Guild schmild

[scampb]

/rant on

You know, I get tired of reading about guilds that like to play with guildies only because PUG's don't know what they are doing or don't know how to play their role in a raid etc. etc. It is a huge let down to hear that. Everyone was new at some point in time. Instead of constantly knocking those that are trying to get better, next time when you have to ask for some PUG's to join you can ask them if they have a lot of knowledge, little knowledge or no knowledge of the raid in question. Then you can take the opportunity to actually teach someone something. This way they will go about Stormreach spreading the great news about the guild that was the most awesome ever to run with. The guild that showed him/her how to complete the raid. The guild that offered help when others wouldn't.

I am currently in a guild where I run with about 5-6 guys on a regular basis. We all play for the fun of the game and don't get all worked up when someone messes up, example; POP yesterday, a room where you had to answer questions or something. I had never done that room and I was the one to pull the switch. When I saw nothing was going on after a minute or so I opened the door again. 'Why did you do that?' I heard. 'Because nothing was happening' I responded. We all got a good laugh because it was funny. I was expecting a battle where there wasn't one to be had. Heaven forbid I did that in a PUG full of some of these guildies that expect only perfection. There are a handful of others not in my guild that I love to run with also. I PUG a lot because my guildies are not always on at the same time. I love it.

Really now, give people a chance. Invite PUG's into your guild raids, communicate and not only will you help someone learn something new but you will also give your guild a good name.

/rant off

[Belwaar]

I agree

...in my guild...we usually PUG 2-3 people when run normal quests and even raids. We just have a lot of close-knit friends in the guild and everyone's on all the time...which is a big reason we dont' PUG a lot...HOWEVER...I agree that you should teach people if they don't know the quest(s).

ONLY thing I REALLY want to point out...is that the PUGee (lol) should LISTEN! I'd say I know TOR better than most...I could write a guide on how to run it to the T and be efficient and quick about it, while getting all XP, etc. I've ran with a lot of new people and have had a 50/50 chance of completing it successfully. I've gotten lucky and found guys that listen and everything went great. BUT, i've ran with people that didn't listen and we'd wipe (usually at the White Dragon)...so it's about the person too..

but I agreee that you should give everyone a shot

[Ringos]

True, just a couple things to remember:

-There are a LOT of guilds that invite pugs
-Many of those do attempt to help out and impart some knowledge
-Not all guilds rant about how bad pugs are...those are just the really vocal folks
-Some people just like runnning with guild mates, as there is a reason they are in the guild in the first place


Take care.

-Ringos

[Xaearth]

Mror's a small guild, so we PuG a fair bit.

Granted most of the time we do, I end up ranting about the PuGs in guild chat...
*shrug* Nothing personal, just whenever my guild leader has the star he literally finds some of the most horrible PuGs in history.
He's cursed I tell ya, cursed!

That said, I still PuG... I just make sure I've got plenty of... erm... mood lifting foods and beverages when he's the one with the star.

[Clay]

If any guild NEVER ran with puggers they'd stagnate and die...

Its not like there is a birth rate in a guild. Only people coming and people going.

[scampb]

True, just a couple things to remember:

-There are a LOT of guilds that invite pugs
-Many of those do attempt to help out and impart some knowledge
-Not all guilds rant about how bad pugs are...those are just the really vocal folks
-Some people just like runnning with guild mates, as there is a reason they are in the guild in the first place


Take care.

-Ringos

Sorry Ringos, I was not trying to say that good guilds do not exist. I have run with many. I agree with you 100%. My post was in reply to one that was posted recently where the poster was ranting about their guild picking up PUG's. I hope they read it and I hope I got my point across to them.

[juniorpfactors]

Mror's a small guild, so we PuG a fair bit.

Granted most of the time we do, I end up ranting about the PuGs in guild chat...
*shrug* Nothing personal, just whenever my guild leader has the star he literally finds some of the most horrible PuGs in history.
He's cursed I tell ya, cursed!

That said, I still PuG... I just make sure I've got plenty of... erm... mood lifting foods and beverages when he's the one with the star.

thats funny I found him and he proved to be carrying the Flag. Especially after dropping on purpose as we entered the Hound after spending almost an hour getting him there... after his recall, death, death, death, recall recall, it was a true Muppet and at least he knew it

jrp

[Agarth]

Oh, serious question. Why do you call them muppets Jrp? :P

But in all honesty, I am guild leader for Stormhaven and have found myself either in PUGs or LFM that require me to pick up PUGs. I normally don't mind getting PUGs unless I know for a fact that that person is going to ruin an experience for the whole group.

Many of the great people that I have met have been in PUGs, but that's just my opinion.

