suggestion: Levik AC bonus type

[bobbryan2]

Maybe, just maybe, it was set up as intended. Make a choice, make the best one that fits your build . I think the devs set this up as intended, but I might be wrong. Just because both have the name Levik doesn't necessarily mean they will stack. Just my 2 coppers. I think things are great except:

What are you talking about?

The chaosgardes aren't even part of the Levik set.

The idea is that equipping TWO level 18 raid loot items, put together will give you a lower AC than a lvl 9 quest drop and a normal +5 mith tower shield.

I thought the idea was to make raid loot that made classes better, not make them worse. I've long since thought this was a problem... like releasing raid loot that has Disable Device +10 when there are already +15 items on the market.

[shadrock99]

Dodge bonus on a tower shield would be just fine. Nothing about evasion states you cant use it with a tower shield right? And you have to be in light armor (ie so you can move quickly enough for evasion to take effect...) so I tend to agree a dodge bonus on a tower shield is not over powered in this instance.

[Borror0]

Dodge bonus on a tower shield would be just fine. Nothing about evasion states you cant use it with a tower shield right? And you have to be in light armor (ie so you can move quickly enough for evasion to take effect...) so I tend to agree a dodge bonus on a tower shield is not over powered in this instance.

It's not even on a Tower Shield, it's on a set!

[Twerpp]

/shrug

its not perfectly compatible to a designed for maxed AC Lawful Good or UMD having Chaosguard wearing AND tower shield wearing toon. And its not compatible with some peoples chosen item positioning. They arent entirely useless. From a shield blocking/damage soaking style tank, they are actually quite superior to a +5 mith tower/chaosguard setup. And you dont have to be lawful good or have UMD, or even built for high AC to have great tanking gear. I like it. Isnt it what some people were asking for? Another effective tanking alternative to high AC?

[Borror0]

Another effective tanking alternative to high AC?

You mean, unless you got a Shroud weapon?

[Twerpp]

You mean, unless you got a Shroud weapon?

No, shroud weapon would be the high ac version. This is an ALTERNATIVE!

There are lotsa gimpy tanks in the low 50's or lower who have a LOT more to gain from the 20% healing and extra DR on the shield than the AC from chaosguard/+4 insight.

[samho]

You mean, unless you got a Shroud weapon?

Just curious, which release allow us to craft Greensteel version of Vorpal, Smiting, WoP, Banisher, disruptor weapon ?

I do also agree that it's a reasonable alternative, maybe not that prefect, but reasonable.

[QuantumFX]

But, there is another alternative to fix this Termite: implement a cap on dodge bonus. I'm pretty sure that, by Pen & Paper rules, the cap is +10. Then, add a few more Dodge bonus items. It'll transform the game from "I must get as many Dodge bonus as possible" to "I must get the best distribution of my Dodge bonus".

Another option for limiting Dodge bonus gear would be to treat it as an "Enhancement Bonus to Dodge". For those of you who are confused: Barkskin is a +enhancement bonus to natural armor. For PCs this usually doesn't come into play but for creatues with a natural armor bonus it means that barkskin still manages to increase their AC. Just apply the same mechanic to the Dodge bonuses from items.

Insight seems correct, while Dodge makes NO SENSE. It's a freaking TOWER SHIELD... kind of hard to Dodge with that.

It's not about making a Spiderman type leap across the room to avoid an attack. This can be as simple as shifting your stance so that your attacker doesn't have the reach he needs to hit you.

[Borror0]

There are lotsa gimpy tanks in the low 50's or lower who have a LOT more to gain from the 20% healing and extra DR on the shield than the AC from chaosguard/+4 insight.

The extra DR on the shield is moot, every AC tank will want the Tower Shield. I don't think anyone will say there is anything wrong about the shield itself, except that the Healer's Bound isn't triggering.. ever. As for the power of the bracers, the bracers are really good. A lot of Non-AC tanks want it. However, it's the power of the set that is questionable.

Set for cleric, good.
Set for arcane, good.

