Can't decide on how much to splash :)

[Alizar]

Hello everyone,
I want to create a ranger now that the monk has arrived. I have been looking over the forum and was intrigued by Illuminati's Iron Monk build, along with advice from yaga nub and wolfy.
I love pvp so please keep this in mind. I'm thinking of:
12/2/2 ranger pally monk mix
halfling
stats
12 +6 item=18
17 +5 enhancement +6 item +2 tome=30
14 +6 item=20
12 +1 tome=13
15(+1 wis from monk? +2 tome +6 item=24
8 +6item=14

feats
5 feats from 12 ranger
weapon finesse
???? maybe power attack
mobility
spring attack
combat expertise

3 feats from monk
dodge
ICP
OTWF

I'm thinking the 2nd monk is better then a 3rd level of pally since I get a free feat and with the +1 wis from the monk I also get the +1 ac. lvl 15 ranger doesn't entice me too much +2 damage to one monster type.

I may have given myself too many feats here since I can't find a character generator that has included the monk? Please let me know if you see any flaws in this build idea? Any ideas on how I can improve him? What order should I take the classes? I would like to roll this guy tonight :P Please hurry.

Thanks.

[Strakeln]

I've been discussing this with friends on another forum, and I think we have arrived at the conclusion that the two-pally splash is just not worth it. I suggest you take a look at what it gives you and what it costs you and make sure you feel it is a worthwhile investment... especially in this case, where you're trying to get the advantage from two splash classes that are stat-dependent.

Take a look at your build: you're wearing a +6 str, dex, wis, con, and charisma item. That's a lot of slots - half of your non-weapon slots, in fact. I often find myself seeking out stat combo items (like the DQ belt) on pure class characters due to needing/wanting to wear things like sandstorm glasses/seal of the earth/kundarak boots/chaosguardes/helm of freewill/jerky/optics/etc... that problem is compounded on characters with splash classes dependent on stats.

This, combined with the fact that you're not really putting points into charisma to make the pally splash worthwhile, makes me suggest that you drop that portion of the build.

[Xyfiel]

Don't forget your 4 level up points, dex I assume.
Going 3 pally and 1 monk loses 1 ac from wis, but gains it in aura.
You want a higher cha to utilize divine grace.
You get 6 feats for the character. Monk would give 2 in your build.

I would go 12/1/3, drop dex to 16, wis to 14, up cha to 12, and drop otwf.

[Alizar]

Thanks for the quick replies.

I was thinking that the pally 2 would give me LOH's and +2 saves. Not the best but still something since 2 more levels of ranger gets me??? I don't want to drop my dex to make up cha...saves arn't that important to me with this guy.

Strakeln, Your prob right about needing too many slots for stat items lol. Got any other ideas for classes to splash?

Whats wrong with OTWF? 2 rapiers would be nice .

So the monk doesn't get 2 class feats at levels 1 and 2?

Instead of OTWF what should I take?

Thanks guys.

[maddmatt70]

I have played with Illumanti's iron monk a couple of times and it is very solid. I would say that this isn't the monk mod its the ranger/monk mod...

[ShadowFox1978]

I don't think you understand how favored enemies work. A fourth favored enemy at level 15 ranger is not just 2 damage against one monster type. Favored damages stack. First one is +2 on one type, second is +4 on 2 types, third is +6 on three types, etc.

[Soul-Shaker]

First off pvp I never keep in mind nemore due to shroud items. Now that they even nerfed resist/prot stacking, I could only see a hvy guard barb(they can get near 1000hp now and just dr stuff while swinging away while waiting for a guard to fire) or ranged rptr build killing another non-caster where it really matters in pvp (lol **** LSII). Casters would just power word stun since you will be under 450hp. and clrs will defic/searing you to death.

Like StrakeIn has mentioned, I made my finesse ranger planned for monk back in mod5 and knew there was going to be some item slot issues which is why I didnt go pala route. Instead I splashed ftr at the time so that I could fit CE in since 14 cap ment dodge, mob, spring, ic, finesse was all a finesser feats already. I would have gone 1 rog instead if I knew that the monk feats would cover so many feats. Not hard to get high max umd and no cha. Saves I dont really find a issue with 14 starting wis. As for your LoH, itll be really weak since forumla benefits those with higher cha for higher benefit(think it was [10+pala lvl] x cha mod) so 12 x 5 isnt much. While a 1 splash rog could allow heal scrolls.

[Alizar]

I don't think you understand how favored enemies work. A fourth favored enemy at level 15 ranger is not just 2 damage against one monster type. Favored damages stack. First one is +2 on one type, second is +4 on 2 types, third is +6 on three types, etc.

This information along with equipment space limitations makes me think that maybe 15/1 ranger monk might be the better build.