~Riosse

[juniorpfactors]

Oh, serious question. Why do you call them muppets Jrp? :P

But in all honesty, I am guild leader for Stormhaven and have found myself either in PUGs or LFM that require me to pick up PUGs. I normally don't mind getting PUGs unless I know for a fact that that person is going to ruin an experience for the whole group.

Many of the great people that I have met have been in PUGs, but that's just my opinion.

~Riosse

my response was in response to the guild leader of said guild above, who waisted an hour of 11 peoples time, by not showing up on time, not being able to get past the 1st skellys without recalling 3 times, cant follow players that have recalled to help him, while 11 players are strun across 3 instances waiting for said player. once we get player there. and zone into raid, said guild leader purposely dc's and drops group changing to an alt... without saying a word... the only thing he did say was I hope jrp doesnt think I am a muppet?? my response was what else could we think, it took 3 recalls to meridia, multiple deaths, and he went to the bank to get his planar shards before going to the hound, still cant understand that one. what a nightmare it was
i have no problem pugging theres tons of good players all over

jrp

[Deathseeker]

I personally enjoy doing the combo run with 3 or 4 guildies and a couple of PUGs. That way, if things get a little out of line with a PUG, we have enough people to work together to overcome it. I also like to recruit people that I enjoy running with, and it's definitely harder to recruit when you don't run with anyone outside the guild

I like having a few non-guildies in a run...best way to learn something new or different about the quest, spells, gear, etc.

But the best part about running with a mix of guildies and PUGs? When you get a real loser of a PUG, is there anything more fun than to discuss it thoroughly and comically on Teamspeak/Ventrillo during the run? Shoud I feel guilty about that? Come on, you know you all do it whether its by voice or in the guild chat channel...good times...

[petegunn]

I hope you don't mind me jumping on your thread i was going to do one of my own but this seems kind of fitting seeing I'm the great Irish pug well technically I'm Northern Irish but thats kinda hard for some peeps to grasp ^^so I'll remain Irish for most .
Well heres my dilemma i have two capped characters and one soon to be capped and since we're talking about pugging , learning and various other things pertaining to puggles here goes . I want to pug the raids , i want to learn , i want to help out ! but with five ! yes i type again five ! failed shroud runs this past fortnight and four failed hound runs three weeks ago i just can't afford to anymore . I'm the type of guy who gets embarrassed if i have to ask for wands scrolls etc .
So who am i ? i like to think of myself as someone who has a vague clue as to whats going on , I'm semi sensible meaning i'm far from perfect ,who can listen and take orders depending on the method of instruction , who will try for the team . My strengths ! able to think on my feet and improvise , and offer suggestions to problems , a good team player with a good nature , dedicated and loyal i e i don't bail unless the quest has been deemed untenable .Weaknesses fairly new to the game perhaps my little cleric , petegunn capped too fast ! from level one to sixteen in over a month with a cleric , as an alt for a new player, now thats one blurry memory of stormreach easily missed heh ^^ real life comes first ! and last but not least since mod 7 a rather suspect internet connection lol .

well hopefully i never went of topic
happy pugging 1 yours truly Petegunn

[Ringos]

Sorry Ringos, I was not trying to say that good guilds do not exist. I have run with many. I agree with you 100%. My post was in reply to one that was posted recently where the poster was ranting about their guild picking up PUG's. I hope they read it and I hope I got my point across to them.

NP. Just wanted to throw a couple of thoughts in here, no worries!

[Agarth]

my response was in response to the guild leader of said guild above, who waisted an hour of 11 peoples time, by not showing up on time, not being able to get past the 1st skellys without recalling 3 times, cant follow players that have recalled to help him, while 11 players are strun across 3 instances waiting for said player. once we get player there. and zone into raid, said guild leader purposely dc's and drops group changing to an alt... without saying a word... the only thing he did say was I hope jrp doesnt think I am a muppet?? my response was what else could we think, it took 3 recalls to meridia, multiple deaths, and he went to the bank to get his planar shards before going to the hound, still cant understand that one. what a nightmare it was
i have no problem pugging theres tons of good players all over

jrp

Ah, muppet! :P I figured something to that extent, but just wanted to make sure. It is rather frustrating when something like that happens. Not much you can do but shrug it off/kill that person in the PVP pit... repeatedly.

~Riosse

[Darkwolf1071]

my response was in response to the guild leader of said guild above, who waisted an hour of 11 peoples time, by not showing up on time, not being able to get past the 1st skellys without recalling 3 times, cant follow players that have recalled to help him, while 11 players are strun across 3 instances waiting for said player. once we get player there. and zone into raid, said guild leader purposely dc's and drops group changing to an alt... without saying a word... the only thing he did say was I hope jrp doesnt think I am a muppet?? my response was what else could we think, it took 3 recalls to meridia, multiple deaths, and he went to the bank to get his planar shards before going to the hound, still cant understand that one. what a nightmare it was
i have no problem pugging theres tons of good players all over

jrp

/qft

I was one of the other 11 as well. The most frustrating part was that after we went ahead and decided to go in short-handed after his Gonzo-esque move, we got the Hound's life bar down the width of the letter l before we wiped. Sure would have been nice to have had one more sword in there, I guarantee we'd have succeded.

