Clerics: Levik's or Lorikk's?

[shane1122]

I was a bit disappointed by the first Cleric specific Raid Loot since Gianthold. As most high level clerics are carrying similar gear endgame, the Lorikk's combo would actually be worse than the Levik's combo.

Lorikk
Necklace: +6 Wis, +150 spell points, cuts cost of Empowered Healing 2 spell points
Shield: +7 AC, DR 15, Eternal Faith, Panacea clickie X2
Combo: Greater Devotion VIII

Already have +6 Wis crafted item that gives 300 spell points, as well as many other benefits.
Never use Empowered Heal except on offense and not dedicating necklace slot to cut Empowered
by 2 spell spoints.
MadStone Shield +9 (but only DR 6)
Eternal Faith is on the Reaver Gloves
Carrying a Sup Pot VI item

Levik
Bracers: +6 Strength, +20% to incoming healing
Shield: +9 AC, DR 15, chance to cast Heal oneself when hit, 1d6 Sonic guard
Combo: +3 AC Insight bonus

+20% on incoming healing saves mana for you and other clerics in a raid.
+9 AC, same as Madstone with better DR, chance to be Healed when hit
Free + 3 to AC sounds much better than Greater Devotion

Of course you will need to get tower shield proficiency. I am willing to do that for +12 AC and the other benefits.

-Shane

[Borror0]

You got the two mixed up.

[Inspire]

You Need To Switch Levick And Lorrick In Your Description,

Levick's Combo = Bracers + Tower Shield
Lorrick's Combo = Necklace + Heavy Shield

Personally I Want The Bracers On My Cleric, But Other Than That I Think Ill Go With Lorrick's Combo, Because Devotion 8 Adds A Little *UMPH* To That Mass Heal If Your In A Pinch, However, If Healer's Bounty On Levick's Defender Is Ever Fixed That Will Become The Best Shield In The Game Without A Doubt.

[shane1122]

Fixed, Thanks!
-Shane

[Bronko]

I vote for Lorrick's.

With the state my gear is in on my cleric it would be a valuable asset just to be able to get the necklace alone. The reduced cost of Empowered Healing from Lorrick's Necklace added to the enhancement line for reducing the SP cost (I'm assuming they stack of course) will significantly affect my ability to avoid scrolls/wands and mana pots or conversely to have extra SP left over for some nuking spells or other fun stuff.

Combine it with the shield (so that I can ditch the Madstone) and I'd be one happy little healer. The Greater Devotion VIII would make using Cure Serious Wounds, Mass a viable spell again.

Ironically the **** thing has dropped every single time I have run the Hound, even when I'm not on my cleric. The two times when I have been on my cleric it has been a Ranger that looted it. What's up with Rangers taking Empowered Healing these days!?!

[Inspire]

The two times when I have been on my cleric it has been a Ranger that looted it. What's up with Rangers taking Empowered Healing these days!?!

Dunno Lol, But My Sorc/Rogue/Batman/Paladin Want It Because Pancea Cures Feeblemind

Feeblemind = No UMD

[Bronko]

Dunno Lol, But My Sorc/Rogue/Batman/Paladin Want It Because Pancea Cures Feeblemind

Feeblemind = No UMD

I will personally give the necessary ingredients and help someone craft a tier 2 water/water weapon in the Shroud for three clickies of Panacea in exchange for the necklace next time if that's what it takes.

[Angelus_dead]

Of course you will need to get tower shield proficiency. I am willing to do that for +12 AC and the other benefits.

The majority of clerics are not high AC characters, and would not be interested in spending feat to become such.

If a cleric does want to be a high AC character, then he's going to want Chaosgarde and a Green Steel Longsword of +4 AC.

[maddmatt70]

I wanted and got the necklace. I always have empower healing on and with max enhancements in empower healing and the necklace it now only costs me an additional 2 sp to improve my healing by 50%. The shield I dont want because I dont have the slot for it. Really this is about builds and gear. My cleric right now is a healbot/caster cleric that doesn't care about ac and doesn't have much of an issue of putting herself in harms way... If I were a melee cleric I would probably want different gear which goes without saying...