[Alizar]

First off pvp I never keep in mind nemore due to shroud items. Now that they even nerfed resist/prot stacking, I could only see a hvy guard barb(they can get near 1000hp now and just dr stuff while swinging away while waiting for a guard to fire) or ranged rptr build killing another non-caster where it really matters in pvp (lol **** LSII). Casters would just power word stun since you will be under 450hp. and clrs will defic/searing you to death.

Like StrakeIn has mentioned, I made my finesse ranger planned for monk back in mod5 and knew there was going to be some item slot issues which is why I didnt go pala route. Instead I splashed ftr at the time so that I could fit CE in since 14 cap ment dodge, mob, spring, ic, finesse was all a finesser feats already. I would have gone 1 rog instead if I knew that the monk feats would cover so many feats. Not hard to get high max umd and no cha. Saves I dont really find a issue with 14 starting wis. As for your LoH, itll be really weak since forumla benefits those with higher cha for higher benefit(think it was [10+pala lvl] x cha mod) so 12 x 5 isnt much. While a 1 splash rog could allow heal scrolls.

hehe..This is a little confusing. What exactly is a heavy guard? 1000HP..how in the heck do they get it that high? Monk feats would cover so many feats?

I'm not concerned with umd and would prefer to not have any rogue in this build.

[maddmatt70]

hehe..This is a little confusing. What exactly is a heavy guard? 1000HP..how in the heck do they get it that high? Monk feats would cover so many feats?

I'm not concerned with umd and would prefer to not have any rogue in this build.

Soulshaker's first paragraph is solely about pvp. The lightning guard produces a 550-650 damage attack but goes off a small % of the time, but when it does go off its game over in pvp for all but the highest hit point builds which are barbarians. This is one of the guards he is talking about. It is definitely possible to make a 1000 hit point barbarian, but really for the game that is on the gimp side because you are sacrificing so much to get there, but a barbarian with rage above 800 hit points although still not optimum is not totally gimp. Pvp is in bad shape - he doesn't make characters with pvp in mind anymore because the shroud guards has ruined pvp for the melee and power word stun has ruined pvp for the casters not that it was ever great what with searing lights and scorching rays...

1st level and 2nd level monk both get two extra feats which can be taken from a decent feat list. Some people like the umd rogue skill and d6 damage + nice skill point list as well as you can get a decent open lock skill which is always handy. Umd is always helpful for equipping race required equipment - for instance it would sure be a bummer if you couldn't use that w/p rapier rr warforged you just pulled..

[Soul-Shaker]

Thx for clearing that up maddmatt70, was typing in a rush since had to get to work.

Alizar since you dont want to splash 1 rog, only other choices I see for now is 15/1monk like your thinking or splash ftr for extra feats and ftr haste boost and if high enough splash, weapon spec. Could always hold off on deciding on the last class. The route im going on my finesse ranger is 15/1ftr(since made before monks came out) for now. Then if HiPs sucks, 15/1monk/4ftr will be the route I'll go in the future. Or 16/2monk/2ftr if they make tempestII req 16rgr instead of planned 15. but 15/1monk I think is a good place to start.

[Strakeln]

Thanks for the quick replies.

I was thinking that the pally 2 would give me LOH's and +2 saves. Not the best but still something since 2 more levels of ranger gets me??? I don't want to drop my dex to make up cha...saves arn't that important to me with this guy.

Strakeln, Your prob right about needing too many slots for stat items lol. Got any other ideas for classes to splash?

Whats wrong with OTWF? 2 rapiers would be nice .

So the monk doesn't get 2 class feats at levels 1 and 2?

Instead of OTWF what should I take?

Thanks guys.

Favored enemy is not something you should underestimate. It's huge.

Freedom of movement is a spell you are granted at level 14, I believe. A rather handy spell, my melees that can't cast it had to farm for their Kundarak Boots.

If you're set on finding a class to splash, fighter is always good for the feats. Another option is 1-2 levels of sorc/wiz for the shield spell. 2 or 4 minutes of +4 AC with enough mana to keep it running all the time is pretty nice on a character that rarely uses a shield... not to mention the magic/force missile protection. That's pretty heavy multiclassing there, and not for the faint of heart.

I recommend you stick with your ranger/monk concept and dump the pally portion.

[Alizar]

Thanks guys,
I rolled him and decided on 15/1 ranger monk for now. I didn't take monk at level 1 (hope that wasn't a mistake) to get more skill points at creation with ranger. It seems to me that it isn't worth taking monk until the wisdom bonus trumps my light armor bonus (sheild equipped at low levels). Anyone have an idea of what level that will happen?

Thanks for all the advice

[ShadowFox1978]

It is more complex than when your wisdom outstrips the armor+sheild. It is a matter of when your dex+wisdom+bracers will be better than light armor(guessing around level 6, when you get tempest). When you get Im TWF and tempest, there is not much reason to use a sheild, so you have to compare the numbers against a sheildless AC.