Ah, muppet! :P I figured something to that extent, but just wanted to make sure. It is rather frustrating when something like that happens. Not much you can do but shrug it off/kill that person in the PVP pit... repeatedly.

~Riosse

Well I can guarantee I won't run with him again, and unfortunately as I don't know his alts, that'll probably mean avoiding the guild in question, which is a shame as I've had good runs with people from that guild. Darn shame that the actions of one person can impact others so much.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

I have a bad opinion of many guilds.

Too elitist. Unfriendly to PUGers, insisting that everyone does things their way. etc.

I tend to be a loner....slow to make friends. And ironically there are a few people I've met in-game that I absoulutely love to play with......who are now in so tight with their Guilds that I never get to group with them anymore.

Raids........the new ones are "guild only" most of the time.

I scan the "who" page and see many people on in groups.
I look around Gianthold or meridia and see bunches of chars standing around.

And I look on the LFMs and see.......nothing.
That tell me you're all grouped up with your guildies.

Not a bad thing, but doesn't leave room for non-guidies to run with ya.

Yeah, I could join a guild......I've been offered a few times by some. But it's usully only a couple of the guys in the guild that I like to run with.

I don't add many names to my friends list....but I remember those who I group with several times and enjoy. Need to have voice chat and a talkative personality for me to remember though......or post a lot on the forums. Several people I actually seek out because of their posts here, and not because I remember them in-game.....or at least not in-game first.

The people I enjoy most are all from different guilds as well. So that would make joining any one guild counter-productive in some ways.

Anyway, kinda like in real life is you join a gang, it doesn't leave room for outsiders, and many times the gang treats outsiders bad as well.

[Agarth]

I have a bad opinion of many guilds.
Anyway, kinda like in real life is you join a gang, it doesn't leave room for outsiders, and many times the gang treats outsiders bad as well.

I like the word "posse" instead.

But it is true Talon, many do frown upon PUGs for the simple fact that they're in a guild, why should they use anyone who's not in thier guild to group with?

Simple answer, the experience. You never know what you're going to find with new people in a PUG. They might be good, they might be bad, but you'll never know if you've never had the chance to partake in adventuring with them.

~Riosse

[DoctorWhofan]

Merc's only Guild = PuG's only Guild

Been PuGging for over two years, and lovin' every minute of it! Can't imagine doing anything with the same people over and over again. BOR-ING!

[Ringos]

Merc's only Guild = PuG's only Guild

Been PuGging for over two years, and lovin' every minute of it! Can't imagine doing anything with the same people over and over again. BOR-ING!

Lol...ain't nothing boring about running with us!

[transtemporal]

DWF - I don't mean to be obtuse, but whats the point of being in a guild if you only PUG? Doesn't that defeat the point of having a guild in the first place?

OP: you'd think this would be a no-brainer right? Be tolerant and help out new people, don't be a d*ck, get a good rep for your guild. But I think a lot of people forget that. They'd rather be farming raids and being uber.

[DoctorWhofan]

DWF - I don't mean to be obtuse, but whats the point of being in a guild if you only PUG? Doesn't that defeat the point of having a guild in the first place?

OP: you'd think this would be a no-brainer right? Be tolerant and help out new people, don't be a d*ck, get a good rep for your guild. But I think a lot of people forget that. They'd rather be farming raids and being uber.

No group activities, no "Guild Raids" most of the time we don't even play together, exception being the hubby and I. The guild was formed in the day that blind guild invites were the norm. We help each other one one is asked, that's when you might see three of us in a party. No formal raids, no nothing. We either form groups, or join existing ones. We have a good rep of being the filler member in a Guild only party, just not Merc's Only.

Just a bunch of us being guildless without being guildless. WE have some rules, mostly be flexible and be prepared to handle PuGs, and we help each other out finacially/items/etc. But with the differnent time zones and real Life, the chance to party together is slim to none.

Been like that for two years.


As forthe intolerance, it's more the differance (like Grand Canyon Difference sometimes!) between secure little people you know and know their toon as well as you know your own, to getting everything from muppets to zerger elitists and trying to do a quest with them all in one party. Some people cannot handle it, for legimimate reasons or not, others tend to lash out on the group, then on the forums saying that all PuGs are "@#$#*$#_"

whatever.