State of the Sorcerer

[frugal_gourmet]

LOL. Any quest the requires only 2 specific spells to be a valid contributor is extremely ill-designed. Never done it, but it sounds awful.

I wouldn't change your sorcerer. Just don't run the shoddy quest.

[transtemporal]

LOL. Any quest the requires only 2 specific spells to be a valid contributor is extremely ill-designed. Never done it, but it sounds awful.

I wouldn't change your sorcerer. Just don't run the shoddy quest.

But theres uber lootz!

Seriously, I've always been a big advocate of finding other ways to do something but web, AF and SF are just the logical choices for these quests. The insane SR of these mobs means that you end up wasting half your spells, even spell-penned to the max.

Come to think of it, contagion/blinding sickness might be a good choice on my cleric if the lag didn't prevent me from targeting anything.

[Aspenor]

That was one ugly raid, 3 consumed mana pots and nothing to show for it. That raid party was poorly composed for an easy completion. We had far too many mana sinks and not nearly enough DPS. Combine that with a drunk and inexperienced raid leader and we were doomed to failure with or without web. With a well built party you can do w/o having web so long as you bring SF, AF, debuffs, and haste. I agree that a nuker sorc or insta kill sorc really has no place in that raid.

True enough Jer, you can do it without the webs, but man oh man are they a major boon. Web + SF or Web + AF is 2x as good as just a fog spell by itself.

[Aspenor]

LOL. Any quest the requires only 2 specific spells to be a valid contributor is extremely ill-designed. Never done it, but it sounds awful.

I wouldn't change your sorcerer. Just don't run the shoddy quest.

It's not a bad quest, I enjoy it, but it's not for everybody.

If you're not flexible and a team player, then no, this quest is not for you.

[vainangel]

Not sure I can talk

I do not have HASTE or Firewall at lvl 11.

I went for charms, ck, pk, glitter and then some of the trad attack spells like MM, Fireball, Cold ray....oh and elemental protection and stoneskin.

And SP additions through feats and action points as well as the wand and scroll boots. [for those times 1300+ pp is not enough between resting]

Most people do not build thier sorc like mine. But I love playin him.

[SlipperyPete]

True enough Jer, you can do it without the webs, but man oh man are they a major boon. Web + SF or Web + AF is 2x as good as just a fog spell by itself.

Just out of clarify, are you using web on the bats and devils only? I can't see the spell being very effective on anything else in VoD.

Haven't had my sorc in there yet. Just my cleric who I used as leverage to get my rogue in on the next run for the goggles.

[Shandi]

Come to think of it, contagion/blinding sickness might be a good choice on my cleric if the lag didn't prevent me from targeting anything.

They make their save against that *every*darn*time* we had 2 clerics trying that last time around and i think 1 of those devils got blinded.

for 7th level i dropped dancing sphere for symbol of stunning, I am maxed out spell pen so hitting waves of exhaustion from a scroll is no problem for me, even less when I ask one of the melee dps to hit the mob with a shattermantle weapon for the first 10-15 seconds of the fight while I apply my debuffs.

Web is a life saver for me, I even got a few of the sorcs in my guild to stop using dancing sphere in part 1 of the shroud in favor of web because it hits more reliably and seems to cause less lag

[vainangel]

Web is a life saver for me, I even got a few of the sorcs in my guild to stop using dancing sphere in part 1 of the shroud in favor of web because it hits more reliably and seems to cause less lag

I used to use web until HOLD PERSON and HOLD MONSTER proved to work a bit better [for me]. What perks does Web have over those?

[Merkinsal]

I used to use web until HOLD PERSON and HOLD MONSTER proved to work a bit better [for me]. What perks does Web have over those?

