Help my Dex-Halfling - Reroll advice

[Nauthiz]

Several months ago, I built a Halfling Finesse Fighter. She isn't living up to my expectations. I've been puzzling how to fix her, and a re-roll is likely the best option. She's limited in AC, which I find to be a problem. Her damage output is pretty pathetic, which means the AC is less of an issue because she doesn't draw much aggro. I enjoy being able to heal roughly 1100 HP per shrine. Perhaps I could respec the Dragonmark feats into something else, and perhaps there are a couple key pieces of equipment I should be hunting for. Basically, is this salvageable? Drastic suggestions accepted, since, as I said, a re-roll is very much on my mind.

Thus far, she is 9 Ftr/3Rog/3Pally.

Stats:

STR: 8>16 (+1 Tome, +2 Enhancement, +5 Item)
DEX: 20>32 (+3 level-ups, +3 Enhancement, +6 Item)
CON: 14>20 (+1 Tome, +5 Item)
INT: 10>10
WIS: 10>12 (+2 Item)
CHA: 12>18 (+1 Enhancement, +5 Item)

Feats:

Weapon Finesse
TWF/ITWF/GTWF
Weapon Focus: Pierce
Improved Crit: Pierce
Toughness
Dodge
Lesser/Least/Greater Dragonmark of Healing

HP 280 (138 Class + 75 CON + 67 Toughness/Enhancement)

AC 41:
10 Base
9 Armor (+5 Mithral Breastplate)
8 Dex (with Fighter Armor Mastery II, 3 short of actual Dex bonus)
5 Deflection (Protection Item)
2 Misc (Pally Aura)
3 Dodge (1 Feat, 2 Chaosgarde)
3 Natural (Seal of Earth Ring)
1 Size

To-Hit:
25 (14 BAB, + 11 Dex + 1 Weap Focus +1 Size -2 TWF)

Saves:
Fort 24
Reflex 29
Will 21

[Nauthiz]

Inspired by the Iron Monk build, I feel I could re-roll the above and happily use much of the same equipment. I really appreciated having the Dragonmarks to compensate and heal my own mistakes, and I worry a bit about damage-output and AC without spectacular gear, but as written the Iron Monk had pretty much everything I wanted. Ideally, I'd like to hit 50 AC, 30 to-hit and 20+ Saves with generic equipment and feel confident in working up from there. If those targets are inappropriate for current content, say so now and save me the time. I have a few variations with Halfling, with and without Dragonmark healing. I also tried it as an elf with a few more tomes required. All have Finesse and Tempest. The halflings will have better to-Hit and AC by 1, plus significantly better saves and a few more HP. The elf had higher strength and access to the Elven Melee enhancement line. The difference in the two halfling builds comes to 3 Healing Dragonmark feats vs. Toughness/Weapon Focus/Weapon Spec. Will I miss the DPS, or will the healing be a worthwhile boon? Illuminati's build is a strong contender; consider it option #1. A brief idea of my others is below:

Option #2: Halfling 11 Rng/4 Ftr/1 Mnk

STR: 13>20
DEX: 17>34
CON: 14>20
INT: 12>13 (+1 tome)
WIS: 14>20
CHA: 8

FEATS:
Dodge/Mobility/Spring Attack - for Tempest
Weapon Finesse
Improved Crit: Pierce
Combat Expertise
Two Weapon Defense
Toughness
Weap Focus: Pierce
Weap Specialization: Pierce

Likely basic stats, common equipment:
HP: 269
AC: 43 (10 base, +1 size, +6 Armor, +1 Dodge, +2 Tempest, +1 TWD feat, +12 Dex, +5 WIS, +5 Protection, +??)
to-Hit: 32+
Saves: Fort 22/ Ref 25/ Will 15


Option #3: Elf 11 Rng/4 Ftr/1 Mnk

STR: 14>22
DEX: 17>34
CON: 13>20
INT: 12>13 (+1 tome)
WIS: 14>20
CHA: 8

FEATS:
Dodge/Mobility/Spring Attack - for Tempest
Weapon Finesse
Improved Crit: Pierce
Combat Expertise
Two Weapon Defense
Toughness
Weap Focus: Pierce
Weap Specialization: Pierce

Likely basic stats, common equipment:
HP: 269
AC: 42 (10 base, +6 Armor, +1 Dodge, +2 Tempest, +1 TWD feat, +12 Dex, +5 WIS, +5 Protection, +??)
to-Hit: 32+ (34+ and +2 damage if I manage to replace my shortswords with rapiers)
Saves: Fort 18/ Ref 21/ Will 11


Option #4: Dragonmarked Halfling 11 Rng/4 Ftr/1 Mnk

STR: 13>20
DEX: 17>34
CON: 14>20
INT: 12>13 (+1 tome)
WIS: 14>20
CHA: 8>14

FEATS:
Dodge/Mobility/Spring Attack - for Tempest
Weapon Finesse
Improved Crit: Pierce
Combat Expertise
Two Weapon Defense
Lesser/Least/Greater DragonMarks of Healing

