Shroud 5: Helpful Hint

[Renegade66]

At this risk of appearing to brag, I'd like to offer a helpful hint for Clerics in Phase 5 of The Shroud.

In almost every Shroud run I'm in, I'm seeing as many as 3 clerics blowing through their entire mana bar in a minute or so trying to heal the group in Phase 5. The melees then need to backoff while Clerics refill which to me is an annoying waste of time.

I have a technique that has worked well for me and thought I'd share it here.

1) Position Pit Fiend near the east side of the altar area.
2) Mass heal and select one tank.
3) Continuously run back and forth over the right corner of the Southeast pool, so you get a double mana hit.
4) Have everything turned on. I use Quicken, Empower Healing, Maximize and Empower.
5) When the group health gets to about 60% or so, cast a single Mass Cure Moderate Wounds. It will typically heal the group to 100%.
6) Continue working the pool non-stop with mass cure mods thrown in as needed. If the group is taking a lot of dmg then throw an occassional Mass Cure Light.

I'd say 9 of 10 times, I'm able to solo heal through completion and have mana left. Certainly a rare example, but just the other day, I solo healed and when the Pit Fiend died, I was at 100% mana. Meaning, I was able to heal and keep my mana bar topped off by working the pool.

Just a helpful hint from your Uncle Ren.

[mehlinda]

I do this with jestah all the time.. it works great.. i have enlarge as well so i can use the far pools while another clic does it near the altar if needed.. I have only had a full bar once at the end,, but i have solo cleric'd the shroud at least 6 times and this is always a handy way to do it...sure saves scrolls

[Beherit_Baphomar]

People need this explained to them?

Interesting...

[Bunker]

Is it possible to Solo Cleric the Shroud? Sure it is.

I think that there are a lot of factors to keeping the melee crowd on the Fiend in part 5 and solo healing. Some within the control of the Cleric and some not.

Out of control:
1. Melee that get hit less require less healing.
2. Melee that are unaffected by fire (ie evasion, fire resist/prot, fire immune/absorb items) require less healing
3. The faster you kill the Fiend, the less healing needed over time.

In control:
1. Is your cleric enhancements and feats geared toward healing?
2. Metamagics? Everyone has different preferrance with metamagics. (personally, i dont' have many on. Spells cost less, and if they are potnet enough to start, you don't have to cast faster and stronger)
3. Ability to multitask thru the spell/scroll/spell/scroll method to beat the cooldown timers.
4. Using pools while doing your healing.

I dont' think it is bragging. I have been witness to clerics that said they could handle it themselves and showed the total opposite. I too have also said the words "no problem, i have it handled" while showing a less then A+ effort at times. But with the proper reciept of those above notes and Bodak's comments, clerics will be able to find the process that works best for them.

People need this explained to them?

Interesting...

Nothing wrong with explaining. Share the knowledge. It is what they do with the knowledge after obtained.

[liamfrancais]

Good job. I think as a cleric (I have one and she is level 11not quite shroud worthy yet ) I would have a hard time running back and forth and casting. I applaud your melee for keeping Artichokes in one spot that can be a challenge in it's on right.

[juniorpfactors]

At this risk of appearing to brag, I'd like to offer a helpful hint for Clerics in Phase 5 of The Shroud.

In almost every Shroud run I'm in, I'm seeing as many as 3 clerics blowing through their entire mana bar in a minute or so trying to heal the group in Phase 5. The melees then need to backoff while Clerics refill which to me is an annoying waste of time.

I have a technique that has worked well for me and thought I'd share it here.

1) Position Pit Fiend near the east side of the altar area.
2) Mass heal and select one tank.
3) Continuously run back and forth over the right corner of the Southeast pool, so you get a double mana hit.
4) Have everything turned on. I use Quicken, Empower Healing, Maximize and Empower.
5) When the group health gets to about 60% or so, cast a single Mass Cure Moderate Wounds. It will typically heal the group to 100%.
6) Continue working the pool non-stop with mass cure mods thrown in as needed. If the group is taking a lot of dmg then throw an occassional Mass Cure Light.

I'd say 9 of 10 times, I'm able to solo heal through completion and have mana left. Certainly a rare example, but just the other day, I solo healed and when the Pit Fiend died, I was at 100% mana. Meaning, I was able to heal and keep my mana bar topped off by working the pool.

Just a helpful hint from your Uncle Ren.

are there clerics that do it some other way?

good summary, but this is a very tame raid now, it has been scaled down to reaver loot run, only thing left out...is if your the TANK in there and getting the MASS cures targeted on you ...dont be That guy who runs out...it causes DEATHS hang in there until the cleric tells you to back out

jrp

[Angelus_dead]

are there clerics that do it some other way?

