WTB W/p Rapier

[pepsi36]

I know of at least 4 that have gone for less then 60 as early as last week, the problem is I didn't have em last week hehe. I sold a lot of stuff to get this many larges so I can get one rapier.

I figured I'd offer 70 larges which is **** near enough to make 3 super shards for 1.

If I had another rapier I'd sell it to ya...

[itslex1]

If I had one I might consider it... you'd still have to sing for it tho.

[Warrax23]

Oh I'd sing...

[Hadrian]

Tell ya what - you send me the 70 larges and the next time I pull a w/p rapier (and you find out about it) you can have it!

[Hadrian]

I know I've told you this in game, but I still don't think the rapier is worth it. The difference in performance between a shortsword and a rapier is not all that much, and those larges would get you 3 supershards.

I'd say that will be much more useful to you.

[Warrax23]

I absolutely agree, but it's more of a status item for me rather then a funtional weapon.. and yes 3 supershards will impact my chars more.

[spyderwolf]

free bump

[thisgamesull]

I know I've told you this in game, but I still don't think the rapier is worth it. The difference in performance between a shortsword and a rapier is not all that much, and those larges would get you 3 supershards.

I'd say that will be much more useful to you.

lol, yes it is a major difference take it from some 1 who had a pair for a more then a year

[Hadrian]

lol, yes it is a major difference take it from some 1 who had a pair for a more then a year

I'll trust my own experiences.

[nessguy]

I'll trust my own experiences.

you'd be silly, or inexperienced to believe short swords are almost as good.

[Hadrian]

you'd be silly, or inexperienced to believe short swords are almost as good.

Or, you know, able to understand numbers.

A short sword on a tempest build is 91% as effective as a rapier on a normal build in terms of con damage per second. What does this mean in terms of in-game differences? A fraction of a second in TTK (time to kill) against any target.

Based on common sense, I'd say it's silly to pay a fortune for something you'd need a parser to notice half of the time. It's not even the difference of a single swing if you're typically killing things in 2 combat rounds or less.

[nessguy]

Or, you know, able to understand numbers.

A short sword on a tempest build is 91% as effective as a rapier on a normal build in terms of con damage per second. What does this mean in terms of in-game differences? A fraction of a second in TTK (time to kill) against any target.

Based on common sense, I'd say it's silly to pay a fortune for something you'd need a parser to notice half of the time. It's not even the difference of a single swing if you're typically killing things in 2 combat rounds or less.

silly again..
most people who use w/p rapiers are making critical rage barbarians. criting on 13 versus 17 on a ranger (for shortswords) is a HUGE difference. and if you cant see how 4 die numbers (20%) increase makes a difference than you'll need to reevaluate your.. um...you know... understanding of numbers...

[Hadrian]

silly again..
most people who use w/p rapiers are making critical rage barbarians. criting on 13 versus 17 on a ranger (for shortswords) is a HUGE difference. and if you cant see how 4 die numbers (20&#37 increase makes a difference than you'll need to reevaluate your.. um...you know... understanding of numbers...

Yeah. I saw one of those in Rainbow in the Dark on elite last night - a full barbarian with 2 rapiers. I finished with 62 kills and him with 31, despite the fact that I went afk for a while during the quest. Why? I have 70 AC, evasion and soft capped saves, and he has virtually no mitigation.

He came in tied with the other ranger in the group, give or take a kill.

Edit: I didn't bring a smiter with me, so I got none of the construct kills, too.

But the point is that the rapier, while slightly better, is not worth the fortune as it doesn't translate to a real in-game measurable difference. If you have tempest, you're basically killing as fast as a non-tempest with rapiers, which has been considered great for a long time. If that's not good enough for you to the point where you want to spend a fortune on a marginal increase, so be it.

[Thar]

I see your point, its worthless.

If you pull one, please send that piece of garbage to me and i will properly recycle. Save the environment!

[nessguy]

Yeah. I saw one of those in Rainbow in the Dark on elite last night - a full barbarian with 2 rapiers. I finished with 62 kills and him with 31, despite the fact that I went afk for a while during the quest. Why? I have 70 AC, evasion and soft capped saves, and he has virtually no mitigation.

He came in tied with the other ranger in the group, give or take a kill.