AOE spell, no will save, sp saver, works on almost anything heightened most of the time, can be used to pull agroed mobs into with good results and melee can do the same. I just entered Gianthold with my lvl 10 sorc and am very interested in seeing how web works with a lvl appropriate character. So far in pop and crucible the results have been mixed. The clerics and wizards in pop seemed completely unaffected but the mobs in crucible were stopped dead in their tracks, just the opposite of what I would have thought. (Couldn't pk the wizards and clerics in pop either, shoot)

[Aspenor]

I used to use web until HOLD PERSON and HOLD MONSTER proved to work a bit better [for me]. What perks does Web have over those?

No SR check. Reflex save, not will.

Monsters in VOD have obnoxious fort and will saves. Casting hold monster you will land it less than 25% of the time, the SR check on a max spell pen sorcerer requires about a roll of 6 or greater, perhaps even 7. This means about a third of your spells never even need to be saved on. The rest of the time the monster saves. This is with a 38 charisma and maximum spell penetration and heighten.

Lesson: use non-SR check spells with reflex saves, aka web.

These monsters have fort and will saves in the mid to high 20s in my estimation.

Holds and fingers work fine in the Shroud where saves are low.

Monsters in The Hound of Xoriat are completely immune to all mind affecting spells, and have high fort saves. Fogs are your friend for this quest.

[Aspenor]

Just out of clarify, are you using web on the bats and devils only? I can't see the spell being very effective on anything else in VoD.

Haven't had my sorc in there yet. Just my cleric who I used as leverage to get my rogue in on the next run for the goggles.

Web and bats only? Those are most of the monsters in the quest.....

I carry waves of exhaustion for the nameds and the big devil.

[vainangel]

No SR check. Reflex save, not will.
Monsters in The Hound of Xoriat are completely immune to all mind affecting spells, and have high fort saves. Fogs are your friend for this quest.

Quite helpful, TY

[Shandi]

yea what they said vainangel was just typing my reply and i didnt want to sound like a broken record

[gfunk]

Dancing ball useless? well, not quite for me.. its a question of duration: often i will drop one where i know something will spawn so i can come back and kill it when i am done doing something else (esp in part1 shroud). Heightened/extended web is great and i use it all the time however it's duration is pretty short, so it's nice to have something else to fall back on in some situations. Also, it's a problem in quests were mobs cast flamestrike on you... bye bye web.. I also drop one on top of web's in some cases for some redundancy.

That said, I won't go into VOD or Hound with my sorc until I have changed dancing ball out. Actually have a few things i need to switch up with an emphasis to debuffing/cc. In the past i had gotten by with copious solid fog clickies, which wont quite cut the mustard in hound due to short duration.

I notice that many many sorcs are still not doing much debuffing. When not on my sorc, I have been in many reaver/shroud runs were no-one casts debuffs on the named... even when there are multiple casters in the group. I mean, not even a ray of enfeeblement which lands nicely off a clickie! And the 20+ dancing balls in Reaver are a major pet peeve of mine... makes it so i can't see the stupid ele's. I think maybe 1 sphere is useful in tanking area, but only if you have limited insta kill power in the group. With 2 casters, the ele's should be down in less then 10 seconds.

I suspect the instakill might still be useful on the bats in visions, esp if you dont have a ranger knocking them out of the sky. Kind of funny that the once mighty sorc is now the rat... er bat catcher...

[frugal_gourmet]

It's not a bad quest, I enjoy it, but it's not for everybody.

If you're not flexible and a team player, then no, this quest is not for you.

I didn't mean to sound as harsh as I did. But seriously, only 2 spells are effecive? I'm not excited about it. It's D&D tradition that sorcerers not easily be able to to retrain their spells, although I do realize they allow you do it for a cost every few days in this game.

It just seems like it'd be a little cooler if more than 1 or 2 basic spell strategies worked. One aspect of the game I definitely DON'T enjoy at high levels is how different leaders demand I retrain various spells for different quests. Since spells can only be retrained every few days, I find myself limited in what I can choose at any given moment. I also find myself asking why certain quests are so limited in possible success strategies.

[Vordax]

It's not a bad quest, I enjoy it, but it's not for everybody.

If you're not flexible and a team player, then no, this quest is not for you.

