Shroud healing

[Thrudh]

Someone posted in another thread that he was the only cleric in a Shroud run... Part 4 took 3 rounds... The group had lots of melee (i.e. it wasn't an all-ranged group) and he was using mass cures... yet he didn't run out of SP...

How did he do it? What can I do differently?

My experience with the Shroud has been 2-3 clerics... If the party has a lot of melee, one cleric mass-cures the first round, second cleric mass-cures the second round, third cleric mass-cures the third round... and hopefully the pit fiend is dead by then...

The real trouble for me is... when it's my turn to mass-cure, I usually end up going through 80% of my SP in that one round... Mass cures seem very inefficient to me... If you have a lot of high DPS melee, yes it's the best way... but if you have a lot of low-DPS melee and the party needs that 4th round, we're usually almost out of SP at that point...

I don't think it's just me... Usually the other two clerics with me are down to 20% SP too after THEIR round of mass cures.

I'm much more comfortable with being responsible for 2 people, and keeping those two people up with the heal spell and heal scrolls (with occasional spot healing of others)... I can handle that for 4,5 rounds easy... It seems more efficient to me, since heals heal more damage for less SP cost. I can let them go down farther, and it's easy to alternate with scrolls...

So what can I do differently to be a more efficient mass cure healer?

[soupertc]

I like taking care of 2 tanks myself....but sometimes the I don't got the choice. The thing with mass heals are people tend to spam em. I tend to let people get a little low and hit the lowest one with a heal scroll if need be. It just takes practice....if it's only 4 tanks better to spot heal.....anymore mass heals. Just don't be scared to let people get a little low.


a perfect example I almost forgot to mention.....I took my cleric in there when he was 13th lvl. Had a 16th lvl cleric with us too. In part 4 I had mana left he did too.....after he had to drink a mana pot. People tend to get freaked out I think and just start mashing buttons...ok sorry done now. hope it makes sense.

[GoldyGopher]

In an all guild run I have been the only cleric in the party and yes we succeeded easily, and I didn’t drink a single pot.
In a PUG group been the only cleric after the other cleric DC’d in part 2 and we almost succeeded (had ‘Arry down to a sliver when weird things started happening in part 5).

Anyways…..

It’s all about Mana Conservation, well almost all about.
First when you are short a cleric that spot has to be replaced with something that is going to help the party. As I say more DPS is always good thing, the more DPS the less healing you have to do. Those not doing DPS need to be more supporting (heal scrolls, cure spells, remove disease wands, healing up those not in the fight, and most importantly resurrection of the dead characters.
All members of the party have to be self sufficient, especially in down moments. In that slight pause it is a god time to drink that Cure Serious Pot or two if you down HP.
AC is your friend, the fewer hits you take the fewer mana points I have to spend to heal you up. Now I understand that our raged barabarian might be at 36 AC and the Tanks at 72. That allows me to concentrate on the Barbarian (a scroll here and there, a heal spell and a couple of mass heals.)
Finally it is truly all about mana conservation.

The sad part about mana conservation is knowing which characters to let die as the battle progress. When I finally came to terms with that morale issue, you can’t save everyone, our groups became more successful as a whole.

[Blazer]

So what can I do differently to be a more efficient mass cure healer?

Keep in mind that when people say they've been solo cleric in Shroud, they are seldom the solo healer. Two totally different things. I've been the only cleric in the Shroud before, but was far from the solo healer. The bard chipped in, rogue(s) would pop a Heal scroll on themselves/others, etc...you get the picture.

Moving on...Emp Healing is great for mass healing. Coupled with the enhancements (and now the necklace from the Hound raid) you can get your Emp Healing down to 4 extra SP for a 50% increase. Very nice. Factor in the Reaver gloves and/or some Prayer of Life/Incredible Prayer of Life enhancements and you can see crits on up to 18% of your heals/cures for as much as 2.5x more (iirc, might be only 2.25x more). All of these in some combination lead to mass healing being very effective and efficient.

That said, if you PUG the shroud a lot and you don't know the people in the raid, yeah, planning for the worst is a safe bet. However, if you can at least hook up with some of the better people on a more regular basis, it will be far easier for you, I'm sure.

What server are you on?

[maddmatt70]

Been the solo healer 6 or so times..

[Angelus_dead]

The real trouble for me is... when it's my turn to mass-cure, I usually end up going through 80% of my SP in that one round... Mass cures seem very inefficient to me... If you have a lot of high DPS melee, yes it's the best way... but if you have a lot of low-DPS melee and the party needs that 4th round, we're usually almost out of SP at that point...

Well, I don't know what you're doing wrong. The natural guess is that you're wasting mana on overheals.