Likely basic stats, common equipment:
HP: 236
AC: 43 (10 base, +1 Size +6 Armor, +1 Dodge, +2 Tempest, +1 TWD feat, +12 Dex, +5 WIS, +5 Protection, +??)
to-Hit: 31+
Saves: Fort 21/ Ref 24/ Will 15

[Nauthiz]

I might add in that the current 9 Ftr/3Rog/3Pally build has Open Lock in the 50s and UMD in the 30s, the latter of which comes in quite handy from time to time, but which will need to be sacrificed in a re-roll. On the angle of salvaging that character, Level 16 will yield another feat, probably Superior TWF, and a +2 Favor Tome is only a few hundred points away. A few Siberys Dragonshards are also available.

[adrinor]

Keep in mind that your barkskin increases to +5 at ranger 12

[Nauthiz]

Keep in mind that your barkskin increases to +5 at ranger 12

Very good point. The more I read, the more of these little things I discover. So far, it looks like my existing fighter is scrap material. Also, thus far, it seems like everything I think of is already done - and done better - by someone else.

[Nauthiz]

Okay. I'm going to make my questions more specific. I acknowledge my original posts were somewhat vague and skeletal. I have not yet managed what I consider to be an adequate high-level melee character. I have spent days staring at notepads and character planners, and truly enjoy the process. I've opened up a character slot for something new.

If nothing else, for those with high level/elite/raid experience, what kind of targets do I want to meet for AC/HP/to-Hit/damage/Saves? I don't have to dominate, but I don't want to be a liability.

AC - 45? 50? 60? - What's acceptable for not getting trounced?
HP - 200? 300? 400? - More is better, but what's a reasonable minimum target?
Attack - 25? 30? 35? - If TWF, how much does more swings make up for lower damage?
Damage - (basically vs. DR) - To land special effects, you need to at least beat DR. What's necessary (average creature)?
Saves - 20s? 30s? - What's a target meet-or-exceed number than I can shoot for?

Let me start with that, and perhaps I'll work out a complete build for some specific criticism. Many thanks to those who can take the time to set some proper expectations for me. =)

[Samadhi]

This build doesnt look that bad honestly.

a) stop wearing mithFP - u need to take advantage of your evasion
b) stop worrying about AC unless you want to reroll - AC build generally need to be planned to be effective. Now, with your dex that high, if you ever get a +3 int tome so you can get CE, it will be salvageable for AC. Did you invest in intimidate though? If not - then AC is still low priority for you.
c) you are a TWF piercing spec'd - with some nice puncturing rapiers this is currently one of the most deadly combos in the game. With the addition of your self-healing dragonmarks; this puts you very high for effectiveness against non-red-named. Against red-named; dex builds will always be the lose, sorry.
d) Your need more HP NOW. That, imo, is the weakest part of this build. Equipment should help a lot. greater false life + minos + AA favor + more toughness feats if necessary. Break 400HP and you should be good considering your self-healing capabilities.
e) you mentioned worrying about your + to hit, with that build it shouldn't be an issue IMO. In fact, you are almost higher than you need to be. generally I build for +30ish at level 16.
f) you also asked about DR, your str sucks, get transmuters if you can't get the holy/cold iron and holy/silver combos u need. In general, though, i would use the best puncturing rapiers u can find on this type of build. With that high of dex and no PA or CE, you can probably dual wield without even getting oversized twf and not even worry about it.

Hope this helps, I have a build similar, it is not a lost cause I assure you.

[geoffhanna]

• AC - 45? 50? 60? 45 is plenty unless you are going for a high AC build. Then you need more like 70
• HP - 200? 300? 400? If you want to melee bosses I think 300 is the minimum for most builds
• Attack - 25? 30? 35? 25 but more is better
• TWF - more swings make up for lower damage? Yes
• Damage - (basically vs. DR)? Better choice is to bypass DR with the right weapon
• Saves - 20s? 30s? Evasion build wants reflex in the high 20's or low 30's. The others matter less

[Nauthiz]

This build doesnt look that bad honestly.

a) stop wearing mithFP - u need to take advantage of your evasion
b) stop worrying about AC unless you want to reroll - AC build generally need to be planned to be effective. Now, with your dex that high, if you ever get a +3 int tome so you can get CE, it will be salvageable for AC. Did you invest in intimidate though? If not - then AC is still low priority for you.
c) you are a TWF piercing spec'd - with some nice puncturing rapiers this is currently one of the most deadly combos in the game. With the addition of your self-healing dragonmarks; this puts you very high for effectiveness against non-red-named. Against red-named; dex builds will always be the lose, sorry.
d) Your need more HP NOW. That, imo, is the weakest part of this build. Equipment should help a lot. greater false life + minos + AA favor + more toughness feats if necessary. Break 400HP and you should be good considering your self-healing capabilities.
e) you mentioned worrying about your + to hit, with that build it shouldn't be an issue IMO. In fact, you are almost higher than you need to be. generally I build for +30ish at level 16.
f) you also asked about DR, your str sucks, get transmuters if you can't get the holy/cold iron and holy/silver combos u need. In general, though, i would use the best puncturing rapiers u can find on this type of build. With that high of dex and no PA or CE, you can probably dual wield without even getting oversized twf and not even worry about it.