Set for AC tanks? Errr...

[Borror0]

Just curious, which release allow us to craft Greensteel version of Vorpal, Smiting, WoP, Banisher, disruptor weapon ?

In that instance, you're only 1 AC over the Chaosguard. Or zero if you manage an "of Parrying" weapon.

[samho]

In that instance, you're only 1 AC over the Chaosguard. Or zero if you manage an "of Parrying" weapon.

I would be more than surprise if anyone go for +1 Vorpal of Parrying instead of +3 Vorpal, and so on. Also you don't forget that the "Parrying" thing is not available on Smiter, Disruptor, not to mention of WoP/WoE type weapon.

Anyway, Levik set may not be the prefect solution for AC build, but I don't think it's a bad alternative especially with those healing bonus and 15 DR. (Especially for those who don't have / want to go for Lawful / UMD route)

[MysticTheurge]

No AC is gained, but at least you won't see high-AC builds totally spurn those bracers for something pulled from Xorian Cipher in module 1.

A good example of why adding Dodge bonuses willy nilly was, is and always has been a bad idea. Every single Dodge bonus item ends up needing to be examined against future loot and can only be replaced by a better Dodge item in the same slot if you want to give people "better loot."

The game needs significantly fewer Dodge bonuses added on items. Not more.

[Turial]

Or they could just change the +3 insight to a +5 insight bonus that way a higher level raid item, which requires 2 pieces to work fully is slightly better then the ac weapons that can be made from the shroud. This allows for players who want a few points of AC to build the shroud weapon while those that are fully geared for AC will hit the hound and pick up the set gear. That being said I think they should change the + threat % a little bit. AC builds generally aren't going to hold aggro by dealing damage. Perhaps have the set reduce the cool down of intimidate or have it give a bonus to intimidate similar to how the vent bracers work for disable or have it apply a small debuff to mobs when the character successfully intimidates them.

[bobbryan2]

A good example of why adding Dodge bonuses willy nilly was, is and always has been a bad idea. Every single Dodge bonus item ends up needing to be examined against future loot and can only be replaced by a better Dodge item in the same slot if you want to give people "better loot."

The game needs significantly fewer Dodge bonuses added on items. Not more.

And I only like the suggestion of changing it to a dodge bonus because it necessitates getting rid of another dodge bonus item to don it.

Hopefully no more dodge bonuses will come on anything other than rings and bracers.

[bobbryan2]

Or they could just change the +3 insight to a +5 insight bonus that way a higher level raid item, which requires 2 pieces to work fully is slightly better then the ac weapons that can be made from the shroud. This allows for players who want a few points of AC to build the shroud weapon while those that are fully geared for AC will hit the hound and pick up the set gear. That being said I think they should change the + threat % a little bit. AC builds generally aren't going to hold aggro by dealing damage. Perhaps have the set reduce the cool down of intimidate or have it give a bonus to intimidate similar to how the vent bracers work for disable or have it apply a small debuff to mobs when the character successfully intimidates them.

That still doesn't address the fact that you have to give up the chaosgardes to equip the set.

4 insight + 2 dodge = 6 AC

Even a 5 insight bonus would be a loss of one AC. Making it a dodge bonus would allow you to trade a 4 insight + 2 dodge in for a 4 insight + 3 dodge.

Which I think it at least in the right direction, considering the chaosgardes are lvl 9.

[Borror0]

Or they could just change the +3 insight to a +5 insight bonus that way a higher level raid item, which requires 2 pieces to work fully is slightly better then the ac weapons that can be made from the shroud.

That would be a bad idea and lead to a lot of frustration. If you want to nerf an item, nerf the ML 9.

[Borror0]

Every single Dodge bonus item ends up needing to be examined against future loot and can only be replaced by a better Dodge item in the same slot if you want to give people "better loot."

The game needs significantly fewer Dodge bonuses added on items. Not more.

