Elven Melee / Ranged Barb

[Artierius]

OK, here is a go at trying to do two things at once….Melee / Ranged. I know all about min/max’in and being great at what you need to do, but I’m trying to shoot for the middle of the road here so to speak.

I have seen other 12 Barb / 2 Rng / 2 Ftr types out there but none were Elves. So I am going to lay it out there and look for feedback…even though I’m sure this guy would be a good performer at both melee and range. More so at range even doing things solo as his ability to kite things from the increased movement would come in handy.

32pt Elven - 14 Barb / 2 Rng (Revised after the discussions)

Str – 16 + 4 levels / + 6 item / +1 Tome / + 9 Rage = 36
Int – 10
Wis – 8
Dex – 18 + 2 Dex / + 6 item / +1 Rng / +1 Tome = 28
Con – 14 + 2 Favor Tome / + 6 item / + 2 Barb / + 8 Rage = 32
Cha – 8

Now I’m sure you can squeeze alittle more from the stats from higher up raid items and madstone items and such, but I’m just listing what a normal player should be able to get no problem. (Atleast no problem with alittle effort in farming a few quests for plat and buying a couple of things on the AH...:])

Feats:

1st – Toughness (Can exchange out for PA or maybe Precise shot / ImpCrit: Range when you get a Minos Helm)
3rd - Pointblank Shot
6th – ImTwf
9th – Improved Crit: Pierce
12th - GrtTWf
15th – Manyshot

Ranger feats – Bow Str / Twf / Rapid Shot

Level progression would be:

1-2 Ranger / 3-16 Barb

Enhancements:

Elf Melee II (If you feel your to hit is ok, by all means do the damage bonus here - or go +1 hit / +2 dam and free up 2 points)
Barb Hardy Rage II
Rng Dex I
Elf Ranged II (If you feel your to hit is ok, by all means do the damage bonus here - or go +1 hit / +2 dam and free up 2 points)
Barb Extended Rage II
Elf Dex II
Barb Strength Rage III
Barb Extra Rage II
Barb Willpower II
Barb Con II
Barb Toughness IV
Barb Crit II

Hitpoints:

20 Heroic
168 Barb
16 Rng
176 Con (when raged)
10 Draconic
18 Toughness
50 Barb Toughness
18 Minos Helm
30 Greater False Life

506 Hp

While not the highest HP total a Barb can get I think you might just survive with alittle over 500 HP.

Armor class:

10 base
7 Bracers (Armor)
4 Robe (Dodge - Perdition Robe)
9 Dex
5 Deflection
3 Bark

38 Self Buffed

3 Chattering Ring (Dodge)
1 Haste
2 Better Barkskin
4 Palli
4 Insight
1 Alchemical
4 Shield Clickies
2 Recitation

59 Total buffed (-2 for Raging all the time)

6 Improved Uncanny Dodge(really tough fights)

65

While Armorclass is not a high regard to most Barbs I thought I throw it out there to see where it landed. While most players will not get alot of this, they could mitigate some damage by maintaing a moderate Ac level...while those diehard players might see the upper end of this.

Base saves would be:

12 / 7 / 4

11 / 9 / -1 Stats
5 / 5 / 5 Resist (Item - though +4 is more likely here for most)
1 / 1 / 1 Luck (voice)
4 / 4 / 4 Gtr. Heroism

32 / 26 / 13 + Barb Willpower bonuses / Elf Resists (+11 vs Enchantment based spells / +5 vs Will based)

Again the low save here will be Will as usual on most melee builds...however in taking some barb enhancements / elven resists your saves for holds and such should come out to be not to bad. Plus party buffs will increase them even more..such as Palli Aura...Recitation.

Base attack bonus is not watered down at +16 so there is only one way to go...up in that catagory..which will happen with all the buffs...weapons ...stats...enhancements you have at your disposal.

Again this guy will be a Twf...ranged capability while being able to maintain a respectable AC if wanted. Please let me know if I hit the middle of the road here in melee /archery.

[Dark-Star]

Drop ostwf and toughness, drop the two fighter levels for 2 more barb levels and crit rage 2. Consider going icrit ranged instead of slash.

