Main tank AC

[Leyoni]

There was an earlier thread on max AC. In that thread was this:

For an intimidate build, a solid place to start off of a pure fighter platform is 61 AC unbuffed, nondispellable, unboosted. Multiclass builds splashed with paladin can get higher, but the basic principle is the same.

10 Base
13 +5 MFP
6 Dex bonus (22 DEX, Fighter Armor Mastery III enhancement)
5 Protection
6 Dodge (1 feat, 3 Chattering Ring, 2 Chaosgarde)
4 Insight (Shroud Item)
5 CE
9 +5 MTS (Fighter Tower Shield Mastery II enhancement)
3 Natural (Seal of the Earth)

Off of this platform you can reach 73 with Haste, Inspire Heroics, a full barkskin, and a pally aura.

For a pure DPS fighter, I would say 47, even a point or two lower, is pretty reasonable (basically just dropping the +5 MTS and CE from the above).

My question is: What crafted items would a sword & board fighter have that would boost AC?

Along with that question, I have another: What class splashes will boost a sword & board fighter's AC? I understand the Paladin splash, but I'm not very familiar with Monk splashes.

Lastly, for this all to work and still have a reasonably capable DPS output I'm guessing that you need to start with a minimum of 14 DEX (13 now that we can get +3 tomes), max STR (or close to it), a minimum of 11 INT (again, 10 with +3 tomes), and the balance of your starting build points tossed into CON. Would that be accurate? Is it different if you take a monk splash (don't you want some WIS?)?

Oh, really last, does it help to be halfling for the innate +1?

Thx

[Uproar]

Monk splashes can boosts A/C if your wisdom is +1 or better. Monks get an A/C boost of 1 per wisdom bonus. You do not need to be centered to get this bonus.

[Leyoni]

Thx. So a L1 monk splash is all that is ever needed as long as you are getting + to WIS. And, since items are around a starting WIS of 8 with a +2 tome and +6 item gives as much as a +3 AC boost.

That means the 61 jumps to 64 AC just by taking the AC boost granted by the L1 monk splash.

Is that correct?

[Korvek]

Thx. So a L1 monk splash is all that is ever needed as long as you are getting + to WIS. And, since items are around a starting WIS of 8 with a +2 tome and +6 item gives as much as a +3 AC boost.

That means the 61 jumps to 64 AC just by taking the AC boost granted by the L1 monk splash.

Is that correct?

You can't wear armor and still get the wisdom bonus though.

[Thrudh]

Thx. So a L1 monk splash is all that is ever needed as long as you are getting + to WIS. And, since items are around a starting WIS of 8 with a +2 tome and +6 item gives as much as a +3 AC boost.

That means the 61 jumps to 64 AC just by taking the AC boost granted by the L1 monk splash.

Is that correct?

No, that doesn't work... because you don't get the armor boost if you're wearing armor, a shield, or encumbered...

So a monk splash will not work for a fighter wearing plate and/or using a shield...

Monk splash helps rangers/rogues or anyone else wearing robes and two weapon fighting...

[Borror0]

My question is: What crafted items would a sword & board fighter have that would boost AC?

Mineral II - You'll want that +4 AC as often as possible.

I'm guessing that you need to start with a minimum of 14 DEX (13 now that we can get +3 tomes)

The rule is "Enough Dex to fill whatever armor/shield you're going to wear/wield with whatever enhancement you'll get to raise the MDB."

max STR (or close to it)

15-16 Str, more than that is a waste. You could use it better elsewhere.

a minimum of 11 INT (again, 10 with +3 tomes)

Exact.

The balance of your starting build points tossed into CON.

I'd say, get at least 14 Con.

Oh, really last, does it help to be halfling for the innate +1?

The penalty to Intimidate hurts though. And if you don't have Intimidate, you're gimped!

Really, the bonus is nice... but not overwhelming. Otherraces are better for S&B tanks.

[Leyoni]

Ok, so that means a L1 monk splash doesn't help AC.

The better splash is L3 paladin then for a +2 to AC (including enhancements) and as a halfling for the automatic +1 for the net +3 AC boost. Is that right?

Was hoping these would stack to the Monk boost for a net +6 (taking the AC to 67) and then that I'd be able to add in some crafted items to jump over 70.

[Angelus_dead]

My question is: What crafted items would a sword & board fighter have that would boost AC?

As listed in your pasted AC breakdown, it's a weapon of +4 AC.

That's commonly something like
+5 Holy Acid Burst Transmuting Green Steel Khopesh of +4 AC (the Mineral II weapon)

Some players will choose Holy Shocking Burst Lightning Strike instead, but you can get +4 AC as the tier3 effect of any weapon.

[Leyoni]

Thanks for the heads up on intimidate for the halfling. I'd already figured you have to max out on that.

I'm assuming it is alright to go with starting CHA or close to it. Is that wrong?

[Leyoni]

As listed in your pasted AC breakdown, it's a weapon of +4 AC.

That's commonly something like
+5 Holy Acid Burst Transmuting Green Steel Khopesh of +4 AC (the Mineral II weapon)

Some players will choose Holy Shocking Burst Lightning Strike instead, but you can get +4 AC as the tier3 effect of any weapon.

Ah, didn't really catch that.

So when someone posts about an unbuffed AC above 61-64 that's probably just fantasy?

Is the gear list from the original quote wrong?

Thx again.

