Need to ease up on the ban of rogues...

[MrCow]

doesn't the fire ellie only have a str of 10 mrcow? i know i've been with a caster who made him just stand there and take a beating before...

Fire elementals have rather good STR. What you witnessed was the caster stood in a spot where the elemental probably couldn't decide to move closer to attack/engulf them in flames or move back a bit and fireball. Fire elementals have AI deadspots where they may do nothing if they aren't close enough or far away enough to you.

[Beherit_Baphomar]

Obviously u cant sneak attack the portals.

But doesnt Wrack Construct help out here?

[Asirin]

You're problem isn't being a rogue, You're problem is ignorant people with a star.

Someone mentioned smoldering cudgels... Well a pure rogue could swing a couple smoldering cudgels at Harry and still out-dps some of the tanks, yellow zeros and all.

Anyway, it's fairly common for ignorant group leaders to decline rogues, second bards, multiclasses, and pretty much anyone who isnt a pure cleric or barbarian. I wouldn't worry about it. In almost every case these are not the groups you want to be in anyway. These are the same group leaders that take their jobs far too seriously... Micromanaging part 1, speaking down to people, overbuffing, and a host off other issues that accompany judgemental and overbearing group leaders.

The real experts dont have to exert themselves over people to overcome their own self-doubt and lack of experience. They a) likely have a rogue and know what kind of dps they are capable of, and b) have the leadership skills to take a variety of party types through the shroud in well under an hour without focusing the spotlight on themselves at all, nevermind the entire time.

Take some notes on who declines you and move on... They are, in fact, doing you a favour.

/signed
A repeater rogue (with the right repeater) can put up Nice numbers against Harry...as for the DPS against the portals ....TWF GCB rapiers FTW

[Varr]

But doesnt Wrack Construct help out here?

How can it? Does any rogue have this loaded? I need about 50 more enhancment points already.............cant imagine trading for this line. Anyone else use this and not respec away from it?

[jkm]

Fire elementals have rather good STR. What you witnessed was the caster stood in a spot where the elemental probably couldn't decide to move closer to attack/engulf them in flames or move back a bit and fireball. Fire elementals have AI deadspots where they may do nothing if they aren't close enough or far away enough to you.

okay, they just have a lousy intelligence. earth ellies are the ones with the horrible dex that you penalize...

[Beherit_Baphomar]

How can it?

I finally got around to posting on this again and let me assure you guys this ability rocks. For 6 ap you get to put rogues on the map for shroud 1. Coupled with a cursespewer i was able to land this on 3/4 of the portals despite their impressive saves. I got backstab damage, i got crits, and most importantly THE REST OF THE PEOPLE BEATING ON THE PORTAL DID TOO. Smooth like butter. Smooth i say!

This is what I was asking.

[jkm]

But doesnt Wrack Construct help out here?

How can it? Does any rogue have this loaded? I need about 50 more enhancment points already.............cant imagine trading for this line. Anyone else use this and not respec away from it?

not when i found out the shroud portals have a reflex save of around 40...

[Varr]

Interesting.............6 ap more to dig up! ahahahah!! Now I need 56 more.........


Also, 40 reflex save!! Those are some agile portals.....

[Impaqt]

Leveling my melee rogue was interesting.... WIth the Barb splash, all the groups with Barbs wouldbe highlighed for me as availabale to join and often I clicked without eventhinking about it. I got so many tells saying "Sorry, looking for some DPS" or "sorry, We have a ROgue already" to WHich I replied "Good, Cause I got 391 Hit Points, a Self Bufed 34 STR, Dual Weakening Of enfeeblers with Crippling Strike,and a Backpack full of the best toys in the game... I'm here to Kill and Make it easier for the other melee to Kill"

XXX Invites you to their Party

I dont get to use that all that often anymore......

[Beherit_Baphomar]

Interesting.............6 ap more to dig up! ahahahah!! Now I need 56 more.........

Well....was just sayin...is all...

[Naash]

There is a ban on Rogues? For the Shroud? Never really noticed.

I am, Rameses!

Just stay in the corner and keep out of trouble....the Fiend CLEAVES ya know! ;P

[Guildmaster_Kadish]

oh, you are so on peppr's list for that comment...

LOL!

*Mumbles something about seeing the key word "usually" in the statement*

[Rameses]

Ah good, so we have narrowed it down to Dwarf rogues are the only good ones in combat.

Halflings are iffy..

and Human/Elf types are trap monkies and not for combat.


Good...I'm glad we narrowed down the point on this one.

I've never ran across a good Halfling Rogue that was non-situational DPS. Have you?

Just stay in the corner and keep out of trouble....the Fiend CLEAVES ya know! ;P

lol I know. Which is why I am surprised anyone would want to take a Rogue into the Shroud.

I am, Rameses!

[Ree]

I'm so glad I spotted this thread!

The other week I got told to help "tank" the big guy! Mind you this is a monumental moment for me because I have a drow trapmonkey squishy pure rogue.

It was a late night run (late for everyone else, my time zone is odd, I always say I'm on with the Aussies and the crazies) and I can't remember who led it, but thank you whoever you were!

I was brought to tears in an earlier run because I had tried to be sneaky and get on his back in part 4, and misjudged the blades and got sliced up (the tears came because my boyfriend told me my actions reflected poorly on rogues everywhere, bad move on his part, never say this. EVER.)

