Puncturers?

[yabo]

Not sure if this is the right place, but, I was wondering 2 things: Price check, and viability of use on 2 items.

I have the following:

+1 Seeker Rapier of Puncturing (RR elves (umd16), +4 seeker, ML8)

+2 Keen Rapier of Puncturing (ML8, no RR)

My question is twofold. Are these worth anything? With a 15-20 (30%) Crit range, I would think this to be nearly as good as a WoP.

Let's say you hit a mob 10 times. With a WoP rapier, you'd hit 15% crits. Figure 3 point average, you have 14.5 con damage total.
With the keen rapier, you'd crit 3 times, for avg 3 points each, or 9 con damage total. Is this enough to increase it's value?

Now, I'm really not too sure how seeker works. I just know it increases crit chances. Is it substantial enough to keep/use/sell this? or just vendor it?

Any thoughts, or opinions would be appreciated. I may accept offers, too, but, I'd really like to see what to consider, first.

Thanks in advance!

[Docta_PoPo]

yea... i normally just vendor stuff like that but i consider anything i dont need junk...
except named items, +2 tomes and wops i pretty much vendor everything

[efreet5]

Sorry, but they're not worth much at all. You might be able to sell them on the ah for a little more than you could vendor them for. The keen one is a decent lowbee weapon, but at lvl 8 it's just faster to dps things, they don't have the astronomical amount of hps that higher lvl mobs do.

[Angelus_dead]

+2 Keen Rapier of Puncturing (ML8, no RR)

Keen puncturing is pretty good for barbarians (or many kinds of elf/drow characters)

[Samadhi]

I don't think the keen one is bad at all. There are still a few of us out there that have not switched to imp. crit pierce; and a keen rapier on average does more con damage the wounder (not even counting stunning blow and the like).

[iruka41]

Let's say you hit a mob 10 times. With a WoP rapier, you'd hit 15% crits. Figure 3 point average, you have 14.5 con damage total.
With the keen rapier, you'd crit 3 times, for avg 3 points each, or 9 con damage total.

Let's say you have Imp.Crit:Pierce. In your calculation (not precise but to complare fairly) W/P deals 19 CON damage total. That's about twice.

Or lets' say you use a simple wounding weapon, it's 10 CON total. That's just like your keen rapier.

Unless it's a barbarian, keen rapier is not much different than a single wounding weapon. (unless the mob has heavy DR)

[yabo]

I'm sure the seeker isn't *that* good (or very good at all, really... I'll prolly vendor it), but, by the math, the keen is capable of 2/3 of the con damage of a WoP. I wouldn't consider it a lowbie weapon despite it's lower ML. Granted you wouldn't use it at that level, but, higher levels this is a solid weapon that will definitely fill the void until you can afford the obscene 20-30mil that people are looking for on a WoP (granted I understand the rarity factor).

If I'm wrong on this, please help me to see why this is only moderately better than a standard weapon.

[iruka41]

I don't think the keen one is bad at all. There are still a few of us out there that have not switched to imp. crit pierce; and a keen rapier on average does more con damage the wounder (not even counting stunning blow and the like).

Well... let's talk about a situation with no bloodstone, enhancements, etc.

When you miss on a roll of 5 (which is often i guess), and in 20 swings,
Wounding weapon deals 15 CON damage.
Keen punturing rapier crits 6 times, but you gotta confirm it.
It deals 1d6 CON damage so lets say it's 3.5.
Among those 6 hits, only 75% confirms, which means 6 x 0.75 x 3.5 = 15.75 CON damage.

When you miss on 10,
Wounding does 10 CON damage,
Keen Puncturing does (6 x 0.5 x 3.5 = 10.5) CON damage.

When you miss on 1,
Wounding does 19,
K/P does (6 x 0.95 x 3.5 = 19.95)

You see, if not counting auto-crit situation, even with bloodstone, etc,
Wounding is better or same if your to-hit is good enough.
Maximum everage CON damage a K/P rapier does in 20 hits is 19.95.
If you can hit mobs with a roll of 2, there's not much difference.
If you don't have bloodstone or power crit feat or some enhancements,
K/P is not much different than a simple wounding weapon.
If you have such seeker option available and AND your to-hit is mid-low, THEN keen puncturing is better.

P.S. It's a whole different story when the mob has heavy DR. Some DEX-build will be much better using puncturings.

[Samadhi]

nm

[wamjratl1]

IMO they are both decent fill-in midbie weapons until you get something better (if you can use them). Otherwise, I think you could auction them and get a little more plat than you would at a broker/vendor. I would start them around the base price and put a buy out of a 1,000 or so plat more than that. They should sell.

[chewwook]

very nice midbie weapons, since w/p is ml10 unless a race restricted item. Use the seeker on one hand and it affects both, btw.
So use both of them!

[Slink]

dont listen to these silly ppl telling you that they are worthless....

Although im not from your server, i have a ranger and a twf build that dual wield puncturing rapiers, both lvl 16. Try dual wielding them and watch your kill count go berserk. They are not worth as much as a wounding of puncturing but nearly as effective IMO. Im not sure what class/lvls you have now but they are both highly effective if you can use them.

[Uska]

I dont think they are worthless if you didnt want to much I wouldnt mind buying the pair for my twf rogue.

[iruka41]

but, by the math, the keen is capable of 2/3 of the con damage of a WoP.

That statement has to have a 'if'.

If one doesn't have Imp.Crit:Pierce, that keen rapier will do about 2/3 of WoP, like you said.

But if one has the feat though, that keen one will do only half. (Cause WoP improves itself)

So it really depends on the build.

It is a far better weapon than a simple wounding weapon if one doesn't have Imp.Crit. but has some crit confirm bonuses.

Otherwise, not much.

So there's no 'in general' in this weapon. Conditions vary.

Keen/Puncturing + Seeker/Puncturing combo is really nice though. If used by someone w/o the imp.crit feat.

Dual Keen/Puncturing + Bloodstone/Mentau will be even better.

[chewwook]

That statement has to have a 'if'.

If one doesn't have Imp.Crit:Pierce, that keen rapier will do about 2/3 of WoP, like you said.

But if one has the feat though, that keen one will do only half. (Cause WoP improves itself)

So it really depends on the build.

It is a far better weapon than a simple wounding weapon if one doesn't have Imp.Crit. but has some crit confirm bonuses.

Otherwise, not much.

So there's no 'in general' in this weapon. Conditions vary.

Keen/Puncturing + Seeker/Puncturing combo is really nice though. If used by someone w/o the imp.crit feat.

Dual Keen/Puncturing + Bloodstone/Mentau will be even better.

I thought that keen didn't stack with improved critical... am I wrong about that? for someone with the feat, keen doesn't matter at all and adds nothing to teh weapon, but for someone without it, it adds a lot.

[wamjratl1]

I thought that keen didn't stack with improved critical... am I wrong about that? for someone with the feat, keen doesn't matter at all and adds nothing to teh weapon, but for someone without it, it adds a lot.

They don't stack. You guys just said the same thing pretty much. But holy **** can you imagine if they stacked!?!??!?! 12-20 crit range?!??!?!? or what if they stacked geometricly?!??!?!?!?! Crits on a 10 or better?!?!?!?!??!?!?!

[yabo]

They don't stack. You guys just said the same thing pretty much. But holy **** can you imagine if they stacked!?!??!?! 12-20 crit range?!??!?!? or what if they stacked geometricly?!??!?!?!?! Crits on a 10 or better?!?!?!?!??!?!?!

I'ma call bug, and hope they fix it so I can make money =)