WTB W/p Rapier

[Tat2Freak]

Er, so if you kill each individual thing with an average time difference in a range that's faster than your response to notice the creature is dead and move on to the next one, the number of kills don't matter. Lag and human reflexes swallow the difference up until you're taking about 4 combat rounds to kill something, and what takes that long to kill?

And those silly threats about "i'll outkill you any day" are amusing but have nothing to do with the very simple mathematical comparison of the weapons. The results simply show that you're looking at a difference of less than one swing to make up the average con damage delt by both in a period of 2 combat rounds (say 10 swings). My basis for comparison is with a tempest ranger, and given that, one swing is slightly less than 1/3 of a second. We're talking about a fraction of that.

Either you get it or you don't, but it is a fact regardless. We've spammed this trade thread with enough nonsense.

...now someone wants to disprove your little "facts" and all we get is... crickets

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHA

[gfunk]

Just cause im bored at work....

I dont have either w/p ss or w/p rapier.. does that make me objective? Currently I use a holy puncturing rapier and an axiomatic punturing rapier when I'm going for stat damage with my ranger. In casual questing where we are just running and gunning i'll try and keep up on kills with the w/p guys. Even when it seems we are both trying ill occasionally beat out the ss guy.. though its tough. The duel weilding rapier player? never...not unless he is really slacking off or doesnt care about kills.

On a raging barbarian, rapiers are scary fast at taking out the trash. If a barb closes with a mob and is using w/p rapiers, i wont even bother heading over to help... it will be dead long before i get there.

Also, its not just w/p. Look at the prices of any rapier compared with a similar shortsword. The rapier is always much higher priced. When im selling stuff on the AH i can barely give shortswords away, but even the low end rapiers i post always sell at a decent price.

people pay for it because that 17.5% matters

[geoffhanna]

I want one

[Hadrian]

...now someone wants to disprove your little "facts" and all we get is... crickets

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHA

Yes, this sort of attitude is deserving of being ignored. If you refuse to try to grasp what I am saying, what good would 'proving' it to you do? The math proves it, because it's what governs the game's reality. Typing nonsense in caps probably changes that, though. Job well done!

Also, its not just w/p. Look at the prices of any rapier compared with a similar shortsword. The rapier is always much higher priced. When im selling stuff on the AH i can barely give shortswords away, but even the low end rapiers i post always sell at a decent price.

people pay for it because that 17.5% matters

Sure but the difference between just puncturing is +50% in favor of the rapier. If you're just puncturing, I won't argue that the rapier is far ahead. If you're w/p, the wounding part is 50% of the total con damage output and it's identical for both. If you run into something where you can't pass DR, then sure the rapier is better, but it's just comparing puncturing and not w/p. You can switch to a puncturing rapier if you like for those situations, but you don't need to spend 70 larges for a w/p rapier for situations where wounding won't land anyway. That makes no sense.

As far as beating a w/p shortsword with a puncturing rapier - as I posted earlier the wounding effect does 0.95 con damage per swing on average, and the puncturing does 1.05 rapier and 0.7 short sword. Again, don't compare builds - compare the weapons. Anecdotal evidence aside, the math says the w/p short sword does more than 50% additional con damage compared to the puncturing rapier. That is a bigger advantage than the puncturing rapier has over the puncturing short sword. It doesn't work both ways.

[thisgamesull]

Kehg just let him be bud no point in getting worked over. He is just trying to justify to himself cuz he doesn't have the w/p rapier and he wants to still feel like his toon is worth something. those of us who have run with SS and now run with rapiers KNOW the difference. and any numbers you put on paper dont change the fact that a w/p rapier is better then a w/p ss in any given case. As for what it is worth.... to each there own. but i will say this, now that i have mine, i would N.E.V.E.R sell/trade them thus saying you could not put a price on them--that is what ppl see and why they bid so much for them. I'm sry you dont get that Hadrian, that might be why you'll always just be a marginal player! Nuff said. Now i think the OP is still looking if anyone has one to sell/trade.