[captain1z]

Drop ostwf and toughness, drop the two fighter levels for 2 more barb levels and crit rage 2. Consider going icrit ranged instead of slash.

What you suggest here shocks me............. really.


Drop:


OSTWF + Toughness + IMP Crit:slash < Crit rage 2 + ImpCrit: ranged = does not compute


Without manyshot I see no reason to have ImpCrit: ranged

......... actually I just took a sec to review the posted build. I see why so suggest what you have.

crit rage 2 I say yes.............. crit ranged I say no.............. keep ostwf + toughness if you can..... you can get buy without crit slashing.

again without manyshot...I dont see the point. ROF is too slow.

[Dark-Star]

He has many shot sir.

[Artierius]

Thanks for input guys, but I do believe 12 levels of barb gets me Crit range II from there enhancement package. I could see dropping Improved Crit: Slash for Ranged though. The only reason I stuck with 2 melee crits here is because I figured ranging would be a secondary attack still and having a better selection of melee weapons to crit with was better. Bow crits on an 18-20 with no Improved Crit Range when raging or 17-20 with it....so pick to your pleasure there. Although Silver bow would crit 17-20 and 16-20 which is nice.

Thanks again for some input.

Stand corrected on the Barb Crit II...as the homepage is incorrect...level 14 gets you that...:/

[Artierius]

Here is what I came up with....2 levels of Barb get me Indomidable Will..and Barb Crit II...as well a 4HP...instead of Fighter levels of 2. You suggested dropping OTwf and Toughness but getting Ranged Crit here. Based upon my feat selection I couldn't get both crits in due to the level restriction and BaB on them without sacrificing my Twf abilities somewhat or Manyshot. I would also lose Ftr Str I...and 68 HP. Now I could make up the strength by dropping the Barb Toughness Enhancements due to no Toughness feat and pick up Barb Rage Str III / Barb Con III and Barb Rage Con III. This would get my str back to even and also get me 16 hp back.

OR

I could change my feat selection to not include Otwf...and take a ftr level later to keep all my Twf ability intact...and the HP total the same. This would lose Indomidable will but no crit range lose due to the fact I didnt have enough feats to take them at the higher levels without losing Gtwf or Manyshot. SO...the new feat selection and level progression is as follows:

1st: Toughness
3rd: Pointblank Shot
6th: ImTwf
9th: IMcrit: pierce
12th: Gtwf
15th: Manyshot

Ftr feat: IMcrit: slash (9th level)
ftr feat: Imcrit: Ranged (10th level)

Level 1-2 Rng / 3-8 Barb / 9-10 Ftr / 11-16 Barb

Thanks for the info guys ..and if you see anything weird in my explanations ...feel free to comment. Thank you.

[rimble]

Crit Rage II is at 14, the Compendium is wrong right now.

[Dark-Star]

You will end up with marginalized melee and marginalized ranged. I'd pick one or the other and focus on that. Two feats is not worth losing crit rage 2.

[Artierius]

Actually it is the same thing....having IMcrit: pierce /slash / range and Barb crit I = barb crit II. I will only be able to take 1 crit range the other way with 14 barb...and have to give up other higher level feats if i want to increase that barb crit range II even farther...so either way I'm losing out on many shot...GtrTwf....or some crit range.

So the other way I did propse lets me keep my manyshot and Gtwf and the crit range as if i had barb crit II without the additional IMcrit feats I couldn't take.

Hope that makes more sense there.

And as far as being marginalized...I think having a 1 better crit range on all those weapons from all other classes except barb's who specialize in nothing but crits...taking all the crit feats as well as BArb crit II is not totally acurate.

[maddmatt70]

Actually it is the same thing....having IMcrit: pierce /slash / range and Barb crit I = barb crit II. I will only be able to take 1 crit range the other way with 14 barb...and have to give up other higher level feats if i want to increase that barb crit range II even farther...so either way I'm losing out on many shot...GtrTwf....or some crit range.

So the other way I did propse lets me keep my manyshot and Gtwf and the crit range as if i had barb crit II without the additional IMcrit feats I couldn't take.

