisdom mod and full barkskin

3. druids have some of the best spells in ddo as well as being a spontaneous caster (heal, finger of death, firewall, stoneskin, barkskin, fom, deathward) this combined with a lot of DOT spells - ice storm (meh), call lightning and call lightning storm (10 ticks on call lightning, 15 on lightning storm). curious if the bees in the hound are going to be what the insect plague does.
---- the biggest issue is no haste so they can't take the place of an arcane/bard in most parties. this leaves them in the extra class/cleric slot.

[theANTItommy]

[QUOTE=nbhs275;1837039]
Another thing people think about when they think druid is animal companions[QUOTE]


i would LOVE to see this, especially if familiars for casters came with them.
my uneducated guess tho is animal companion will be along the lines of a summon spell (maybe with a longer duration?). i have a hard time picturing a bunch of wolves following people around in the marketplace like puppies

[cdbd3rd]

Druids : Your thoughts?

Druids reply, "We have no thoughts for we are not here............Yet."

[branmakmuffin]

my uneducated guess tho is animal companion will be along the lines of a summon spell (maybe with a longer duration?). i have a hard time picturing a bunch of wolves following people around in the marketplace like puppies

It happens in PnP. I just wonder, if they do implement companions as a true companion rather than as a summon spell, what happens when the companion dies? Will it drop a soulstone?

[Dexxaan]

Druids?

Not really needed IMO unless you start making the base group size 7 and raids 14.

They lack Haste;
They are not gonna Buff you as much as Wiz-Sorc;
They lack Haste;
They can´t heal like a Cleric;
They lack haste;
They can´t Tank like a melee class;
They lack Haste;

Melee´s without Haste ? That won´t go very far....the wasted resources and Mana outflow will make you seriously wonder who or what´s causing it.

Sure you can make a Party with a Druid in there, but I´d rather have a Wiz-Sorc and a Bard, Cleric and 3 melee´s any day. You throw a Druid in the mix and u lose the Arcane, the Music Buffs or a melee......not good.

Don´t get me wrong I don´t hate Druids, but they´re definitely gonna make PUGGING a nastier affair than it already is.

Imagine an Elite "Made to Order" run with:

1 Cleric
1 Druid
1 Monk
1 Wizard
1 Rogue (gotta have one)
1 Barbarian

3 hours later.....someones gonna want to ditch the Druid or the Monk.

[nbhs275]

Druids?

Not really needed IMO unless you start making the base group size 7 and raids 14.

They lack Haste;
They are not gonna Buff you as much as Wiz-Sorc;
They lack Haste;
They can´t heal like a Cleric;
They lack haste;
They can´t Tank like a melee class;
They lack Haste;

Melee´s without Haste ? That won´t go very far....the wasted resources and Mana outflow will make you seriously wonder who or what´s causing it.

Sure you can make a Party with a Druid in there, but I´d rather have a Wiz-Sorc and a Bard, Cleric and 3 melee´s any day. You throw a Druid in the mix and u lose the Arcane, the Music Buffs or a melee......not good.

Don´t get me wrong I don´t hate Druids, but they´re definitely gonna make PUGGING a nastier affair than it already is.

Imagine an Elite "Made to Order" run with:

1 Cleric
1 Druid
1 Monk
1 Wizard
1 Rogue (gotta have one)
1 Barbarian

3 hours later.....someones gonna want to ditch the Druid or the Monk.

Im not sure how your figuring that druids arent good. Or was that very poor sarcasm?

Great buffs, strong healing, good casting, and if made correctly good melee abilities. There is a reason that in PnP CoD rules all.

[Dexxaan]

Im not sure how your figuring that druids arent good. Or was that very poor sarcasm? Read Post again..it´s in there.....

Great buffs (Decent...not even close to uber), strong healing(Decent...not even close Uber), good casting(decent...not even close to uber), and if made correctly good melee abilities (Like Monks or more like my Evasion Wizard with Tensers...) There is a reason that in PnP CoD rules all. DDO isn´t PnP....or did I take an extra long vacation and miss something?