This is why I am leveling a second sorc. I will have one that has the spells I like to run with and are fun. The other sorc will be the one with the boring spells to help contribute to guild raids.

Vordax

[Merkinsal]

But theres uber lootz!

Seriously, I've always been a big advocate of finding other ways to do something but web, AF and SF are just the logical choices for these quests. The insane SR of these mobs means that you end up wasting half your spells, even spell-penned to the max.

Come to think of it, contagion/blinding sickness might be a good choice on my cleric if the lag didn't prevent me from targeting anything.

In Vod the leader asked me to get some Glitterdust scrolls. I cast that on top of Solid Fog and Web. I couldn't see anything through all the aoe and have no idea if the Glitterdust was bypassing will saves or not. It is a level two spell and unheightened on scrolls so I doubt it worked too well. Once again I beg the devs for longer and saveable combat logs.

[totmacher]

yeah, there was a number of factors that contributed to that failed raid but I learned from it I think... a good portion of the blame should be heaped on me because of how I treated people afterwards (should have talked about it in private after the raid), my state of mind and also the fact that I wasn't confident about leading that sort of raid. there were the other things jeryle mentioned but I think I learned from it overall, especially about the perception of winning and how's it connected with actual success.

I'll have to apologize to Rha later this weekend, since it was my bad

[Merkinsal]

Hmmm, haven't heard this story.

Why hasn't anyone told me about this run!!

I can tell you like a good disaster story, so do I, so i have another one for you lol. My one and only VoD run I am chosen to give resist and protection buffs sonic, fire, and elec on the entire party and on anyone who dies upon res as well as web and fog, debuffs, and help with bats of course. We did finish but after I consumed 15 major pots. There was a point at which the leader was going to call the raid because the clerics were whining about running out of pots and using scrolls. The other caster stepped in and gave the three clerics a couple pots apiece so the raid would go on. His contribution and usage total was slightly less in terms of majors but he said he did burn thru a couple cure serious wands as well as other supplies.

Personally I don't get it. If I am going into a quest I do everything I can do to finish no matter what it takes if I got it. I had never heard so much whining in my life. Maybe I'm just an idiot but the idea of knocking the board off the table because I don't like the way the game is going seems lame. Of course I have not finished a quest before, but in VoD we were all alive and well until the clerics decided they had had enough. I don't know anybody who believes a cleric only ever carries around a few majors. Maybe that's practical as a cleric, to pull out at the first sign of trouble if you run that quest alot. As for me, thats the last time I'll be handing out buffs like that. 6 per person times 12 party members times deaths times expirations times portals times rest shrines. Never heard about those kinds of demands on a sorc before.

[Mhykke]

I can tell you like a good disaster story, so do I, so i have another one for you lol. My one and only VoD run I am chosen to give resist and protection buffs sonic, fire, and elec on the entire party and on anyone who dies upon res as well as web and fog, debuffs, and help with bats of course. We did finish but after I consumed 15 major pots. There was a point at which the leader was going to call the raid because the clerics were whining about running out of pots and using scrolls. The other caster stepped in and gave the three clerics a couple pots apiece so the raid would go on. His contribution and usage total was slightly less in terms of majors but he said he did burn thru a couple cure serious wands as well as other supplies.

Personally I don't get it. If I am going into a quest I do everything I can do to finish no matter what it takes if I got it. I had never heard so much whining in my life. Maybe I'm just an idiot but the idea of knocking the board off the table because I don't like the way the game is going seems lame. Of course I have not finished a quest before, but in VoD we were all alive and well until the clerics decided they had had enough. I don't know anybody who believes a cleric only ever carries around a few majors. Maybe that's practical as a cleric, to pull out at the first sign of trouble if you run that quest alot. As for me, thats the last time I'll be handing out buffs like that. 6 per person times 12 party members times deaths times expirations times portals times rest shrines. Never heard about those kinds of demands on a sorc before.

15 majors.

Ouch.

And yes, I love it.