With the typical +40% devotion enhancment and +50% devo item, Heal provides 285 hp for 35 sp = 8.14 hpm, and MCMW provides 47 hp / 35 sp = 1.35 hpm. 8.14 / 1.35 = 6.02, so MCMW gives you more hitpoints per spellpoint if you've got more than 6 wounded characters within healing range.

Adding Maximize or Empower increases the advantage of MCMW, and reduces the number of players needed for it to break even. If you had all three such metamagics going you'd only need 4 attackers for it to be more efficient, although in that case the healing is so high that a lot of it is wasted unless the tanks have very high hp totals.

[Borror0]

What server are you on?

He's on Thelanis.

[shane1122]

Someone posted in another thread that he was the only cleric in a Shroud run... Part 4 took 3 rounds... The group had lots of melee (i.e. it wasn't an all-ranged group) and he was using mass cures... yet he didn't run out of SP...

This should be the norm. Some good advice above, also...

1) Spell points. A lvl 16 cleric should be in the 1700-1800 range. I am amazed at the number of lvl 16 clerics out there that have far, far less.
2) Turn on empowered healing and mass heal away. The Hound Necklace helps a bit to conserve SP. Spot heal between mass heals with scrolls of Heal.
3) Do not try to keep everyone at 100% HP. It is a waste of SP. Keep everyone at 75-80% so "bleed over" (such as on a crit) healing on is not just wasted. A good tank knows what you are doing and is still comfortable with 75-80% of their HP.
4) Have the proper equipment, mainly Sup Pot/Dev and Reaver gloves, and enhancements so that you are mainly casting low level healing spells, but to impressive effect.
5) Avoid doomed PUGs. You know, the one with four sorcs, three rogues, and four monks... Shroud PUGs need serious DPS. That means hard hitting Barbs/Palis/Rangers/Fighters. Although there are some exceptions, that 7/6/3 Pali/Ranger/Sorc will eat more resources than they are worth in the Shroud.

-Shane

[Lee4416]

solo cleric - interesting thought...


i have been solo cleric in parts 4&5 but not by choice (i generally suck as a cleric - i like playing red bar roulette) when my companion went LD and never came back... but as people have pointed out:

1. you are rarely alone - bards/sorc's/rogues all help
2. more DPS = less time where healing is required

my only thoughts would be...

1. self perservation (i 'invested' in firesheild cloak and found some dusty boots in the desert that help me survive to heal others)

2. look at the red bars and think - do i need a maximised CMSW here when the Barb is 5% down and the rogue is 30% down. with a potency in my off hand and a scroll in my main hand - i tend to keep the barb in my focus for mass heals and just run MCLW... scroll MCMW which will replace probably 80'ish hp's - if more dmg is being taken then i will step it up a tad... basically heal them if they need it.

3. i think that having individual healing designated for rounds is inviting disaster... roll a 1 and your next cleric with the most SP's is gone and things then get expensive... granted that this won't happen every run but its not the way that i would like to run...

4. trust in your companions... the casters will cast haste/displacement and CC the between round mobs... the bards will sing to increase group DPS and will assist with heals or DPS and the melee classes will hit 'arry with big pointy things until he goes away...

[maddmatt70]

He's on Thelanis.

You can tell actually. Whenever somebody says I focus heal on the shroud you know they are not on Khyber. No guild or shroud raid group employs that method except on elite on Khyber. Usually when somebody says they focus heal on the shroud at all or they even consider it an option the first guess is they play on Thelanis. Not sure why Thelanis evolved that way..

[maddmatt70]

solo cleric - interesting thought...


i have been solo cleric in parts 4&5 but not by choice (i generally suck as a cleric - i like playing red bar roulette) when my companion went LD and never came back... but as people have pointed out:

1. you are rarely alone - bards/sorc's/rogues all help
2. more DPS = less time where healing is required

my only thoughts would be...

1. self perservation (i 'invested' in firesheild cloak and found some dusty boots in the desert that help me survive to heal others)

2. look at the red bars and think - do i need a maximised CMSW here when the Barb is 5% down and the rogue is 30% down. with a potency in my off hand and a scroll in my main hand - i tend to keep the barb in my focus for mass heals and just run MCLW... scroll MCMW which will replace probably 80'ish hp's - if more dmg is being taken then i will step it up a tad... basically heal them if they need it.

3. i think that having individual healing designated for rounds is inviting disaster... roll a 1 and your next cleric with the most SP's is gone and things then get expensive... granted that this won't happen every run but its not the way that i would like to run...

4. trust in your companions... the casters will cast haste/displacement and CC the between round mobs... the bards will sing to increase group DPS and will assist with heals or DPS and the melee classes will hit 'arry with big pointy things until he goes away...