I aagree, MT. Problem is, they got to do something about it. Probabyl, the best solution is to put a cap to it. So, after a certain point, it comes to pulling the most effective items to reach the cap, rather than a race to the best AC. Like this, it gives a bonus to the raiders, by letting them put more items into their slots, but it doesn't cripple everyone in that they can acheive that AC anyway.

If that's implemented, Dodge items become much less scary and overpowered.

[sephiroth1084]

Instead of everyone saying that the game needs fewer Dodge bonuses on items, how about calling for the developers to make having an AC that is not totally maxed actually matter? Hmm? If an AC of 50 was more useful than it currently is, then people would not be as compelled to force every Dodge-bonus item they can find into their array. The problem isn't too many dodge bonuses, it is that without totally uber AC, there's hardly any point to having ANY AC in many quests.

I play an AC tank, and it ****es me off that what should be a very interesting item set is completely outweighed by a bonus to AC. I would rather have the higher AC than all the other cool stuff the set brings, because not getting hit is more important than all of the cool stuff the Levik's Bracers (and the combo) provide.

Personally, I agree with the OP, and feel that, if you run the 2 highest level raids currently in the game, which are also the most difficult quests around, beat them, and continue doing so enough times to get 2 pieces of raid gear that are OBVIOUSLY DESIGNED FOR YOUR ROLE, you should be able to equip them without feeling that you're gimping yourself. After all, what is the point of raid gear if using it is equivalent to shooting yourself in the foot?

+6 Str is nice, but we have it elsewhere, and the whole reason AC tanks aren't wearing +6 Str bracers is because they need the Chaosgarde.

20% healing amplification if fantastic, except that not getting hit is more important than being healed better. Getting hit less will result is less mana being spent on you than the 20% will save, AND means that clerics can pay more attention to everyone else that is getting hit. On TOP of that, there is the fact that, if you are already hurt, not getting hit will more likely save you from dying than the healing boost will.

20% threat increase would be PERFECT on my tank...it would work nicely with intimidate and Divine Righteousness, but again, if you want to be the target of your foes' ire, you don't want to get everyone hitting you and then go down like a house of cards. The whole point of being an AC (intimi) tank, is to grab aggro off of people who can't handle it (and handle it yourself). Why grab aggro off of the barbarian who has much more HP than you do, if you're both going to be getting hit frequently? Sure, you may get hit 20-40% less even after the AC loss of using the bracers, but the barbarian likely has 20+% more HP than the AC tank does.

Why take a +3 insight bonus to AC over +2 dodge AND +4 insight? If you use it to replace 2 other items/abilities you find yourself down 3 AC. If you decide to make the +4 AC shroud item anyway, then the +3 AC from the bracers is unnecessary except when you are using a different weapon.

If not a dodge bonus, change it to a sacred bonus, or an exalted bonus, or some other unique bonus that does not currently stack with anything, but would allow for future items that would not stack (perhaps). The benefit of dodge is that it will remain useful until another item in the same slot has a better bonus.

Oh, and there is no upper limit in PnP for stacking dodge bonuses. They stack, end of story. And imposing a cap of +10 would make getting more than 1 dodge bonus item pretty useless for many characters. Combat Exp. (+5), Dodge (+1), alchemical/dodge on armor and shield (+2) leaves us with 2 to spare, which, again, means everyone would probably be holding on to their Chaosgarde, since there would be NO reason to grind the Titan for a bonus you can't fully use.

[Drider]

Bzzt, wrong. Thank you and try again.

The Green Steel bonus is BETTER than the newer Levik's Defender bonus. If I want the best AC, I can't use Levik's Bracers because they WILL bring it down.

Then don't use the bracers. Not every item in the game has to fit into what slots you have available and also be better then what you had before.

[Mhykke]

Then don't use the bracers. Not every item in the game has to fit into what slots you have available and also be better then what you had before.

I don't think the problem is that people are asking for every item in the game fitting into people's available slots.

I think people are pointing out the fact that raid loot made for a specific kind of character (one that cares about AC), shouldn't actually hurt what that character is trying to achieve, you know, since it's geared towards them.