Yes. There are clerics so confident in their team's power that they never bother trying to refill.

If their confidence was misplaced, then it's possible they'd run into trouble later. (If that happens, the clerics normally drink a mana potion rather than admit they misjudged)

[juniorpfactors]

Yes. There are clerics so confident in their team's power that they never bother trying to refill.

If their confidence was misplaced, then it's possible they'd run into trouble later. (If that happens, the clerics normally drink a mana potion rather than admit they misjudged)

that or they simply cant handle running in and out of a pool?? lol and touching one mass heal button ?

jrp

[Renegade66]

I'm consistently surprised at how poorly this "should be mundane by now" quest is healed. Yesterday, a cleric took over and darn near wiped the group. I asked what metas do you have turned on, she said "none. I was told to turn those off." Next run, the clerics are just standing outside the pool casting individual cures and heals until their mana disappeared a quick 30 seconds later. I still see consistent over healing by clerics and double up healing by multiple clerics. Rampant enough that I thought a simple to follow strat would be appreciated by those with less experience healing this raid.

[juniorpfactors]

for sure, i just wish those noobs would read the forums

jrp

[Memnir]

for sure, i just wish those noobs would read the forums

jrp

I think that is a problem with the game, and with life in general. Those who most need the help are generally the ones who won't seek it out. They think they are doing "just fine", but when they fail they fail big... and take others down with them.

[Bunker]

I'm consistently surprised at how poorly this "should be mundane by now" quest is healed. Yesterday, a cleric took over and darn near wiped the group. I asked what metas do you have turned on, she said "none. I was told to turn those off." Next run, the clerics are just standing outside the pool casting individual cures and heals until their mana disappeared a quick 30 seconds later. I still see consistent over healing by clerics and double up healing by multiple clerics. Rampant enough that I thought a simple to follow strat would be appreciated by those with less experience healing this raid.

Every players has thier style. I will turn on/off my Metas during the process and heal faster/slower as I see fit. Does that mean nobody dies on my watch? Sometimes I let a few go. Usually in part 5 more then part 4.

Speaking of double healing; Some clerics have a hard time letting thier fellow healers in the group do thier part. And remember, as a cleric, if someone dies it looks poorly on us, so that cleric that is suppose to hold off till the second round, might throw out a bunch of Mass Heals out of turn for fear of looking bad. Now when it is actually his/her turn, and has no SP, he/she still looks bad, but it didn't occur till just then. Practice makes perfect.

Shoot, between Jrp, Renegade and myself, we 3 represent at least 100 times completing the shroud on just our clerics (if not more). So we are not exactly a good spokesperson for the casual gamer. Don't forget that because even though the Shroud has been available for some months now, we have new players joining in our groups every day.

that or they simply cant handle running in and out of a pool?? lol and touching one mass heal button ?

jrp

for sure, i just wish those noobs would read the forums

jrp

That is right Jrp, keep "lol" and pointing out the noobs, that always helps.

Remember that there really isn't any other quest where clerics practice the art of running back and forth regenerating SP while healing 3-8 melees. Some players won't understand that being within the Wingspan of Harry will make them susceptible to attacks thus potencially breaking concentration if quicken is not on. These and many other tidbits can be spoken of all the time, but only mastered thru experience.

Remember, you said and I quote "aka you are the free legal guy"

........and I'm watching

I think that is a problem with the game, and with life in general. Those who most need the help are generally the ones who won't seek it out. They think they are doing "just fine", but when they fail they fail big... and take others down with them.

Perhaps correct, but with the constant spam of words like "noobs", "muppets" and other degrading comments which seem to slip by the ddo code of conduct. It deters many newer players from seeking help for fear of being rejected, being added to rumored "blacklists" and being outcasted from future raids due to early slip-ups without time to learn.

[Angelus_dead]

Every players has thier style. I will turn on/off my Metas during the process and heal faster/slower as I see fit. Does that mean nobody dies on my watch? Sometimes I let a few go. Usually in part 5 more then part 4.

Why would you see fit to turn off the metamagic? What is the benefit?

[Bunker]

Why would you see fit to turn off the metamagic? What is the benefit?

I evaluate every situation as it comes up.

Example: I have 3 melees attacking in part 5. Hardly any dps that denotes killing Harry withing the first round of Bard songs. But.....They are also taking little to no dmg thru high ac and evasion. So I know that this last battle might take 10-15 minutes. (seems long but realistically possible) If I have quicken, maximize, enlarge, ect, ect...all running, I will be OOM way before then boss is dead.

Similar to casters that ALWAYS leave extend on. Why? Do you always need 32 minute buffs for quests that last 10?

