Flesh golems and the like..

[boldarblood]

yeah okay so I tried disintegrate last night.. a nice spell (when they dont make their save!) but I doubt I'll be using it alot since I like the guarunteed dmg of scortching ray etc. and now I gotta wait 3 days to swap it out again... LOL **** wizzies!

and now what about Devils? anyone have a favorite spell to use on Devils and Orthans?

I could not drop disintegrate, I use that spell for so many things that are immune to everything else.

[Desteria]

I could not drop disintegrate, I use that spell for so many things that are immune to everything else.

Same here, i don;t use it often any more but the times I use its the ONLY spell that will work, golems and a few other constructs certen undead that put up firesheidl and are immune to cold and have sheild or mantal to stop force spells

[llevenbaxx]

I could not drop disintegrate, I use that spell for so many things that are immune to everything else.

Same here. Just hit level 12 last night and was chomping at the bit to get disintegrate. I felt like I had a major weakness against a good deal of things(mostly mantle wearing bosses and constructs) without "big-D" to throw around. Very versatile spell, one my sorc will never be without.

[MistressMayhem]

Orthons are so easy to use Suggestion on (I don't have mass). I love getting a few to do my bidding. They seem to take down the Devils fast and when one Orthon breaks the others take him down without issue. I always get really nervous though, when that one last charmed Orthon is just lingering by me and I've run out of mana. O_O

[Merkinsal]

Firewall for flesh golems works if they can be kept in it for awhile.

Disintegrate for when nothing else will do, which is often enough throughout the game to make the spell worthwhile. There are many uses in the Desert, Gianthold and Orchard but also has some uses in the Vale quests too.

For Devils FoD is great. If they start to save I hit them with an evervation first. For crowd control web, DB, and solid fog will make the melee and clerics very happy. For pure dps, electric is unequaled for both Orthons and Devils. FoD doesn't land on Orthons.

Nothing beats scorching ray for dps, unless the mob is fire resistant or very susceptible to disintegrate. Scorching ray max damage is 11d6 with no save. Disintegrate is caster level-d6 which can go to 16d6, with a save for 5d6, but against many mobs hits for much more. Certainly not a replacement for scorching ray but invaluable when nothing else will work. With the number of hit points the mobs begin to have, relying on dps will drain sp in no time, but there are times when heavy dps is needed. Certainly experienced melee geared to the teeth can beat down anything in a quick enough time in the newer content to make the sorc dps a minor contriubution. We have all been on quests where we can't even get a spell off before the mobs are down and everyone is moving on to the next encounter, but that is usually not the party make up and a couple disintegrates can make a huge difference in bringing down some mobs.

[frugal_gourmet]

That reminds me...

I'm very curious to see a comparative analysis of disintegrate vs. force missiles, given that they are both spells that can be wielded against elemental immune opponents.

What I'm most curious about is whether force missiles can approach similar DPS if the caster has the full line of force enhancements. I'm theorizing that it actually wouldn't be that far off, since:

1) Force can be specialized in and improved substantially DPS-wise (disintegrate cannot) in addition to the other standard modifiers.
2) Disintegrate requires an additional 50% of casting time.
3) Disintegrate can be saved against fairly reliably with a decent fortitude save (doesn't seem uncommon to me). When saved against, its damage is very mediocre.
4) Disintegrate frequently misses in situations where the target is moving around or is quite jumpy.

What I expect is that it largely depends on the target. Creatures with weak fort. saves (i.e., undead) would be prime choices for disintegrate whereas high fort. creatures can be more easily whittled away via force.

Anyway, the only reason I ask is I have a medium-high level caster (with some force specialty enhancements) who was recently told when joining a PUG that he *must* have disintegrate to kill the main end guy. I spent a lot of money retraining myself to suit the leader's desires. What I found, though, after a few loot runs is that I could utilize force missiles faster w/ 100% accuracy (for admittedly less gaudy numbers per succesful hit). I'm curious as to whether that strategy might have worked equally well over the entire course of battle.

[sirgog]

Same here. Just hit level 12 last night and was chomping at the bit to get disintegrate. I felt like I had a major weakness against a good deal of things(mostly mantle wearing bosses and constructs) without "big-D" to throw around. Very versatile spell, one my sorc will never be without.

Funny, I found the opposite.

During Mod 5 I swapped in Disintegrate. It was solid then, but now, it's been respecced out of. Unless you are against a foe with a low Fort save (which is rare), the spell does less damage than almost all other damage spells.