[shane1122]

The majority of clerics are not high AC characters, and would not be interested in spending feat to become such.

If a cleric does want to be a high AC character, then he's going to want Chaosgarde and a Green Steel Longsword of +4 AC.

Actually, Chaosgarde would drop your AC compared to Levik's combo. Levik's bracers (in combo) +3 insight. Chaosgarde +2 dodge.
Chaogarde gives an additional +2 against Chaotic which is useless as almost all high level content is currently Lawful.

Weapons are another topic altogether. I am not looking to build a super high AC cleric. Just pointing out that the "cleric combo"
would actually gimp most high level clerics since the shield provides less AC than a Madstone or Levik's. The clickie is
a spell clerics have anyway and Eternal Faith is already on the Reaver Gloves.

-Shane

[Auran82]

Doesn't the combo give IMPROVED Devotion VIII or has it been improved again?

[Angelus_dead]

Actually, Chaosgarde would drop your AC compared to Levik's combo. Levik's bracers (in combo) +3 insight. Chaosgarde +2 dodge.

No, it would not. Levik's adds zero AC, because the Insight bonus doesn't stack with the +4 AC on your Green Steel sword. It reduces your AC to less than what Chaosgarde gave you. And before you say "He doesn't have a green steel sword", I already explained that.

Chaogarde gives an additional +2 against Chaotic which is useless as almost all high level content is currently Lawful.

No, it does not.

Weapons are another topic altogether. I am not looking to build a super high AC cleric. Just pointing out that the "cleric combo"
would actually gimp most high level clerics since the shield provides less AC than a Madstone or Levik's. The clickie is

No, it would not. As already explained, most high level clerics do not care about AC. They are likely to consider both combos gimpy for them, because they like spellcasting weapons in both hands.

The uncommon cleric who does care about AC has these choices:
A. Levik Defender +9, Levick Bracer +0, Green Steel +4 = 13
B. Madstone +9, Chaosgarde +2, Green Steen Steel +4 , Dodge feat +1 = 16

Why dodge feat? Because you didn't need Tower Shield Proficiency, so you could get something else.

[moops]

Lorrik's necklace has dropped on just about every run I've done. . .so any one who wants it, don't trade you life away for it

The only time I wear the combo, is sometimes during part 5 of shroud.

The shield is pretty and matches my armor so sometimes I sport that just for looks.

I'm not interested in Levikks at all.

What really disappoints me is that for these items you have to use "2" to get the best of them, and one of them is a sheild. I have already crafted so many combination items that I just have no room for these without sacrificing something else that I really wanted, and I also duel wield 99% of the time.

[samho]

No, it would not. Levik's adds zero AC, because the Insight bonus doesn't stack with the +4 AC on your Green Steel sword. It reduces your AC to less than what Chaosgarde gave you. And before you say "He doesn't have a green steel sword", I already explained that.


No, it does not.


No, it would not. As already explained, most high level clerics do not care about AC. They are likely to consider both combos gimpy for them, because they like spellcasting weapons in both hands.

The uncommon cleric who does care about AC has these choices:
A. Levik Defender +9, Levick Bracer +0, Green Steel +4 = 13
B. Madstone +9, Chaosgarde +2, Green Steen Steel +4 , Dodge feat +1 = 16

Why dodge feat? Because you didn't need Tower Shield Proficiency, so you could get something else.

I believe that the major problem here was -- How many gear slot you can manage to fit such thing on ?

Let me make a brief gear list of an "uncommon" cleric who goes armor route:


Head: Minos Helm ( quite popular choice -- due to Toughness Feat and Heavy Fort )
Trinket: Head of Good Fortune (due to +2 lucky bonus)
Eye:
Neck:
Cloak:
Chest: +5 Mithral Full Plate (not everyone has their Full Plate of Defender)
Off Hand: +5 Mithral Tower Shield
Bracer:
Belt:
Ring(1):
Ring(2):
Boot: Striding 30% boot or Boot of Innocent (or Titan/Dragon Boot)
Hand:
_________________________________________

Now that we have 8 gear slot can insert into this template -- and which item is necessary to fill in these slots ? (assume you are the cleric who's going to maximize your AC while possible)