Again, not bashing the Class, rather the Game-Fit.

[Laith]

personally, i think wild shape is going to function quite a bit like monk stances (+/- stats, with special attacks/features). Probably with ability modifiers similar to the stances as well. This makes wildshape modifiers smaller than in PnP, but it also means that we could have magic items function in wildshape (they don't work when shifted in PnP).

one concern is how they handle the summoning.
Summoning is a major class feature of druids, afterall: they spontaniously cast it. Fortunately, summons in DDO will probably have a large impact on gameplay.

We have no real reason to assume that a druid wouldn't be able to replace a melee (especially in animal companions are included & worthwhile).
Since they're a healing class, they'll automatically have a higher standing than monks, pallys, and probably even rogues in most quests... even if they only heal in extreme situations.

[Dracolich]

Druids?

Not really needed IMO unless you start making the base group size 7 and raids 14.

They lack Haste;
They are not gonna Buff you as much as Wiz-Sorc;
They lack Haste;
They can´t heal like a Cleric;
They lack haste;
They can´t Tank like a melee class;
They lack Haste;

Melee´s without Haste ? That won´t go very far....the wasted resources and Mana outflow will make you seriously wonder who or what´s causing it.

Sure you can make a Party with a Druid in there, but I´d rather have a Wiz-Sorc and a Bard, Cleric and 3 melee´s any day. You throw a Druid in the mix and u lose the Arcane, the Music Buffs or a melee......not good.

Don´t get me wrong I don´t hate Druids, but they´re definitely gonna make PUGGING a nastier affair than it already is.

Imagine an Elite "Made to Order" run with:

1 Cleric
1 Druid
1 Monk
1 Wizard
1 Rogue (gotta have one)
1 Barbarian

3 hours later.....someones gonna want to ditch the Druid or the Monk.

I would have rather Druids been implimented then Monks. I love Monks as a class in PnP.

[GeneralDiomedes]

Imagine an Elite "Made to Order" run with:

1 Cleric
1 Druid
1 Monk
1 Wizard
1 Rogue (gotta have one)
1 Barbarian

3 hours later.....someones gonna want to ditch the Druid or the Monk.

I fail to see how this group would take 3 hours .. the traps are the only really nasty thing about this quest. You've got the essential ingredients for a quick and easy run: disabler for traps, lockpick for the shrine, disintegrate for the golems, haste/stoneskin/barkskin for the melee, arcane AOE DPS, FTS or insta-kill for enemy casters, d-door, and elemental buffs.

[nbhs275]

Again, not bashing the Class, rather the Game-Fit.

Im not seeing anything that supports your thoughts. They get all the healing spells as a cleric, all of the divine buffs, alot of good arcane and divine nukes, and great melee ability. IF they give just wildshape, and the bonuses we should be able to get your looking at a melee character with high 50s str and con. If they give us boosts, yet again your looking at very high str, dex,con melees, who can also get good ac.

Please, if your gunna make such a weird claim, support it somehow instead of just saying its not good.

[Uska]

1. wild shape is going to take the most time to implement - just like unarmed combat did for monks - yet it is going to be very underwhelming because it won't scale with the hit point inflation in ddo (just like monk unarmed combat doesn't). in the end, people are going to use it for a) the fact that it counts as a full heal when you shift and b) if there are other passive bonuses while in wild form (thinking movement rate through town here).

2. 1 monk/X druid is going to have a pretty insane self-buffed ac with wisdom mod and full barkskin

3. druids have some of the best spells in ddo as well as being a spontaneous caster (heal, finger of death, firewall, stoneskin, barkskin, fom, deathward) this combined with a lot of DOT spells - ice storm (meh), call lightning and call lightning storm (10 ticks on call lightning, 15 on lightning storm). curious if the bees in the hound are going to be what the insect plague does.
---- the biggest issue is no haste so they can't take the place of an arcane/bard in most parties. this leaves them in the extra class/cleric slot.

spontaneous caster not really they can cast any summon nature's ally spell instead of what spell they have memo'd for that level so nowhere as useful for them as for clerics.

