Guild schmild

[Pyromaniac]

Well I can guarantee I won't run with him again, and unfortunately as I don't know his alts, that'll probably mean avoiding the guild in question, which is a shame as I've had good runs with people from that guild.

QFT, I'm now avoiding the guild in question given the behavior of that player, who happens to be the guild leader. If the guild leader griefs us, well that represents the guild.

No issues with PUGs in general, I just avoid people who intentionally try to mess up 11 other people's raid.

Here's the relevant background of the player in question's behaviour (let's call them player and no that's not their name):
-Player is about 8th one to join group, group forms, rest of group asking where player is after waiting for 5-10 min for them
-Repsonse - I'm getting planar shards out of the bank
-Group heads for hounds, player seems unable to follow group
-Cleric 1 hangs out at end of first instance trying to get player to follow them. Player dives into trap pit and dies. Cleric 2 stops at end of second instance to keep it open, as group is already almost to quest
-Player comes back in subterranean, dies again (and a third time). Note there is a cleric with them trying to keep them alive. Honestly we should have just kicked them at this point but you try your best given there are players new to the quest and its always good to be helpful.
-Party sends 3 clerics and I think one other toon went to go get player and walk them to quest
-Player barely gets to quest, lots of party members suggest carrying stone might be easier
-Party logs into hounds through portal, player DC's
-Player leaves group immediately after DC (switching toons and thinking nobody would notice)

Intentionally dc'ing and switching toons immediately....after we all zone into hound....we'll let's just say I don't care about excuses - that's griefing the rest of the raid members. Too inexperienced to realize that dc'ing and switching toons would show the rest of the party that it was intentional behavior.

We do typically pug out some spots on a regular basis, and as a result have made some new friends as well as found some interesting players.

Edited to add more detail, if someone wants to threaten me I'll post what happened: I'll let the Thelanis community decide if that's behavior that they want in their raids.

[Thame]

my response was in response to the guild leader of said guild above, who waisted an hour of 11 peoples time, by not showing up on time, not being able to get past the 1st skellys without recalling 3 times, cant follow players that have recalled to help him, while 11 players are strun across 3 instances waiting for said player. once we get player there. and zone into raid, said guild leader purposely dc's and drops group changing to an alt... without saying a word... the only thing he did say was I hope jrp doesnt think I am a muppet?? my response was what else could we think, it took 3 recalls to meridia, multiple deaths, and he went to the bank to get his planar shards before going to the hound, still cant understand that one. what a nightmare it was
i have no problem pugging theres tons of good players all over

jrp

What I dont understand is why they care wether u think they're a 'muppet' or not?

[Thame]

my response was in response to the guild leader of said guild above, who waisted an hour of 11 peoples time, by not showing up on time, not being able to get past the 1st skellys without recalling 3 times, cant follow players that have recalled to help him, while 11 players are strun across 3 instances waiting for said player. once we get player there. and zone into raid, said guild leader purposely dc's and drops group changing to an alt... without saying a word... the only thing he did say was I hope jrp doesnt think I am a muppet?? my response was what else could we think, it took 3 recalls to meridia, multiple deaths, and he went to the bank to get his planar shards before going to the hound, still cant understand that one. what a nightmare it was
i have no problem pugging theres tons of good players all over

jrp

Ok had to do another post to this. I look at this in 2 perspectives

1) Apparently someone must think they are some kind of DDO god to think everyone is WORRIED that they might be called a muppet. Ok lets look at what a muppet is, its a puppet used by Jim Henson back in the day to create a TV show. Now we have someone calling others a MUPPET as if it were a bad thing? Ok Ill put myself in the recieving end. I was just called a muppet. Um ok. Is that bad? Could someone have come up with a better insult then 'muppet'? Oh no my virtual life in my virtual world will now stop, because someone behind a computer screen has called me a muppet. If your gonna make an attempt at insulting me, (and muppet is pretty lame/lousy) atleast put some effort into it. Come on, my 8 year old can do better then 'muppet' Which leads to....