(1) Greater False Life item (available on belt, ring)
(2) Protection 5 item (available on ring, necklace, cloak, or other spot if you craft greensteel item)
(3) CON 6 item (available on belt, neck, ring)
(4) STR 6 item (available on belt, ring, bracer, glove -- include Levki's Bracer )
(5) DEX 6 item (available on ring, glove, bracer)
(6) WIS 6 item (available on neck, ring, or other spot if you craft greensteel item)

_________________________________________


So you can see we only left 2 slot for something else, like:


Chaosgrade, Chattering Ring, Greater Devotion item, CHA 6 item, Daggertooth's Belt, Stormreaver's Napkin, Intimidate Mod item (like my battle cleric...), Greensteel HP item, Greensteel Spell Point item (while these 2 can be done by including Protection 5 or wisdom 6 in, it does cost a lot more large than it doesn't)



It's clear that if you choice to go the Chaosgrade route, you will have one less item slot to utilize -- you can't have both Chattering Ring and Daggertooth's Belt up, not even mention other useful gear;


So the best AC you can achieve (in this route, you can have a fighter level which can utilize Tower Shield best, and You won't loss a feat to get your tower shield proficiency -- in the other word, people choice another path won't take advantage from dodge feat, because both route can take dodge if they want) was

(A) Levik Defender +9, Levick Bracer +0, Green Steel +4, Chattering Ring +3, Daggertooth's Belt +1 = 17
(B) Madstone/+5 Mithral Tower Shield +9, Chaosgarde +2, Green Steen Steel +4 , Chattering Ring +3 = 18

then when he choice to use other weapon than Greensteel one (since you can't craft vorpal, super Potency weapon, WoP, paralyser, Spell Penetration, arcane lore and such):

(a) Levik Defender +9, Levick Bracer +3, non-greensteel-weapon+0, Chattering Ring +3, Daggertooth's Belt +1 = 16
(b) Madstone/+5 Mithral Tower Shield +9, Chaosgarde +2, non-greensteel-weapon+0, Chattering Ring +3 = 14

And Levik's Bracer also give you 20% more healing from any healing source !!




Of course, you can always find some solution to remove some of the *necessary* item from my list like casting Bear's Endurance or Owl's Wisdom to keep your wisdom / con up -- actually I has to do something similar on my 2 melee spec battle cleric due to I really can't fit such stat item in their gear set up; one of them need to cast Eagle's Spender, while another one need to cast Owl's Wisdom or Bear's Endurance. But then, my point was, if someone else's cleric want to go for AC mode, Chaosgrade wasn't the necessary way to go -- it may give you less AC than you expect.

[Qzipoun]

Ironically, my fighter uses the Champion and my cleric uses the Defender, people are always confused when I tell them my fighter is running around with the cleric shield.

[Guildmaster_Kadish]

How about you don't use the full combo...

Just use the fighter shield (for chance of heals/sonic guard/AC) and keep your chaosgarde on. That way you get the better shield and the better AC. Plus you can still do the necklace if you like empower healing. All you're missing out on is +3 insight AC (doesn't stack with shroud item) or Greater Devotion VIII (not a big deal to just do level 7- healing spells... MCSW, MCMW, Heal, etc.).

[Turial]

Levik
Bracers: +6 Strength, +20% to incoming healing
+20% on incoming healing saves mana for you and other clerics in a raid.
+9 AC, same as Madstone with better DR, chance to be Healed when hit
Free + 3 to AC sounds much better than Greater Devotion

Of course you will need to get tower shield proficiency. I am willing to do that for +12 AC and the other benefits.

-Shane

Its only a savings if you and other clerics remember to use spells that cost less then heal but will hit for the same amount of damage with the increase to incoming positive cure/heals. If you continue to use heal on yourself, and don't have a large hp pool, you will start to over heal which isnt a desireable outcome.

[Gratch]

I've seen the necklace drop at least 6 times... never the shield. (about 25 runs so far).

Both my ac fighter and cleric want the large shield... though I wouldn't roll on it with the fighter if there's clerics wanting it. Just too much DR to consider any other shield...