Hope that makes more sense there.

Darkstarr has it right with his first suggestion. That is a stronger character concept.. Having two crit melee crit ranges isn't worth that much.. Piercing is better especially for non dwarves in the game right now.. Consider though you don't have powerattack with your build either which most barbarians would say is a barbarian must. Well maybe you can pick that up at level 18..

[Osharan_Tregarth]

Thanks for input guys, but I do believe 12 levels of barb gets me Crit range II from there enhancement package. I could see dropping Improved Crit: Slash for Ranged though. The only reason I stuck with 2 melee crits here is because I figured ranging would be a secondary attack still and having a better selection of melee weapons to crit with was better. Bow crits on an 18-20 with no Improved Crit Range when raging or 17-20 with it....so pick to your pleasure there. Although Silver bow would crit 17-20 and 16-20 which is nice.

Thanks again for some input.

Stand corrected on the Barb Crit II...as the homepage is incorrect...level 14 gets you that...:/

Heh.. I've still got crit range I on my 10 barb/6 ranger. I just can't ever respec until the level cap goes up.

[Tulsa_Doom]

The fighter lvls give you more feats and I have 2 barb mixes that dont have crit rage 2, the difference is neglible. You can do gtwf and have a many shot monster with power attack. I rolled something close to it, stats are close didnt really pay attention to feats or skills but elf 12/2/2 barb/ranger/fighter. Its fun.

For the record there was a brief time that you could actually get crit rage 1 at lvl 6 and crit rage 2 at lvl 12. It was a mistake. Now they are back to norm.

[Artierius]

I have read everything and I am following what you'all have to say here.....it seems to me that both concepts have there merit and no doubt both would be able damage dealers. With that said, as far as PA goes on a build..in normal and hard content I agree it is very nice to have....however in elite content ...as many times as it makes you miss..which equals no damage...to the more times you would hit with it off....even for less damage, it is not going to make or break a Str build toon with a 36 or over Str.

So with that....keeping to a 14 Barb / 2 Rng concept...I lose Ftr Str I...IMcrit:slash and Range but will make up the Str with Barb Str Rage III (that's 2 points from Ftr str I gone and 1 point in losing Elven Enchanment Res. I). The 2 crit feats are held up with Barb Crit range II in place and you get your +3 crit range to pierce still.

So IM going to update the Original post to reflect this.

Again thanks guys for all input..I know you all want to be all you can be....but this isn't the Army>>>that's a joke guys...:]

[Twerpp]

Hit Points are way over-rated by noobs who think you need a billion of them. IMO thats why elves are highly underrated as melee capable. This looks like a killer build and Im glad to see you using an elf to make it that much better. Keep us posted Id love to see what crit raged manyshots look like!

[captain1z]

He has many shot sir.

aahhh so he does.


@ 15th missed that


well in that case, every suggestion you made seems very sound and logical.

[Osharan_Tregarth]

Keep us posted Id love to see what crit raged manyshots look like!

Tasty AND nutricious!

[Humperdink]

A couple of ideas to consider Artierius- At level 11 you can use the Toughness feat on the Minos Legens helmet you get in the Orchard. This is what my halfling 14barb/2rogue does. This would allow you to use that extra feat slot to swap out Toughness for Improved Critical: Ranged. It appears you are using piercing weapons for melee since you have Improved Critical: Pierce. Since you don't have Power Attack you might try using dual Puncturing rapiers for stat damage, 1d6 Con dmg on a 13-20 critical. Or wield two Vorpal weapons. I actually use both on mine and then switch to heavy picks for DPS on rednamed or baddies you can't do stat dmg to. Or I assume you may be ranging red named most of the time so Power Attack isn't required. Picking up two levels of rogue might be fun at level 17 and 18. This will give you evasion, skill points (into Jump, Balance, etc), extra 1d6 sneak attack dmg, Action boost (allows you to attack faster for a short period of time, not sure if it affects Ranged. action boost and many shot could be a sick combo).

Oh, and don't forget +2 Luck bonus from the Head of Good Fortune Trinket out of the Reaver raid if you can get it.