2) If there is anyone that is actually insulted by this, then it may be time for you to step back from your computer, look around and get a reality check. DDO is not real. The trees outside, the green grass, the neighbors annoying dog you wanna kill, thats real life. Think about this....if you are actually worried about being called a MUPPET in a virtual world, then you need to go be evaluated for some emotional problems.

Cant say Im posting this as a bash on anyone in particular, just speakin my mind

[juniorpfactors]

Ok had to do another post to this. I look at this in 2 perspectives

1) Apparently someone must think they are some kind of DDO god to think everyone is WORRIED that they might be called a muppet. Ok lets look at what a muppet is, its a puppet used by Jim Henson back in the day to create a TV show. Now we have someone calling others a MUPPET as if it were a bad thing? Ok Ill put myself in the recieving end. I was just called a muppet. Um ok. Is that bad? Could someone have come up with a better insult then 'muppet'? Oh no my virtual life in my virtual world will now stop, because someone behind a computer screen has called me a muppet. If your gonna make an attempt at insulting me, (and muppet is pretty lame/lousy) atleast put some effort into it. Come on, my 8 year old can do better then 'muppet' Which leads to....

2) If there is anyone that is actually insulted by this, then it may be time for you to step back from your computer, look around and get a reality check. DDO is not real. The trees outside, the green grass, the neighbors annoying dog you wanna kill, thats real life. Think about this....if you are actually worried about being called a MUPPET in a virtual world, then you need to go be evaluated for some emotional problems.

Cant say Im posting this as a bash on anyone in particular, just speakin my mind

who knows why the player in ? brought it up, noone called the guy a muppet, he asked the raid group the ? we all just kinda froze up ...deadly quiet and I said ya so far your playing like a muppet

move on, I have never used it as a insult directed at anyone EVER, its a term many people we group with throw at each other when we do something stupid like hit BB when healing the dogs, or forgetting FF or not getting the quest

u have missed the entire point of my post.... avoid said player he brings nothing to the table, he drops group because he is so drunk according to his guildies ..whatever

jrp

[silverraven]

What I dont understand is why they care wether u think they're a 'muppet' or not?

Personally, I would love to be a muppet...specifically the Swedish Chef

[Thame]

Personally, I would love to be a muppet...specifically the Swedish Chef

DUDE THE CHEF ROCKS. I have seasons 1 and 2 of the muppets on DVDs the chef and pigs in space are awesome lol

[Thame]

who knows why the player in ? brought it up, noone called the guy a muppet, he asked the raid group the ? we all just kinda froze up ...deadly quiet and I said ya so far your playing like a muppet

move on, I have never used it as a insult directed at anyone EVER, its a term many people we group with throw at each other when we do something stupid like hit BB when healing the dogs, or forgetting FF or not getting the quest

u have missed the entire point of my post.... avoid said player he brings nothing to the table, he drops group because he is so drunk according to his guildies ..whatever

jrp

If you dont use it as an insult or anything and use it to joke around then why do you post it on lfms? It must be directed at someone.

[Ringos]

Ok had to do another post to this. I look at this in 2 perspectives

1) Apparently someone must think they are some kind of DDO god to think everyone is WORRIED that they might be called a muppet. Ok lets look at what a muppet is, its a puppet used by Jim Henson back in the day to create a TV show. Now we have someone calling others a MUPPET as if it were a bad thing? Ok Ill put myself in the recieving end. I was just called a muppet. Um ok. Is that bad? Could someone have come up with a better insult then 'muppet'? Oh no my virtual life in my virtual world will now stop, because someone behind a computer screen has called me a muppet. If your gonna make an attempt at insulting me, (and muppet is pretty lame/lousy) atleast put some effort into it. Come on, my 8 year old can do better then 'muppet' Which leads to....