Edit: I didn't bring a smiter with me, so I got none of the construct kills, too.

But the point is that the rapier, while slightly better, is not worth the fortune as it doesn't translate to a real in-game measurable difference. If you have tempest, you're basically killing as fast as a non-tempest with rapiers, which has been considered great for a long time. If that's not good enough for you to the point where you want to spend a fortune on a marginal increase, so be it.

challenge you to a kill count race in rainbow elite than

I see your point, its worthless.

If you pull one, please send that piece of garbage to me and i will properly recycle. Save the environment!

AGREED, id be a good recycling bin for w/p rapiers. send those useless things my way when and if you ever get one okay?
i have 3 of them, but id like to "recycle" more of them if you know what i mean

[artvan_delet]

Looks like the rainbow elite gauntlet has been thrown down. I'll be glad to cleric for you both, although I only have 1750 mana. Fortunately, I have pots. All joking aside, if you're talking kill count only, there is a "measurable difference" and clear advantage to dual wielding w/p rapier barb over the non-w/p rapier tempest.

[Tomalon]

If that's not good enough for you to the point where you want to spend a fortune on a marginal increase, so be it.

marginal increases is what this game is about...... Dodge feat for 1 more a/c..... alchem for 1 more a/c..........Evereything is all about 1 more. So yes the rapier is worth it and if that marginal difference lets a mob die one second faster that might be one less heal the cleric has to throw saving him the mana needed to raise you cuz you dont believe in marginal increases.

[Tat2Freak]

marginal increases is what this game is about...... Dodge feat for 1 more a/c..... alchem for 1 more a/c..........Evereything is all about 1 more. So yes the rapier is worth it and if that marginal difference lets a mob die one second faster that might be one less heal the cleric has to throw saving him the mana needed to raise you cuz you dont believe in marginal increases.

...and totally correct.




p.s. I've been pondering how to get that point across to this person (without getting sick days) since this thread started, thanks.

[Hadrian]

There is a vast difference between choosing an AC build that is trying to never get hit except on a 20 and seeking one more AC, and another choice in which you seek an upgrade to kill something in 1.9 seconds instead of 2.0. The increase in AC is marginal but the result you're looking for is not in this case. My point is the result of the effect is marginal between the two weapons, but you're comparing an additional single AC point that might result in a player taking 1/2 damage.

If you're on the high end of the AC range and you go from being hit 15% of the time or 10% of the time to 10 or 5%, there is a large measurable difference. You're now taking 2/3 to 1/2 of the damage you were before. A marginal increase in AC doesn't translate to a marginal decrease in damage taken.

When you're on the low end of AC, you're not going to care about 1 more AC because you know it's worthless. Going from getting hit 95% of the time to 90% of the time is not something you're going to feel the effects of. That is the difference between the rapier and short sword.

Technically, crit rage gives more benefit to the short sword since it now crits 50% more often where the rapier only crits 33% more often because of the enhancement, so there would be a smaller margin between the weapons for the raging barb. That is all beside the point; however, since the comparison is between weapons, not classes. Various minor things push the weapons closer together in effect, but in general, they're very close t obegin with. Get two identical characters and give them the same type of creature to attack. See the difference in time to kill on a large enough sample to average out the rolls, and you'll see that the difference isn't enough to impact your kill rate.

[Tat2Freak]

There is a vast difference between an AC build that is trying to never get hit except on a 20 getting one more AC, and another choice in which you kill some target in 2.0 seconds instead of 1.9.

If you're on the high end of the AC range and you go from being hit 15% of the time or 10% of the time to 10 or 5%, there is a large measurable difference. You're now taking 2/3 to 1/2 of the damage you were before. A marginal increase in AC doesn't translate to a marginal decrease in damage taken.

When you're on the low end of AC, you're not going to care about 1 more AC because you know it's worthless. Going from getting hit 95% of the time to 90% of the time is not something you're going to feel the effects of. That is the difference between the rapier and short sword.

...and you cant do that when TIME is whats being measured...those seconds add up (as do all the other measurable benefits i.e. less damage taken, less resources used, more time to recover, etc.) so that over the course of a quest you shave minutes off and thats the difference between a Rapier and a Shortsword...