Edit: Or will the tier III stack with the mineral II for a net +8?

[Leyoni]

Monk splash helps rangers/rogues or anyone else wearing robes and two weapon fighting...

Do these hit the 61-64 AC range unbuffed (and not taking into account things like favored enemy enhancements, which are situational)?

[Leyoni]

And yet another question.

Does a stability item (useable by true neutral) stack with Shroud insight bonuses? Obviously that would cut out paladin splashes.

My vague recollection is that stability items are insight bonuses (meaning they wouldn't stack?).

[rimble]

Do these hit the 61-64 AC range unbuffed (and not taking into account things like favored enemy enhancements, which are situational)?

Since I have this readily available because I've been working on mine...Halfling 12 Ranger/3 Paladin/1 Monk, dubbed the Iron Monk in the Ranger forums (credit to whoever started that thread):

AC
10 Base
12 Dexterity
6 Wisdom
7 Armor Bracers AC 7
1 Alchemical
5 Protection
1 Dodge Feat
1 Two-Weapon Defense Feat
2 Tempest Enhancement
2 Paladin Aura
1 Halfling Size
5 Combat Expertise
5 Natural, Barkskin
----------------------------------
58 + 2 vs Favored Enemies

4 Dodge, Icy Raiment
4 Greensteel Insight
3 Chattering Ring
1 Armored Bracers AC 8
----------------------------------
70 +2 vs Favored Enemies

3 Maximum Paladin Aura
1 Haste Spell
4 Shield Spell
----------------------------------
78 + 2 vs Favored Enemies

None of those three classes provide Intimidate as a class skill though, and he's further penalized for being a Halfling...so I haven't bothered to raise Intimidate.

[debo]

The penalty to Intimidate hurts though. And if you don't have Intimidate, you're gimped!

Well.. at least that is better then extremely gimped.

Borro0 is seeing the light!

[Uproar]

I am sorry for my earlier comment implying armor did not matter. It does. I forgot that only uncentered due to weapons still gave A/C boost.
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php...ght=uncentered

[Borror0]

As listed in your pasted AC breakdown, it's a weapon of +4 AC.

That's commonly something like
+5 Holy Acid Burst Transmuting Green Steel Khopesh of +4 AC (the Mineral II weapon)

You forgot Slicing and Keen.

Well.. at least that is better then extremely gimped.

Borro0 is seeing the light!

Bah, gimped.. extremely gimped... we're talking about S&B anyway. We're "gimped" from the start compared to TWF.

[Sue_Dark]

Hmm... L8 Rogue/1 Ranger

+5 mith chain shirt
23 dex (havent added any +dex items yet)
+5 mith hvy shield
Dodge feat
+3 bark pots
Haste pots (situationally, usually to get there faster more than to increase AC)
+4 deflection Iron manacles
+1 protection cloak
+6 Imp Uncanny Dodge (situational again, emergency use mostly)

Note- no raid gear, no CE, none of these crazy things, not even a +dex item yet

Normal AC is around 39, 41 with pot bark (i have a +1 nat armor necklace). I have Daggertooth's belt waiting for him and multiple +6 Stat items beyond that. One day, the Devs will choose to fix the armor and shield alchemies, and who knows... I might just get LUCKY (read- SoE, CR, etc etc) when I start raiding him.

[EKKM]

Hmm... L8 Rogue/1 Ranger

+5 mith chain shirt
23 dex (havent added any +dex items yet)
+5 mith hvy shield
Dodge feat
+3 bark pots
Haste pots (situationally, usually to get there faster more than to increase AC)
+4 deflection Iron manacles
+1 protection cloak
+6 Imp Uncanny Dodge (situational again, emergency use mostly)

Note- no raid gear, no CE, none of these crazy things, not even a +dex item yet

Normal AC is around 39, 41 with pot bark (i have a +1 nat armor necklace). I have Daggertooth's belt waiting for him and multiple +6 Stat items beyond that. One day, the Devs will choose to fix the armor and shield alchemies, and who knows... I might just get LUCKY (read- SoE, CR, etc etc) when I start raiding him.

I think the +1 from the protection cloak is a deflection bonus so will not stack with the iron manacles which you indicate is also a deflection bonus

[Borror0]

+4 deflection Iron manacles
+1 protection cloak

These two do not stack.

[Blazer]

So when someone posts about an unbuffed AC above 61-64 that's probably just fantasy?

Is the gear list from the original quote wrong?

Thx again.

Edit: Or will the tier III stack with the mineral II for a net +8?

Keep in mind, when I posted that originally, the discussion was around a fighter platform primarily, a fighter with intimdate as well. There are other permutations that can achieve higher AC but not have intimidate (primarily the ultra high DEX ranger/monk builds you're seeing). Dexxan has a primarily pally build that sits at about 64-68ish unbuffed, due to CE, full (or nearly full) pally aura, as well as being dwarf (thus access to dwarven armor mastery).

The gear list you posted is not wrong, it's the exact items I'm wearing on my tank. Sometimes I wear the Seal of the Earth, sometimes I don't and just drink bark pots (or if I am getting barkskin from a ranger I won't wear it either).

Clarification on tier III and mineral II. They won't stack since they're the same thing (+4 insight bonus to AC). The Tier III is the tier when you get the +4 to AC. The type of weapon most people advocate building is mineral II (the double shard earth/positive to get transmuting) and they mean when you assemble that third tier, you take the +4 AC on that tier.