[Angelus_dead]

1. wild shape is going to take the most time to implement - just like unarmed combat did for monks - yet it is going to be very underwhelming because it won't scale with the hit point inflation in ddo (just like monk unarmed combat doesn't). in the end, people are going to use it for a) the fact that it counts as a full heal when you shift and b) if there are other passive bonuses while in wild form (thinking movement rate through town here).

Turbine will be smarter than to implement such a naive wildshape. In particular, you can be 95% sure that Handwraps will have full effect on the natural attacks granted by the animal form.

2. 1 monk/X druid is going to have a pretty insane self-buffed ac with wisdom mod and full barkskin

That would be a real problem, but hopefully Turbine will be smart enough to avoid it.

The best fix would have been to restrict monks' wisdom AC bonus to a max of 1+monk level * 2. Of course, it's too late for that now, so they'd have to use another fix, like:
a. Non-metallic armors continue to work in wild shape, and provide both Armor AC and Max Dex limit.
b. Wild-shaping puts you into a "neutral mindset", and special abilities requiring a non-neutral alignment cease to function.

---- the biggest issue is no haste so they can't take the place of an arcane/bard in most parties. this leaves them in the extra class/cleric slot.

And that's a good place to be, because the cleric slot is the one most parties need help filling. Druids are only minorly worse than clerics at healing spells, and they can pretty much make up for it with barkskin + stoneskin.

[KKDragonLord]

A very easy and doable way to prevent monk/druid is making druids Neutral and Neutral Good only, as it was in 2ed Ad&d and that would make it impossible to get monk levels, as it is impossible to make a barbarian/paladin.

[Angelus_dead]

A very easy and doable way to prevent monk/druid is making druids Neutral and Neutral Good only, as it was in 2ed Ad&d and that would make it impossible to get monk levels, as it is impossible to make a barbarian/paladin.

Yes that would work, but it would be too much, because preventing monks/druid entirely is not the objective. The problem that should be avoided is allowing a druid with just 1 monk level to add his 10+ wis mod to wildshaped AC.

[Lymnus]

The million dollar question is if we get Natural Spell.

Typically, the archtypes of Druids are:

Shifted-Tank (Think self-buffing warchanter thing here.)
Caster Druid (Call Lightning, Inferno, and all their nice nuking spells)
Healing Druid (Gets Full Heal, along with Full Barkskin/Stoneskin, along with other nice buffs.)

If we don't get Natural Spell, I doubt Shifter-tanks will be as potent. But, of course, with 32 minute extended buffs it could be argued Natural Spell isn't needed.

I'm also curious if they'll add feats like Elephant's Skin from NWN2. (You expend a wild shape to buff yourself in some fashion)

[Borror0]

3 hours later.....someones gonna want to ditch the Druid or the Monk.

I can see for the monk, but why kicking the druid?

[Lymnus]

I can see for the monk, but why kicking the druid?

Because the person playing the druid was a noob. XP

[jkm]

Turbine will be smarter than to implement such a naive wildshape. In particular, you can be 95% sure that Handwraps will have full effect on the natural attacks granted by the animal form.

a) i agree with you on the handwraps. they wouldn't have went through the time to develop them without more classes in mind.

b) i just can't see them scaling the natural attacks to be worth anything because that isn't their mindset. assuming we don't see multiattack and they gives us one base value

level 1-4 - wolf 1d6/x20 + str mod (1)
level 5-8 - lion 1d8/x20 + str mod (5)
level 9-12 - tiger 2d6/x20 + str mod (5)
level 13-16 - bear 2d8/x20 + str mod (8)

if they implement it this way they are going to spend 100's of dev hours for something that looks cool, but just doesn't measure up in game. which is what has happened with monks and unarmed combat.