To splash or not

[sorenkb]

If I spalsh wiz or sorcerer will the UMD be an automatic benfit. Is it worth it? I always get a boat load of wands I can't use.

[Impaqt]

No UMD.

Wands can be used by Arcanes Natively. 1 Level of Wizard give you access to all Wizard Wands.

[Lymnus]

1 level of sorcerer would probably do you better, because charisma synergizes between clerics and sorcerers.

Remember that you get 100% with wands (Repair and Stoneskin wands are the two worth noting most...), but you do not get 100% with scrolls. And, on top of that, scrolls are vulnerable to ASF (Arcane Spell Failure).

Just some things to think about.

[sorenkb]

Thanks. The reason for really wanting to do it is that often I have a warforge tank in my party whom I am always hiding behind while I heal. The prob is that I can't heal him/her effectively. As a ceric that works a support role often I wanted the ability to use the repair wands. Will the splash effect my ability to use Heavy Armor though?

[Uska]

Thanks. The reason for really wanting to do it is that often I have a warforge tank in my party whom I am always hiding behind while I heal. The prob is that I can't heal him/her effectively. As a ceric that works a support role often I wanted the ability to use the repair wands. Will the splash effect my ability to use Heavy Armor though?

Not for wand use you will be able to use whatever arcane wand you want without worry.

[Lymnus]

Well, if your cleric takes the feat "Empower Healing Spell" in their career, they can empower the Heal spell, which is a more efficient heal spell than tapping a repair serious wand. What you get by going one level of sorcerer is versatility. You might even gain more SP if you have a high enough charisma.

Now, what you lose is some of your offensive casting abilities. You you suffer a -1 to Spell Penetration checks (versus a pure cleric), and lose a level 8 spell slot or and a level 7 slot (which, truly, isn't a big deal seeing the level 8 spells leave much to be desired).

Wands don't suffer ASF. Scrolls suffer ASF. And the spell you'd gain from the wizard/sorcerer class would suffer ASF.

[Sue_Dark]

You WILL gain SP, regardless of CHA. However, I'd suggest defensive or no-save spells since you have to choose two. Also, ASF% does not affect wands at all, so you can whip a wand till your arm falls off. Not knowing what level you presently are, meta-magics might be more effective than wanding, but will burn your sp faster... of course.

UMD wouldnt be useful to worry about as a splash additive, it's not a class skill for Sorc.

I just logged onto an alt server and made a dorf sorc with 6 CHA, 180 SP at L1 (extend as feat). Now that includes the starting feat boost, in the character planner it looks like 6 CHA gets you ~80 SP. If you have higher, thats a plus.

[Lymnus]

Remember, since you made a level 1 sorcerer, that character gained the "Magical Training" feat. That may be why you're gaining SP.

[richieelias27]

...
Now, what you lose is some of your offensive casting abilities. All of your DCs are reduced by one, concerning cleric spells. Then, you suffer a -1 to Spell Penetration checks (versus a pure cleric), and lose a level 8 spell slot or two (which, truly, isn't a big deal seeing the level 8 spells leave much to be desired).
...

The only part of the above statement that is true is the -1 to spell penetration check. Your spell DC is dependant on your SPELL level not your CASTER level. Also one splash level of wiz or sorc still allows you to use level 8 spells at 16. You lose exactly one level 8 spell slot and one level 7 spell slot for 1 splash level.

[Allistair]

1 level of sorcerer would probably do you better, because charisma synergizes between clerics and sorcerers.

Remember that you get 100% with wands (Repair and Stoneskin wands are the two worth noting most...), but you do not get 100% with scrolls. And, on top of that, scrolls are vulnerable to ASF (Arcane Spell Failure).

Just some things to think about.

This is true, but keep in mind that one level of Wizard also gives you a "FREE" Feat.

[Lymnus]

This is true, but keep in mind that one level of Wizard also gives you a "FREE" Feat.