/agreed

[spyderwolf]

Kehg just let him be bud no point in getting worked over. He is just trying to justify to himself cuz he doesn't have the w/p rapier and he wants to still feel like his toon is worth something. those of us who have run with SS and now run with rapiers KNOW the difference. and any numbers you put on paper dont change the fact that a w/p rapier is better then a w/p ss in any given case. As for what it is worth.... to each there own. but i will say this, now that i have mine, i would N.E.V.E.R sell/trade them thus saying you could not put a price on them--that is what ppl see and why they bid so much for them. I'm sry you dont get that Hadrian, that might be why you'll always just be a marginal player! Nuff said. Now i think the OP is still looking if anyone has one to sell/trade.

im in the the rapier is much better than the ss boat, ive used ss before and i currently have 3 rapiers, but hadrian is anythign but a marginal player. id vouch for him any day of the week. so you may be able to dispute his arguement all day long if you want to, but there is no disputing his level of skill.

[gfunk]

As far as beating a w/p shortsword with a puncturing rapier - as I posted earlier the wounding effect does 0.95 con damage per swing on average, and the puncturing does 1.05 rapier and 0.7 short sword. Again, don't compare builds - compare the weapons. Anecdotal evidence aside, the math says the w/p short sword does more than 50% additional con damage compared to the puncturing rapier. That is a bigger advantage than the puncturing rapier has over the puncturing short sword. It doesn't work both ways.

I would never argue that a straight puncturing rapier is as good as a w/p ss (the math on it is quite obvious), im not sure how you got that out of what I wrote. I was trying to communicate that it's alot easier to keep up with someone weilding ss's then with someone weilding w/p rapers, to help illustrate why the playing populace would hold said weapons in such high esteem.

[nessguy]

Three rolls of 1-12 BOTH - not dead
Three rolls of 13-14 Rapiers - dead, SS - not dead
Three rolls of 15-20 BOTH - dead

.

i think you just destroyed your argument and proved the rest of ours with this little statement

thanks for that

[Thrudh]

Originally Posted by Thrudh
Three rolls of 1-12 BOTH - not dead
Three rolls of 13-14 Rapiers - dead, SS - not dead
Three rolls of 15-20 BOTH - dead

i think you just destroyed your argument and proved the rest of ours with this little statement

thanks for that

Rapiers are better... no one is disputing that... They deal out, on average, 17.5% more CON damage than Shortswords/daggers... That IS noticeable... That is NOT game-changing.... I'm not sure how I destroyed my argument showing that on TWO ROLLS OUT OF TWENTY, the rapier is better...

Anyone with shortswords/daggers w/p kicks ass... Anyone with rapiers w/p kicks ass slightly more...

Rapiers ARE the best stat damagers...

All I'm saying is, if your characters aren't all maxed out, you'll get a LOT more bang for your buck getting a dozen or so top-line items to spread among all your characters than you would getting a single w/p rapier on ONE of your characters...

w/p Rapiers are only worth 100 million gold to those who have nothing else to spend their money on... At which point, money has lost all it's value to them.... The only reason w/p rapiers go for 100 million gold is not because they are equal in worth to 100 million in gold of w/p shortswords, bloodstones, firestorm greaves, spectral gloves, etc. but because the people who buy them already HAVE bloodstones, firestorm greaves, spectral gloves, etc.

I mean look at this way... Which is WORTH more to a player with zero gear...

One w/p rapier

or

Two w/p shortswords
a bloodstone
firestorm greaves
spectral gloves
Planar Gird
Boots of the Innocent
12 large ingrediants

You guys are arguing that the one w/p rapier is "worth" the same as all that... A character with the second list will be a LOT more powerful and useful in combat than the guy with just the rapier

In one sense, something is worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it.... That's a legitimate definition... But when you're so rich that money has no meaning... it's hard to really define "worth"

Just remember that people pay over $100 million dollars for certain paintings... That only happens when people are so rich (Billionaires) that money has lost all meaning... Is that piece of art really "worth" the same as $100 million dollars of medicine or food or housing?

[Warrax23]

Woot... got one. thanks serjaad.

Thread closed as far as I'm concerned.