Weapon Finesse question

[Riekan]

I'm sure this has been asked and answered, but I couldn't find it in a timely fashion...

Does the Weapon Finesse feat work with unarmed combat? I know it will work with Kamas, but not QS, so I'm trying to decide which weapon set to go with. I haven't rolled yet and am leaning towards a character with more dex than str for AC (but not by much since I want to be able to actually do damage also, probably 14 str 16 dex to start. Haven't decided level ups yet). Will end up with about 22 str and probably around 26 dex so weapon finesse would be good for Kamas and hopefully unarmed. If it doesn't work that way, I might have to rethink my starting stats and not waste the feat on finesse.

Thanks.

[MrCow]

Weapon Finesse works with unarmed combat.

[Aspenor]

Yes, weapon finesse works with unarmed attacks.

[Riekan]

Thanks.

[feynman]

I'm sure this has been asked and answered, but I couldn't find it in a timely fashion...

Does the Weapon Finesse feat work with unarmed combat? I know it will work with Kamas, but not QS, so I'm trying to decide which weapon set to go with. I haven't rolled yet and am leaning towards a character with more dex than str for AC (but not by much since I want to be able to actually do damage also, probably 14 str 16 dex to start. Haven't decided level ups yet). Will end up with about 22 str and probably around 26 dex so weapon finesse would be good for Kamas and hopefully unarmed. If it doesn't work that way, I might have to rethink my starting stats and not waste the feat on finesse.

Thanks.

As they said, finesse works with unarmed, but IMHO this is the worst way to build your monk; your DPS, already hindered by class, will be further reduced by using the lowest damage output option available to us (handwraps), and then again by a low strength. Save the feat and balance your dex and str, use kamas and staves, and you will do much better.

[Brandiwyne]

As they said, finesse works with unarmed, but IMHO this is the worst way to build your monk; your DPS, already hindered by class, will be further reduced by using the lowest damage output option available to us (handwraps), and then again by a low strength. Save the feat and balance your dex and str, use kamas and staves, and you will do much better.

One could argue that Quivering Palm is the single-highest DPS attack available to monks, and can only be used with unarmed attacks.

Finesse build are perfectly viable at end-game content, provided one does not neglect strength entirely when building one.

That said, as with any class, there are several ways to build an effective monk; choose a method that fits your playstyle, and you'll be fine.

[feynman]

One could argue that Quivering Palm is the single-highest DPS attack available to monks, and can only be used with unarmed attacks.

Vorpal.

Finesse build are perfectly viable at end-game content, provided one does not neglect strength entirely when building one.

QFT (why I said balance).

That said, as with any class, there are several ways to build an effective monk; choose a method that fits your playstyle, and you'll be fine.

Oh, sure, but it's hard to argue that, for raw (read: usable on bosses) DPS, unarmed is not the worst option; 2-handed attack speed with 1-handed damage, mitigated only by 2 fairly situational abilities. I'm not saying to never use them (I have half a hot-bar of handwraps; try saying that 3 times fast), but they aren't weapons that I pull out on a regular basis.

[Brandiwyne]

Vorpal only has a 5% chance to hit. Quivering palm has better odds, provided the build has the wisdom to support it.

I can not argue the point against bosses, as current conditions with handwrap functionality and availability does dictate that there are often better options for DPS; if handwraps are ever fixed so transmuting works, and/or greater bane handwraps are brought into existence, this may change.

[feynman]

Vorpal only has a 5% chance to hit. Quivering palm has better odds, provided the build has the wisdom to support it.

Sure, but I can swing that vorpal a lot more than 20 times as fast as you can use quivering palm

I can not argue the point against bosses, as current conditions with handwrap functionality and availability does dictate that there are often better options for DPS; if handwraps are ever fixed so transmuting works, and/or greater bane handwraps are brought into existence, this may change.

Even then, and assuming the level cap goes to 20:

Handwraps: 2d10 + 5 (weapon enhancement) + 8 str (just to pick a number) +5 (Power Attack) = 20-38 damage (20-34 at level 16)

Staff: 1d6 + 5 +12 str + 10 PA = 28-33

Kamas: 1d6 + 5 + 8 str + 5 PA = 19-24 (but much faster)

And this gets even worse as you increase str or use green steel weapons, and TWF gets more out of effects.

I would hope that there are plans to give unarmed either extra attacks via TWF, or an extra str and/or PA bonus like 2-handers; the transmuting and bane are needed, too, but less so than the basic dynamic change.