Hope this helps, I have a build similar, it is not a lost cause I assure you.

I'm glad to hear it. I'll keep her and try to sort her out.

a) It's actually Mithral Chain Shirt, but I erred. With the right equipment, she could go in robes, but with what I have, the armor bonus still makes up for cutting her short of her full Dex Bonus.

d) I even have some of the equipment, but need to review, and piece together some additional to make it work. She's fairly equipment-intensive.

f) It really is the DR I need to get around. Hitting is actually not too terrible, except I throw up so many yellow 0's it sort a looks like I'm blowing bubbles.

Thanks for the reassurance and advice.

[Nauthiz]

• AC - 45? 50? 60? 45 is plenty unless you are going for a high AC build. Then you need more like 70
• HP - 200? 300? 400? If you want to melee bosses I think 300 is the minimum for most builds
• Attack - 25? 30? 35? 25 but more is better
• TWF - more swings make up for lower damage? Yes
• Damage - (basically vs. DR)? Better choice is to bypass DR with the right weapon
• Saves - 20s? 30s? Evasion build wants reflex in the high 20's or low 30's. The others matter less

Thanks, Geoffhanna. I think I can actually hit most of those targets, barely, with my current build. Plus, they should be pretty easily attainable with another project that I think I may finally have decided on. I'll type it up in a planner when I get back to town in a few days.

[Hadrian]

AC - 45? 50? 60? - What's acceptable for not getting trounced?
HP - 200? 300? 400? - More is better, but what's a reasonable minimum target?
Attack - 25? 30? 35? - If TWF, how much does more swings make up for lower damage?
Damage - (basically vs. DR) - To land special effects, you need to at least beat DR. What's necessary (average creature)?
Saves - 20s? 30s? - What's a target meet-or-exceed number than I can shoot for?

You asked about what is needed for high level raids. I would say there are two points of view, but keep in mind that these numbers need not be so high for any lesser content than the Shroud, Hound and Vision. They're not to be taken as minimums for playing the game, but minimums if you're making a character specifically to do these raids, and you want your saves/hps to reach the marks that mean your character will survive virtually whatever is thrown at it.

1) Focus on damage and inflate your hit points as much as possible, due to the fact that you don't have high enough AC to avoid damage. This build requires moe support, but is capable of more damage.

2) Focus on defense and sacrifice some DPS and hit points for better ability to avoid damage. This build will do less damage but can be self sufficient, and properly geared, may rarely need a heal even in melee with the pit fiend.

If you're doing case 1:

AC: ~45 AC is where most builds end up. You'll still get hit virtually all of the time in a quest like VoD.

HP: You'll want to have 400+ hit points at least to give a healer time to react to a series of hits in a row. If you really want to front line melee in the high-end raids, I'd say 450.

Attack: The poster above said 25, and that is actually going to mean that you'll still miss a lot on things like orthons, especially the named ones. You might need to turn off power attack and go up to a 30, and hit them with destruction to hit those on a 2.

I'd try to aim for at least a 28 with either PA or CE active.

Damage: For most of the creatures, you'll just need a good aligned weapon. For mind flayers, you'll need byeshk. For the pit fiends, you need good aligned + silver. Most people look for transmuting weapons until they can make a mineral 2 shroud weapon.

you might run into a few targets with Dr/- which cannot be bypassed.

Saves: I'd say at the very minimum you'd want 25 fort, 30 reflex and 22 will. You'll still fail saves but those numbers will make a significant difference. 30 reflex or 22 will might not be easy to get depending on your creation choices. You might have to go for one and deal with the other being low, but the fort saves should be easy.

For the mitigation build/low hp build

AC: North of 60
HP: ~300 is ok
Saves: 28/35/25

300 HP is enough if you're able to avoid most of the damage thrown at you, but that requires evasion with mid 30s reflex and mid-to-high 20s for fort and will at the least. This isn't to say that you won't survive with less saves, but you will want to hit these marks to pass almost everything except on a 1.

Some elite level traps will still be a threat with a 35 reflex.

AC of about 63 seems to cover you in almost all situations. The exceptions are cleaving devils/orthons, where your AC needs to be absurdly high (75+ if you want to expect not to get hit), and the big raid bosses.

I would say that not having combat expertise is a big deal for a character below 300 hps. With no monk wisdom bonus to AC, no combat expertise, and no plans to wear a shield, you will always be pretty squishy.

Ideally:

10 base
12 dex (+2 tome)
8 armor bracers
5 protection item
4 icy raiments
3 chattering ring
3 barkskin potion
2 paladin
1 two weapon defense

Gives you a self buffed 48, which is pretty much not going to cut it with no DR and low hit points.