Is the recent version of it actually mithril (i.e., 5%asf and no skill penalty) as was listed in the patch? The definitive items SS looks to be the old version.

[samho]

How about you don't use the full combo...

Just use the fighter shield (for chance of heals/sonic guard/AC) and keep your chaosgarde on. That way you get the better shield and the better AC.

Like I state -- You only got better AC WHEN you have your greensteel weapon (which has tier 3 Insight AC bonus) on your main hand, compare to full set of Levik. You got worse AC when you switch off your greensteel weapon (with +4 Insight AC). On the other hand, if you have 1 other item was necessary to fit in your gear setup, you can have Chattering Ring and such to fit in with Levik's set (because it combine with STR6 gear), but you can't do it with Chaosgrade (because it eat one slot up).

The primary issue for cleric was we usually have to put our Wisdom gear on, unlike traditional AC type melee -- so we need one more slot than those pure melee.

[Guildmaster_Kadish]

I believe that the major problem here was -- How many gear slot you can manage to fit such thing on ?

Let me make a brief gear list of an "uncommon" cleric who goes armor route:


Head: Minos Helm ( quite popular choice -- due to Toughness Feat and Heavy Fort )
Trinket: Head of Good Fortune (due to +2 lucky bonus)
Eye:
Neck:
Cloak:
Chest: +5 Mithral Full Plate (not everyone has their Full Plate of Defender)
Off Hand: +5 Mithral Tower Shield
Bracer:
Belt:
Ring(1):
Ring(2):
Boot: Striding 30% boot or Boot of Innocent (or Titan/Dragon Boot)
Hand:
_________________________________________

Now that we have 8 gear slot can insert into this template -- and which item is necessary to fill in these slots ? (assume you are the cleric who's going to maximize your AC while possible)

(1) Greater False Life item (available on belt, ring)
(2) Protection 5 item (available on ring, necklace, cloak, or other spot if you craft greensteel item)
(3) CON 6 item (available on belt, neck, ring)
(4) STR 6 item (available on belt, ring, bracer, glove -- include Levki's Bracer )
(5) DEX 6 item (available on ring, glove, bracer)
(6) WIS 6 item (available on neck, ring, or other spot if you craft greensteel item)

_________________________________________


So you can see we only left 2 slot for something else, like:


Chaosgrade, Chattering Ring, Greater Devotion item, CHA 6 item, Daggertooth's Belt, Stormreaver's Napkin, Intimidate Mod item (like my battle cleric...), Greensteel HP item, Greensteel Spell Point item (while these 2 can be done by including Protection 5 or wisdom 6 in, it does cost a lot more large than it doesn't)

You don't need a +6 strength item (divine power) or a protection item (shield of faith or mineral II item). You also don't need a separate slot for wis 6, because you can put that on a hitpoint or spellpoint item without even going to tier III (or, you can do P/N/X and not worry about the dualshard so it doesn't cost any more larges). Furthermore, you can take of the greater false life if you've got a Pouch of Jerky (recitation's +2 luck bonus doesn't stack with the Head anyways).

Not counting the pouch or a mineral II item (since those are pretty tough to get), you've then got four spots for: Chaosgarde, Stormreaver's Napkin, Greater Devotion Item, Greensteel HP/SP item. You can switch out the Greensteel item that doesn't have wisdom or the napkin for something special like an intimidate item or a daggertooth belt if you aren't a dwarf.

It's clear that if you choice to go the Chaosgrade route, you will have one less item slot to utilize -- you can't have both Chattering Ring and Daggertooth's Belt up, not even mention other useful gear;

Not really. See above. Besides, if you're a dwarf or a monk splasher (the best options for ac), you likely won't really need the daggertooth belt.

then when he choice to use other weapon than Greensteel one (since you can't craft vorpal, super Potency weapon, WoP, paralyser, Spell Penetration, arcane lore and such)

This is why the monk splash is really the way to go for a cleric who wants AC--you don't need a shield, and can put your potency/spell pen offhand with the greensteel still on.

But then, my point was, if someone else's cleric want to go for AC mode, Chaosgrade wasn't the necessary way to go -- it may give you less AC than you expect.

In certain specific situations, yes.