+5 Blue shine Mith FP of light fort

[Tolan_Darkwood]

I bought a +5 blueshine mithril Breastplate off the auction house yesterday for 32kpp. I know its not worth as much as fullplate but still....

[Yabba]

........It seriously puts a huge downer for me seeing somebody make a deal under the table rather than offer it up for roll. I've even seen somebody win the roll just to give it to somebody who lost the roll........

Well...... The leader of the Phoenix Crusaders (PC) made a post indicating that his guild frowns upon this kind of behaviour, basically outlawing it from any PC raids. You shoulda seen the flood of replies with people say 'My loot. Don't tell me what to do with it'.

[Amabel]

... please see my WoP for large scales thread.

[LionSwift]

Please noone pounce me.. I do not see the problem winning loot, and then someone in the raid sayin "hey, i have a lot to trade you for the item you just won" and working out something. Example:

Player 1 and 2, along with others, roll on a W/S rapier (pretend its raid loot, bind on pickup). Of course everyone wants this. Both players 1 and 2 can use the rapier. Player 1 wins, Player 2 sends him the tell "trade?". So even though player 1 can totally use the rapier, he may rather have a group of uber items than this one super uber item. What's wrong with this scenario and letting player 2 loot for a trade? It's not like he was rolling for greed purposes. He was rolling because he could use the item. However someone sent him a tell with items he could use more.

Honest question. Dont jump down my throat. I dont understand whats wrong with it.

[Betz]

some of you people need to take a good hard look at yourself

[Aeneas]

Please noone pounce me.. I do not see the problem winning loot, and then someone in the raid sayin "hey, i have a lot to trade you for the item you just won" and working out something. Example:

Player 1 and 2, along with others, roll on a W/S rapier (pretend its raid loot, bind on pickup). Of course everyone wants this. Both players 1 and 2 can use the rapier. Player 1 wins, Player 2 sends him the tell "trade?". So even though player 1 can totally use the rapier, he may rather have a group of uber items than this one super uber item. What's wrong with this scenario and letting player 2 loot for a trade? It's not like he was rolling for greed purposes. He was rolling because he could use the item. However someone sent him a tell with items he could use more.

Honest question. Dont jump down my throat. I dont understand whats wrong with it.

The problem is that somebody was nice enough to allow folks in the party a chance at an item "that they will use" then they turn around and use it as a bargaining chip. It's kind of a slap in the face.

[LionSwift]

The problem is that somebody was nice enough to allow folks in the party a chance at an item "that they will use" then they turn around and use it as a bargaining chip. It's kind of a slap in the face.

I guess I just view things differently. imo, it has nothing to do with being nice enough to allow folks in the party a chance at an item, its a matter of it took the whole party working together to get the item. I believe in need before greed, so first people who are actually going to use the item should roll. But if it's not a big upgrade and its not bind on pickup, then whoever rolls, rolls, and what they do with it is their decision.

If I could really use an item but someone beats me on the roll, who am i to tell that person what to do with it or that i deserve it more because i really could use it and they dont. thats why the /roll is there. its fair and thats that. the other guy deserves it just as much as i did as it took both us to get it anyway. thats just my opinion though.

[The_Phenx]

Because the person was nice enoguh to GIVE IT AWAY by putting it up for a roll.

Then you win the roll and turn around and SELL it to someone else.

If thats the case you should give whatever you got in trade to the guy who GAVE IT AWAY.

Its shiesty... pure and simple.

If your not going to keep it don't roll on it.

Because then it would go to someone who not wants it but will acutally use it.

[LionSwift]

Because the person was nice enoguh to GIVE IT AWAY by putting it up for a roll.

Then you win the roll and turn around and SELL it to someone else.

If thats the case you should give whatever you got in trade to the guy who GAVE IT AWAY.

Its shiesty... pure and simple.

If your not going to keep it don't roll on it.

Because then it would go to someone who not wants it but will acutally use it.

Maybe im just confused on the situation. Im thinking this is something like end loot on dragon or titan or whatever else where there are a limited number of chests so only like 2-3 people out of the whole raid get something. So the leader says "I have item 1, who's rolling", and people roll and the winner ends up trading it to someone else in the raid. Is that the situation? If so, then whats wrong? 2 people in the raid are happy instead of just 1. I must be mistaken on the situation because I dont understand the "nice enough to give it away and put it up for roll".

But no matter the circumstance, the guy isn't giving it directly to you. He's putting it up for raid/group roll. If my guildies give me something directly to help me, I'm gonna use it and if i dont need it or when im done with it, Im gonna give it back or to another guildy. If some guy in a raid or party says "you know, I dont really need this, here if you want it, roll for it" then im gonna roll on it and if i win it, i may use or or i may not. if i win and someone sends me a tell "hey i'll give you <insert whatever here> for that" and I think I could use whatever hes giving me more, then I'm gonna trade it and i'll be happy and he'll be happy. That's 2 people getting what they want instead of 1. Then if he uses it to trade for something else he wants, then thats 3 happy people getting what they want all because I won a single roll. Am i hurting the guy's feelings by trading something away that he put on /roll? Is he going to lose sleep over it? I would hope not, and if so, then he really needs to get away from online gaming for a bit.