2) If there is anyone that is actually insulted by this, then it may be time for you to step back from your computer, look around and get a reality check. DDO is not real. The trees outside, the green grass, the neighbors annoying dog you wanna kill, thats real life. Think about this....if you are actually worried about being called a MUPPET in a virtual world, then you need to go be evaluated for some emotional problems.

Cant say Im posting this as a bash on anyone in particular, just speakin my mind

For not giving a rat's behind if someone is calling you a muppet or not, you sure do seem to get worked up about it.

I'm not saying, I'm just saying.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

Personally, I would love to be a muppet...specifically the Swedish Chef

ANIMAL! Beat Drums.

[Thame]

For not giving a rat's behind if someone is calling you a muppet or not, you sure do seem to get worked up about it.

I'm not saying, I'm just saying.

Ah I was waiting for that response, it took longer then expected tho. Im not worked up about it at all. Curious to the train of thought behind it tho. Doesnt make alot of sense. It amazes me at the amount of ego some people might have. He stated it doesnt mean an insult or anything such. Then I was asking why then he would post it in LFMs such as 'no muppets'. Its not a class or race so why post it?

Apparently you are more worried then anyone so far. You have it posted in your sig. NOT A MUPPET Obviously it worries you to be called a muppet

And Im just saying.....Im curious why

[juniorpfactors]

If you dont use it as an insult or anything and use it to joke around then why do you post it on lfms? It must be directed at someone.

"dude" tell me when you have seen JRP put it in an lfm... "dude" did it once or twice maybe 6 months go as a joke...the rest are all copy cats, all my toons are jrp or juniorp... will give you 1 mil plat for a screenshot of me hostin an lfm with no muppets in it, they are not by Jrp, to many thin skins out there to ruffle feathers..and random players sending me tells asking what is a muppet, its a heck of alot more polite than Noob lol, and so all those no muppet lfms you see are other people who obviously like the term...so maybe you just dont get it,

[Thame]

"dude" tell me when you have seen JRP put it in an lfm... "dude" did it once or twice maybe 6 months go as a joke...the rest are all copy cats, all my toons are jrp or juniorp... will give you 1 mil plat for a screenshot of me hostin an lfm with no muppets in it, they are not by Jrp, to many thin skins out there to ruffle feathers..and random players sending me tells asking what is a muppet, its a heck of alot more polite than Noob lol

jrp

Ah so thats the purpose behind it. Still a wierd way of saying ' experience a must' So then I guess it goes back to the old ' everyone was new at one time' bit. Now now.....dont try to turn this thing around. I have never put my names in my sig and see no reason too.

[juniorpfactors]

Ah so thats the purpose behind it. Still a wierd way of saying ' experience a must' So then I guess it goes back to the old ' everyone was new at one time' bit. Ok Im done

considering, its almost 100% posted on lvl 15-16 raid runs, its simply saying dont be that guy who cant do their job, and their are people that buy accounts and have no idea what they are doing ...they are out there... and we just trying to avoid em lol

jrp

[Ringos]

Apparently you are more worried then anyone so far. You have it posted in your sig. NOT A MUPPET Obviously it worries you to be called a muppet

And Im just saying.....Im curious why

Hey, I DO worry about being called a Muppet...where did read me post otherwise? You are accusing me of something that I freely admit. Now, just because I worry about not being a Muppet doesn't mean that you don't as well. Keep on pointing the finger though, maybe nobody will know that you are frightened my furry friend.

[Merkinsal]

I avoided the last thread that dealt with pugs vs guilds because its kind of a no win conversation that invites all kinds of bad experience stories. But this thread seems a little different somehow.

Pugs are of course the life blood of DDO and the game would not exist as it does today without them. I am in a guild but spend much of my time, no, most of my time pugging.