Yes, you're absolutely correct. But, typically, clerics don't invest too many points into intelligence. Usually, clerics will assign points into concentration, balance, and/or jump. And, of course, some do UMD. Some are rogue clerics. But, those are seperate cases.

The primary bonus of going wizard is that bonus feat, which typically is a metamagic feat. The reason I stated that sorcerer may be better is because of the fact you'll gain more SP than a Cleric/Wizard, and most builds won't miss that extra metamagic.

Clerics tend not to spend too many points into intelligence, because skills are of limited use to clerics. Most use balance, jump, and/or concentration. So, clerics usually leave intelligence at an 8 or 10 (concerning Drow, seeing they have a +2 intelligence modifer). The only way clerics increase their intelligence is with the stormreaver's napkin, which leaves intelligence at a 14/16.

However, many clerics invest into charisma. Healbots, in particular, tend to have a 14 or 16 charisma at creation (for extra DVs). They may also invest in cleric's charisma, raising it to a 16/18, then investing in a +6 item. This raises a cleric's charisma to 22/24. Of course, that's without considering any tomes on either's side.

Sorcerers already have a higher base SP than wizards, and the fact clerics invest into charisma already increases the amount of SP. So, the question is, what's worth more: SP, or a bonus feat? (And, of course, that answer varies build-to-build).

[Lymnus]

The only part of the above statement that is true is the -1 to spell penetration check. Your spell DC is dependant on your SPELL level not your CASTER level. Also one splash level of wiz or sorc still allows you to use level 8 spells at 16. You lose exactly one level 8 spell slot and one level 7 spell slot for 1 splash level.

I'm quite sure it's dependent on both, sir. I think the calculation is 10+Spell Level+Caster Level+Stat Mod.
But, if it's different than that, it's my mistake.

[sorenkb]

I think I am gonna try sorcerer after reading all the various posts. I haven't done it yet and last night I ran Graverobber in House J. 1 minute in and half the party is dead from the sonic trap. I followed a human ranger and warforged around burning through heal wands just trying to find a shrine (we never did). All the time I am wishing I could use the repair moderate wounds wand in my pack. The warforged was the only one that stayed alive while the rest of us had to eventually recall out and come back to finish. After that I am convinced that I need to be able to effectively heal all the warforged that my squishy cleric hides behind.

[Stravkos]

I'm quite sure it's dependent on both, sir. I think the calculation is 10+Spell Level+Caster Level+Stat Mod.
But, if it's different than that, it's my mistake.

It's actually 10+spell level+stat mod. Caster level has no effect on save DC's.

[DaveyCrockett]

EDIT - reading comprehension FTW

[richieelias27]

Yep, caster level has nothing to do with Spell DC. The only time you see an incidental DC decrease with level splashing is from use of heighten and a lack of ability to cast max level spells.

[yahaa]

I could be wrong, but one major benefit of splashing 1 level of sorc would be the double ammount of sp's from items?? Meaning wiz 6 would that be 300 sp instead of the pure clerics 150?? Just food for thought, not sure if my thinking is correct on this one though.....

[iruka41]

I could be wrong, but one major benefit of splashing 1 level of sorc would be the double ammount of sp's from items?? Meaning wiz 6 would that be 300 sp instead of the pure clerics 150?? Just food for thought, not sure if my thinking is correct on this one though.....

You don't get double with just 1 level splash. Instead you get x(1 + 1/16). It depends on the splash ratio.

[BlackSteel]

if you can tough it out until you get your Heal spell you'll be fine fixing warforge. I can probably count the number of clerics that I've met on one hand that still use wands after Gianthold. (lvl13+) An empowered Heal is more than enough for even a wf barb. And a scroll beats out a wand for hp/time, unless you choose to use both.

[Lymnus]

Yep, caster level has nothing to do with Spell DC. The only time you see an incidental DC decrease with level splashing is from use of heighten and a lack of ability to cast max level spells.

That's probably where I was confused, since I tend to leave heighten on.
Thanks for the correction, guys. I'll edit the previous post just for other guys.