Just like in VoD, metamagics get turned on/off thru out the entire quest. Probably saving myself about 300-400 SP when it is needed more towards the end during the last orthons and bats. Now if I noticed that I need a bit more healing/buffing/speed/ect....I will adjust accordingly.

[Angelus_dead]

Example: I have 3 melees attacking in part 5. Hardly any dps that denotes killing Harry withing the first round of Bard songs. But.....They are also taking little to no dmg thru high ac and evasion. So I know that this last battle might take 10-15 minutes. (seems long but realistically possible) If I have quicken, maximize, enlarge, ect, ect...all running, I will be OOM way before then boss is dead.

Enlarge? Is that a joke?

Anyway, your use of Maximize is far more important as a place of error. Maximize increases the efficiency of mass healing spells. Turning off Maximize does not make your mana last longer. It makes you run out faster.

[Bunker]

Enlarge? Is that a joke?

AD: The Enlarge remark was not to mock. If you check this post from above:

I do this with jestah all the time.. it works great.. i have enlarge as well so i can use the far pools while another clic does it near the altar if needed.. I have only had a full bar once at the end,, but i have solo cleric'd the shroud at least 6 times and this is always a handy way to do it...sure saves scrolls

Some players choose to use it. And my post was not to inform other players on how to play, yet to state how I play in response to your question.

Anyway, your use of Maximize is far more important as a place of error. Maximize increases the efficiency of mass healing spells. Turning off Maximize does not make your mana last longer. It makes you run out faster.

I'm a mathematical guy in RL, but when it comes to Video Games, I play based on "feel". I really never calculated out if I'm getting a better ratio of HP/SP based on which Metas are turned on/off. That may be something to check out. Remember that reducing SP thru feats and items for Metas like Enlarge and Maximize are not available for clerics. So without testing, I would be unable to agree with you.

[Angelus_dead]

I'm a mathematical guy in RL, but when it comes to Video Games, I play based on "feel". I really never calculated out if I'm getting a better ratio of HP/SP based on which Metas are turned on/off. That may be something to check out. Remember that reducing SP thru feats and items for Metas like Enlarge and Maximize are not available for clerics. So without testing, I would be unable to agree with you.

Maximize doubles the hitpoints of the spell and adds +25 to the spellpoint cost. Therefore, any spell that costs more than 25 sp becomes more efficient when Maximized. Mass Cure Light Wounds costs 30 sp.

[Pellegro]

Maximize doubles the hitpoints of the spell and adds +25 to the spellpoint cost. Therefore, any spell that costs more than 25 sp becomes more efficient when Maximized. Mass Cure Light Wounds costs 30 sp.

right. so how is using maximize an error? its only an error if you're overhealing wiht it on, but not with it off.

to figure that out, you'd have to figure otu how many people are taking how much healing ... hmm, maybe that would take some math?

[Ringos]

Maximize doubles the hitpoints of the spell and adds +25 to the spellpoint cost. Therefore, any spell that costs more than 25 sp becomes more efficient when Maximized. Mass Cure Light Wounds costs 30 sp.

Pretty small difference there. Agreed, there are times when you need to get off a big cure mass, but if a Cleric knows what they heal for, it's back to the 'feel' thing IMO. If you throw in the possiblity for criting on a mass cure spell, you could end up 'wasting' SP...slight chance but possible. Now, if you're running with Quicken on, it is obviously cheaper to use Maximize. It all depends how you are running ATM if it's worth it or not. Only the player in the situation knows the scenario, so it all comes back to the 'feel' for it again. General comment of course.

[Bunker]

Maximize doubles the hitpoints of the spell and adds +25 to the spellpoint cost. Therefore, any spell that costs more than 25 sp becomes more efficient when Maximized. Mass Cure Light Wounds costs 30 sp.

Yup. That is exactly how Maximize works. 100% in agreement with the above statement.

Example: (Keep in mind this would apply to everyone in range of the Mass Cure but for sake of numbers, only talking about 1 induvidual) To avoid waiting for cooldown timers as a cleric, most clerics alternate between at least 2 different cure/heal spells.

Melee Player "X" has 450 HP.
Player X is down to 250 HP (and needs 200 HP to be back to full)
Cleric "Y" alternates between cure light and cure mod with Maximize Meta on.
If Y can do 125 hp with cure light mass "since maximize doubles the output"
X now has 375 HP
Y quickly follows up with cure mod mass doing 200 hp, X is now at Full Health.

At that last cure, X only needed 75 hp to be at full health, but the spell did 200. (wasting 62.5% of the spell)
If Maximize cost 25 and cure mod mass cost 35, then you are getting a better ratio as you said. But if you are wasting 62% of that spell, then maximize actually cost you more in the long run.