I have to say I often find that quests and raids with a core of guild members or friends, mine or others, are fun because of the experience and knowledge of the core group of players and make great pugs. Also, I have noticed many members of what could be called the elite guilds are out pugging more and more and that is a good sign to me. Spread some of that joy in the way of experience and knowledge around I say and let's not forget the smaller guilds and rl friends and groups are just as rich in knowledgeable and experienced players.

Pugs are alive and well in DDO.

I say all this first becasue of a persistent practice to base parties on what guild someone is in, or not in. A comment in a shroud run that the party appeared to be a good one because of all the recognizable guilds that were represented, some of those guilds of course that approve or disapprove guild members and who I call "elite" by definition and are deservidly so.

Point is, we can do better than that, be better than that, and stop blackballing guilds by the actions of a few or be so selective in pugs either recuriting or choosing those requesting to join for the same reason. Yeah, I have my stories too but so what, but I'll tell one anyway I found myself looking at the who list the other day to see what guilds the lfm pug group members were in and guess what lol, "good guild" in the group and we sucked. I could kick myself for doing that in the first place. I got what I deserved. I can be better than that.

We owe so much to the people who take players into their groups and teach them the game I can't even begin to think of a way to thank them. If pugs didn't exist, DDO would be out of business and we would all be playing some other game *yuck*

[debo]

I recently left one of the more established guilds on my server ... well for personal reasons... leave it at that . And I gotta say... the pug world is a blast. I love never having to group with anyone. I solo all the quests... even the raids. It is great that I don't have that pesky guild chat ... and I have to sit there and actually talk to OTHER people. YUCK. Guilds suck...and pugs are the way to go.

/sarcasm off

All honesty... the pug world is cold. I recommend any new player in this game to find a well established guild. You learn at a much faster clip and you get exposed to much more of the game etc...

Of course there are a lot of people who do not need guilds in this game. But it isn't for everyone that is for sure. The fastest way to lose interest in this game IMO is to be in no guild or be in a dying guild where people don't play anymore.

[Thame]

Hey, I DO worry about being called a Muppet...where did read me post otherwise? You are accusing me of something that I freely admit. Now, just because I worry about not being a Muppet doesn't mean that you don't as well. Keep on pointing the finger though, maybe nobody will know that you are frightened my furry friend.

u have some serious issues

[juniorpfactors]

u have some serious issues

Ringos = the Doctor of Thelanis

Ringos> muppet

jrp

[Uproar]

I have been doing PUG 100% and have for 6 months. It typically is a lot fun with very few failures.

Guilds in DDO don't recruit much. It constantly amazes me that I have got to the levels I have on several toons and never been asked to join a guild. Not even once (and no, I'm not a terrible player-- I screw up sometimes, but I've received more then a few compliments on my attitude / playing during those same months).

That's o'kay. PUGing works just fine and I don't get hauled off to do things I'd rather not (at least not very often).

[DoctorWhofan]

Lol...ain't nothing boring about running with us!

But you are not in my guild!! Never said you weren't fun!

No group activities, no "Guild Raids" most of the time we don't even play together, exception being the hubby and I. The guild was formed in the day that blind guild invites were the norm. We help each other one one is asked, that's when you might see three of us in a party. No formal raids, no nothing. We either form groups, or join existing ones. We have a good rep of being the filler member in a Guild only party, just not Merc's Only.

Just a bunch of us being guildless without being guildless. WE have some rules, mostly be flexible and be prepared to handle PuGs, and we help each other out finacially/items/etc. But with the differnent time zones and real Life, the chance to party together is slim to none.

Been like that for two years.


As forthe intolerance, it's more the differance (like Grand Canyon Difference sometimes!) between secure little people you know and know their toon as well as you know your own, to getting everything from muppets to zerger elitists and trying to do a quest with them all in one party. Some people cannot handle it, for legimimate reasons or not, others tend to lash out on the group, then on the forums saying that all PuGs are "@#$#*$#_"

whatever.

There's my stance and belief on that.