I consider it a spell a soloist cannot be without, but no other Sorc should consider taking, particularly when two of the best crowd control spells in the game (Acid Fog and Mass Suggestion) and two of the best party support spells (Greater Heroism and Reconstruct) and one of the best damage spells (Chain Lightning) are all at the same level.

[hmartyb]

"FoD doesn't land on Orthons."

Wow, I FoD them a lot. Banish works better, though.

[Merkinsal]

"FoD doesn't land on Orthons."

Wow, I FoD them a lot. Banish works better, though.

Ya, there are three kinds of Orthons and two kinds of Elite Orthon Defenders per the DDO catalog. The Elite I have seen in the shroud can not be touched with FoD. They are listed with a spell resistance of 28 which is impossible to overcome, so that eliminates several other spells too. I don't know what their fortitude and will saves are but they must be high. Some I hear apparently carry deathward also. Given a choice of targets, I go after the lions and devils first and leave the orthons to the melee.

[frugal_gourmet]

Ya, there are three kinds of Orthons and two kinds of Elite Orthon Defenders per the DDO catalog. The Elite I have seen in the shroud can not be touched with FoD. They are listed with a spell resistance of 28 which is impossible to overcome, so that eliminates several other spells too. I don't know what their fortitude and will saves are but they must be high. Some I hear apparently carry deathward also. Given a choice of targets, I go after the lions and devils first and leave the orthons to the melee.

Wouldn't a spell resistance of 28 mean that a level 16 caster with two spell penetration feats would need to roll a 10 or better to defeat his spell resistance? In other words, he'd have a 50% chance? That's how PNP D&D works.

I believe the equation in question should be:

Caster Level + Spell Resistance Feats + Spell Resistance Enhancements + Spell Resistance Items + d20 vs. Enemy Spell Resistance - Enemy Debuffs

[Merkinsal]

Wouldn't a spell resistance of 28 mean that a level 16 caster with two spell penetration feats would need to roll a 10 or better to defeat his spell resistance? In other words, he'd have a 50% chance? That's how PNP D&D works.

I believe the equation in question should be:

Caster Level + Spell Resistance Feats + Spell Resistance Enhancements + Spell Resistance Items + d20 vs. Enemy Spell Resistance - Enemy Debuffs

Um , yes and I don't know. Debuffs that affect saves I thought were the reflex, will, and fortitude type saves. Then there are the stat damage debuffs. I don't know off hand what debuffs would affect spell resistance. I've been told enervation does not either and that affects the mobs level.

As for the yes part, yes the spell pen plus d20. There's nothing more to say about that (knocks head on virtual wall).

[frugal_gourmet]

Um , yes and I don't know. Debuffs that affect saves I thought were the reflex, will, and fortitude type saves. Then there are the stat damage debuffs. I don't know off hand what debuffs would affect spell resistance. I've been told enervation does not either and that affects the mobs level.

I believe there's something that lowers spell resistance. Maybe a debuff effect rather than a spell. Shattermantle?

[MrCow]

I don't know off hand what debuffs would affect spell resistance.

Weapon effect: Shattermantle (bestows -3 Spell Resistance for 12 seconds when hit with a weapon with this effect).

There is also the Rogue's Way of the Assassin I poison: Soulshatter. I'm not sure how much that lowers Spell Resistance by though.

[Merkinsal]

I believe there's something that lowers spell resistance. Maybe a debuff effect rather than a spell. Shattermantle?

You are so much a diplomat Ok, heres one for you. A guilde tells you he took the eschew materials feat on his sorc. What do you say?

[MrCow]

Ok, heres one for you. A guilde tells you he took the eschew materials feat on his sorc. What do you say?

I say nothing out of the fear that if my mouth did open, all that would come out would be hysterical laughter.

[frugal_gourmet]

You are so much a diplomat Ok, heres one for you. A guilde tells you he took the eschew materials feat on his sorc. What do you say?

I say good for him. Materials are yucky anyway. Totally worth it to skip empower spell if I can avoid touching those disgusting hen hearts all day.

[Merkinsal]

I say nothing out of the fear that if my mouth did open, all that would come out would be hysterical laughter.

Which is pretty much what I did I carefully repeated what he said to make sure I wasn't delusional and then kinda said "oh."

I say good for him. Materials are yucky anyway. Totally worth it to skip empower spell if I can avoid touching those disgusting hen hearts all day.

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