So I got up my courage and decided to try again, and started hacking at him from the back, and the leader told me to come in front and help to make the wall. WHAT??!!! I'm not gonna get yelled at for making believe I'm a tank? I'm gonna actually contribute in a more visible way? I just about fell off my chair (but couldn't cuz I was "tanking" the pit fiend!).

Then I got to do the same thing in part 5! And I didn't die!

These events were made even more novel because I don't have any characters who have ever (EVER) "tanked" the big guy. So my first experience with it was with my drow trapmonkey squishy rogue! (Oh, and she only has 260 or something like that hp, and I had to work super hard just to get her up that high, no comments on how low that is please, I know it's low, and I've learned to work with it)

So thank you random late night raider man, you made one rogue's day!

(I hope I'm spelling rogue right...)

[kyebosh]

...rogues are not known for DPS...

Then, with respect, you don't know the right Rogues
Ran the Shroud a few days ago with a balanced (i.e: not Barb heavy) group, having 2 pure Rogues & a 15/1 Rog/Ftr. Killed Harry in one pass on part 4

Yet I still get declined from parties, but a lot less than I used to. It seems that good leaders are beginning to realise Rogue combat potential & I often get asked if I'm "Trapsmith" or "Combat" before a Party invite. Having said that, it is still a tough class to build/master, so there will always be a wariness about blindly inviting just any Rogue.

[Aesop]

When asked if I'm a trapsmith or Combat... I usually say both... I can hit every trap in the game and I can kill... so what's the issue?

Actually the issue is I have overall sub par equipment because it was a pain leveling up a non guilded rogue (and every other character I have)

Now everyone is complaining about monks and I'm trying to level up two of them

Much like my relationships in the real world I always go for the tough ones. Sadly my inherant charisma, intelligence, good looks and modesty don't have much effect on my game play with random players


Aesop

[sirgog]

You're problem isn't being a rogue, You're problem is ignorant people with a star.

Someone mentioned smoldering cudgels... Well a pure rogue could swing a couple smoldering cudgels at Harry and still out-dps some of the tanks, yellow zeros and all.

Anyway, it's fairly common for ignorant group leaders to decline rogues, second bards, multiclasses, and pretty much anyone who isnt a pure cleric or barbarian. I wouldn't worry about it. In almost every case these are not the groups you want to be in anyway. These are the same group leaders that take their jobs far too seriously... Micromanaging part 1, speaking down to people, overbuffing, and a host off other issues that accompany judgemental and overbearing group leaders.

The real experts dont have to exert themselves over people to overcome their own self-doubt and lack of experience. They a) likely have a rogue and know what kind of dps they are capable of, and b) have the leadership skills to take a variety of party types through the shroud in well under an hour without focusing the spotlight on themselves at all, nevermind the entire time.

Take some notes on who declines you and move on... They are, in fact, doing you a favour.

Dead right.

The number of people that see the Cleric icon next to Numot's name, or the Rogue icon next to Disector's name, and assume 'there's no way they can tank the Fiend' - is astounding. Then, the leader declares that a drow fighter build with 250 HP and wielding nothing but a +3 transmuter gets sent in as a tank.

These are the groups to avoid.

[Erekose]

I have a Holy hvy repeater Xbow of Gtr Evil Outsider bane for Pit fiend or 2 x Rapier of Evil Outsider Banes.
I get about 45-55 back stab every hit on the Pit fiend. Thats every hit. Not including all the extras.
So he ain't the uber Minereal II GA Barb or Two weapon whirling dervish ranger schmo.
He is a back up tank as much as a Battle bard is. But he can throw heal/GH/raise and res scrolls and has evasion to boot!
Do traps on any difficulty (like to see a Ranger skills build get VoD traps on elite).
My rogue is terribly funny and has a great personality.

I wuv my little rogue because he add's flavor to the templated toons grouping around and destroying evil.

[Treerat]

Welcome to online-gaming.

The ones that lead are generally the loud-mouthed idiots ("uber guild" or no) because the people who actually know what they're doing refuse to deal with people who need a babysitter anymore.

I just let karma take it's course. They exclude my paladin or rogue because they aren't the "best" builds (in the minds of the narrow-minded idiots), when they come around begging my wizard to fill a caster slot or asking my cleric to join, or are crying to get an intimidate tank for VoD or hound, I just tell them and their guilds to go to hell.

[toughguyjoe]

A card carrying devout smither of traps. My DPS is ****.

But you know who my DPS climbs up against? Harry. and Sulu or that matter. i use a light repeater which isn't all that great
(+2 holy/pure good)

I bring more silver bolts than i can shoot in an entire shroud run, and stand as far away from either of those two guys as i can. Sneak attacks be damned, i'd rather put up some moderate DEPS and be alive to rez people and heal if need be.

However, if someone doesn't want to take me into their shroud group, i guess thats ok. i'll find another one soon.

The talk of leaders being bad is just all too common these days. You get people who have been told that The Shroud is easy now, and they just assume that if they put up an LFm and take lots of clerics and barbarians that it'll do itself.

I think what some people miss is that you need GOOD PLAYERS first, followed by good toons as a close second.



Its a powerful weapon, knowing what you're doing- William Murderface