[jkm]

you are thinking of the old warded chest system.

this was a real scenario without names

silly bird gets +3 strength tome in reaver chest
bird has already eaten a +2 and the +3 really doesn't do much
barbarian starts spamming bird with offers (bloodstone, +6 cha ring (back when they were pretty uber))
puts str tome up for roll because of guild rules (even though there is a guildy in the raid)
different barbarian wins roll (not guildy)
barbarian switches str tome to barbarian spamming me with tells and says yeah, i'll take that deal.
silly bird at that point becomes cynical with loot

[LionSwift]

you are thinking of the old warded chest system.

this was a real scenario without names

silly bird gets +3 strength tome in reaver chest
bird has already eaten a +2 and the +3 really doesn't do much
barbarian starts spamming bird with offers (bloodstone, +6 cha ring (back when they were pretty uber))
puts str tome up for roll because of guild rules (even though there is a guildy in the raid)
different barbarian wins roll (not guildy)
barbarian switches str tome to barbarian spamming me with tells and says yeah, i'll take that deal.
silly bird at that point becomes cynical with loot

Thanks for straightening out. I have only been back for 2 weeks after 2 years of being away so I don't know the new system. Didnt know the warded chest system was old..

[Raegoul]

If i may add something,

When a person puts a bound raid loot item up for roll they are considering OTHER PEOPLES needs. If someone was to roll on a bound raid loot item on the basis that they want to sell it or trade it then they are undermining the GOOD INTENTIONS of the person who put it up for a roll. It is an action that REJECTS the kind offer of a gift. The FREE GIFT is offered in fairness and as far i can see the only person who has the right to trade or sell is the original owner and if they were to put it up for roll it is they who have announced it as a GIFT to someone who has a GREATER NEED.

[The_Phenx]

Maybe im just confused on the situation. Im thinking this is something like end loot on dragon or titan or whatever else where there are a limited number of chests so only like 2-3 people out of the whole raid get something. So the leader says "I have item 1, who's rolling", and people roll and the winner ends up trading it to someone else in the raid. Is that the situation? If so, then whats wrong? 2 people in the raid are happy instead of just 1. I must be mistaken on the situation because I dont understand the "nice enough to give it away and put it up for roll".

But no matter the circumstance, the guy isn't giving it directly to you. He's putting it up for raid/group roll. If my guildies give me something directly to help me, I'm gonna use it and if i dont need it or when im done with it, Im gonna give it back or to another guildy. If some guy in a raid or party says "you know, I dont really need this, here if you want it, roll for it" then im gonna roll on it and if i win it, i may use or or i may not. if i win and someone sends me a tell "hey i'll give you <insert whatever here> for that" and I think I could use whatever hes giving me more, then I'm gonna trade it and i'll be happy and he'll be happy. That's 2 people getting what they want instead of 1. Then if he uses it to trade for something else he wants, then thats 3 happy people getting what they want all because I won a single roll. Am i hurting the guy's feelings by trading something away that he put on /roll? Is he going to lose sleep over it? I would hope not, and if so, then he really needs to get away from online gaming for a bit.

Ok here leme lead by example.

Think real life.. it would be like going to the homeless shelter to get a free meal.. then taking your meal out into the parking lot and selling it to someone and pocketing the cash.

Meanwhile a homeless man goes hungry because there isn't enough food to go around.

Apply liberally to DDO raid chests.

[Raegoul]

Ok here leme lead by example.

Think real life.. it would be like going to the homeless shelter to get a free meal.. then taking your meal out into the parking lot and selling it to someone and pocketing the cash.

Meanwhile a homeless man goes hungry because there isn't enough food to go around.

Apply liberally to DDO raid chests.

Yep and while there is plenty of food in Stormreach we all still remain homeless

[The_Phenx]

Yep and while there is plenty of food in Stormreach we all still remain homeless

I heard that there are so many foreclosures that Turbine has been picking up cheap-o houses and while they can't give them to us in game... we will all be getting one in real life... in mod 12.

[Strakeln]

try putting a +3 str tome up for a roll and then having the person who won the roll cut a deal with someone else...

Sounds like one of my rants from back in the day ('cept it was charisma )

[Strakeln]

Well...... The leader of the Phoenix Crusaders (PC) made a post indicating that his guild frowns upon this kind of behaviour, basically outlawing it from any PC raids. You shoulda seen the flood of replies with people say 'My loot. Don't tell me what to do with it'.

Most of that thread was people agreeing with most of what was posted, with the exception of a couple of sticking points. After all, the PC rules were essentially "it's your loot" with some caveats...

Such as, the contradictory rule of being allowed to give away your loot to whomever you choose, unless, of course, you choose two or more people and wish for them to roll to see which you give it to.

That's right... it's okay to give your loot to whomever, but if you break out the dice to decide who to give it to, TOO BAD... everyone gets to roll on your equipment.

So, let's say you're on your wizard and you pull a +3 str tome. Despite being able to use it, you decide you want to give it to one of the two barbarians in the party, and ask them to roll. BZZZT! I'm sorry, since you want to put it up for roll, according to Phoenix Crusader rules, you have to allow everyone to roll! So now the sorcerer in the party can outroll the barbarians, turning an act of need before greed into greed before need.

[The_Phenx]

My loot I wont give it to someone who wont/cant use it... Easy solution.

And Me personally I offer to guildies first... there has to be some reason to be in a guild other than knowing the guys you run with done stink.

[Shagn]

And Me personally I offer to guildies first... there has to be some reason to be in a guild other than knowing the guys you run with done stink.

For me, being in a guild means I can get to know and be friends with people who like playing the same game I do. I don't think your guildies (besides the dwarves maybe) would like you saying they stink.
I will offer my raid loot up for fair roll, because it was the actions of everybody in the group that completed the raid, not just fellow guild members. Remind me to not join your raids, because I don't want to be excluded from rolls because of your racist ideals.

Man... did this thread ever get derailed!

[Flintsen]

Man not that it matters anymore but talk about Hijacking a thread, JEEZ, go start your OWN. LOL