The thing is it is really not that hard. For part 4 you just make sure you fire protect yourself and keep yourself fully healed and do the mass heals. On part 4 you use scrolls when the melee fights the teleporting devils and use mostly mana when they fight the pit fiend. On part five I will turn on quicken when they fight the lieutenants just to make sure I don't die/get spells off. Then have them fight close to one of the pools when they fight the pit fiend and you get mana when you heal them. I enjoy it now more then healing with another cleric because I actually have to pay attention and the quest goes faster because you can add another dps melee instead of a cleric.

[Lee4416]

I am in awe of Jackiety mate - the few times that i have been lucky enough to run with you things have been smooth as...


i might give that solo cleric a try - but i hate being responible... i spend a lot of time trying to avoid responsibility...

[Borror0]

You can tell actually. Whenever somebody says I focus heal on the shroud you know they are not on Khyber. No guild or shroud raid group employs that method except on elite on Khyber. Usually when somebody says they focus heal on the shroud at all or they even consider it an option the first guess is they play on Thelanis. Not sure why Thelanis evolved that way..

Ok, so your server is more uber than ours?

[maddmatt70]

Ok, so your server is more uber than ours?

Never said that. Just Thelanis favored the focus healing technique more then the khyber. Was just a comment on how things evolve differently in different environs.

[maddmatt70]

I am in awe of Jackiety mate - the few times that i have been lucky enough to run with you things have been smooth as...

Thank you for the compliment. Leveling up a second cleric JacquieJ, lol. The Prophets of the New Republic guild leader has 3 clerics so I am a little bit behind and I needed to catch up a bit.. .

[Borror0]

Never said that. Just Thelanis favored the focus healing technique more then the khyber. Was just a comment on how things evolve differently in different environs.

Well, I can say the only times are consider it is when we have a ranged heavy party and a lot of clerics. That mans a lot of rangers who rather range and 3 clerics or 2 clerics and an healing bard. I know a lot of clerics can focus heal two players at the same time easily so...

I remember once, we has 1 sorc, 1 healing bard, 3 clerics, my intimitank, a paladin, 1 barbarian and the rest was all rnaged characters (either ranged rogues or rangers). I went with focused healing because the DPS was low and we had plenty of clerics. It went fine. I ten to pick any class and just go with it. I could get faster runs by being pickier about the classes that I bring but... it goes smooth all the time, so I don't care. 10 minutes more or less isn't really going to matter so much at the end of the day.

[stockwizard5]

Never said that. Just Thelanis favored the focus healing technique more then the khyber. Was just a comment on how things evolve differently in different environs.

I think it is nothing more than the very first evening when we were figuring this raid out we had three melees and three clerics so we gave one to each. We also had no GS MIN IIs or +3 XGBs so Mass Healing 4/5/6 rounds was not so great.

Allot of people ran with us that first week and took that back with them. After a bit we decided that mass heals was preffered (especially as we re-capped/re-geared and our rogues/rangers got some HP) but by then the rest of the guilds had started running with what they learned the first week.

In a sense because our server is so raiding intensive - more people learned this raid early - and hence learned the first ideas as apposed to running for the first time weeks later when things became more refined. Since dedicated healing worked - and really still works if perhaps a round slower - many never changed.

Of course we ALL know that its South-East and ONLY South-East is correct and South-West is WRONG - VERY WRONG

[Pyromaniac]

If there's only 1 cleric and the party went 3 rounds on part 4 of the shroud....

-There may have been a lot of support healing toons (Sorcs/Bards/Rogues/UMDers)
-Maybe a lot of the group was ranging (and not high dps ranged)

If there were 8-10 melees in there and it took 3 rounds....seems to be way too many rounds. So there were probably secondary healers which can do a lot of healing. Or some of the melees died in that run. A lot easier to extend your healing if you're only healing 1-2 melees.

I'm also assuming the cleric was alternating scrolls and mana. Even mass healing a round on my cleric I'm probably at 40%+ mana after 1 round if there's decently high hp toons (or very good AC toons) in there.

[arcticwolf666]

Spell points. A lvl 16 cleric should be in the 1700-1800 range. I am amazed at the number of lvl 16 clerics out there that have far, far less.

Now, I maxed Wisdom throughout creation, I got the totemic lavalier (spelling), and I am sitting at 1490. How the $%^& do people get up so **** high. If it is crafting, then I have no clue about it. I have even heard of sorcs with 2500 sp. My 15 is sitting at 1650. What the heck am I doing wrong???? Maxed Primary stat the whole way through on all toons. The only raids I can do is the Reaver because Pugging for other Raids/flagging is almost impossible lol.

[Laith]

Now, I maxed Wisdom throughout creation, I got the totemic lavalier (spelling), and I am sitting at 1490. How the $%^& do people get up so **** high. If it is crafting, then I have no clue about it.

it's crafting.