Where are your bars?

[DoctorWhofan]

What he was basically saying if you have your monitor at the correct resolution then the game and the hot bars will be at the correct portions that you ae looking for. Since your bars are taking up more screen real estate then they should, then you are not playing at the correct resolution your monitor native resolution or optimal resolution.

andwe are saying, we tried all the options DDO gives us, but no go.

[miceelf88]

No, he is saying that the bars take up a certain amount of space, and that if I mess with my monitor setup I can make them bigger (which seemed to be what he thought I had done, when he thought my concern was the absolute size of the bars, not their relative size). But they DO take up a certain amount of space, even on the right setup, and a constant amount of space, and on a monitor of the size I am using (13 inch), they are necessarily going to take up a bigger proportion of the space than on a 17 or 19 inch.

I get what he's saying (I think). i don't think it's what you're saying. You seem to be saying that they'll take up the same proportion on all different sized monitors, if only I set them correctly, and that is NOT what he was saying (again, if I understand him correctly)

Strakelin, does that make sense? My working assumptions are:

1. Assuming no suboptimal setting (and mine is optimized), the bars take up a constant amount of space in absolute terms.
2. Because the bars take up a constant amount of space, the larger the monitor, the smaller the proportion of space the bars will take up.
3. Getting a bigger monitor would yield bars that take up the same amount of space in absolute terms, but a smaller proportion of the screen space.

is that accurate?

[krud]

When I pull up the resolution screen on my options in DDO, i have two options: 960X--- and 1240X--- (I don't remember the exact numbers, but that's roughly it). I select the larger of the two options (I tried selecting the 960 thing and that was far worse). So, I am not sure what you mean about not using my monitor's native resolution. I am using the highest resolution available to me. Someone earlier said that the size of the bars is a constant, so that as resolution increases, the proportion of space taken up by the bars goes down. That seems to be what Strakelin is saying now.
.

What's the highest resolution you are able to set your windows desktop to? A bigger monitor won't necessarily make things better if your graphics card won't let you set the resolution higher. You'll just end up with the same setup as now, only everything will be bigger, including the hotbars. Maybe you could upgrade the video card to better handle higher resolutions? I did that on my desktop - I kept the original 17" monitor and upgraded my video card instead.

edit* nm - I see you have a 13" monitor. Your card may not be the limiting factor afterall.

[DoctorWhofan]

No, he is saying that the bars take up a certain amount of space, and that if I mess with my monitor setup I can make them bigger (which seemed to be what he thought I had done, when he thought my concern was the absolute size of the bars, not their relative size). But they DO take up a certain amount of space, even on the right setup, and a constant amount of space, and on a monitor of the size I am using (13 inch), they are necessarily going to take up a bigger proportion of the space than on a 17 or 19 inch.

I get what he's saying (I think). i don't think it's what you're saying. You seem to be saying that they'll take up the same proportion on all different sized monitors, if only I set them correctly, and that is NOT what he was saying (again, if I understand him correctly)

Strakelin, does that make sense? My working assumptions are:

1. Assuming no suboptimal setting (and mine is optimized), the bars take up a constant amount of space in absolute terms.
2. Because the bars take up a constant amount of space, the larger the monitor, the smaller the proportion of space the bars will take up.
3. Getting a bigger monitor would yield bars that take up the same amount of space in absolute terms, but a smaller proportion of the screen space.

is that accurate?

I understand that, but I am at optimal settings for mine. Then they say we aren't running at optimal. Now I am questioning if the moniter itself has anything to do with it. Which it does. However, Optimal isn't giving more space bucause the screen is too small. Why say that in the first place? I thought I did something wrong with my moniter. Now I am just confused. I have it where the bars are at the smallest, but still they say I can get them smaller.

[VonBek]

Adjust item 3: Getting a xxxx monitor with a greater display resolution would yield bars that take up the same amount of space in absolute terms (display terms), but a smaller proportion of the screen space.

Monitors screens come in various sizes. 17", 19", 24", etc... Screens can host various resolutions 800x600, 1024x768, 1280x1024, 1600x1000, among many others. Resolution is a measurement of pixels, displayed on your screen, the first number horizontal, the second vertical.

The Hotbar icons measure about 35 pixels square.

Change your display resolution to 800x600 and the icons now take up more of the display. Change your display resolution to 1600 x 1200 and the icon uses less of the available display area. The icons don't get larger or smaller, that's just an illusion based on the relative amount of space they use when displayed.

[VonBek]

andwe are saying, we tried all the options DDO gives us, but no go.

Within DDO, you can set the game to adapt to your display - if you've an 1280x1024 display, the game might "optimize" itself to show 1020x768, and morph that to the size of 1280x1024, based on whatever calculations it deems useful. You can override it in the games display settings.

[DoctorWhofan]

Adjust item 3: Getting a xxxx monitor with a greater display resolution would yield bars that take up the same amount of space in absolute terms (display terms), but a smaller proportion of the screen space.

Monitors screens come in various sizes. 17", 19", 24", etc... Screens can host various resolutions 800x600, 1024x768, 1280x1024, 1600x1000, among many others. Resolution is a measurement of pixels, displayed on your screen, the first number horizontal, the second vertical.

The Hotbar icons measure about 35 pixels square.

Change your display resolution to 800x600 and the icons now take up more of the display. Change your display resolution to 1600 x 1200 and the icon uses less of the available display area. The icons don't get larger or smaller, that's just an illusion based on the relative amount of space they use when displayed.

That's what i thought. So a new moniter is needed, my settings are right for my moniter at this time. Though i knew most of what you said already, the point has been clarified. Goes by the size ofthe pixal and how many pixels are on the screen atwhatever settings you have. So If my moniter can only handle so much, that iswhat shows up in DDO in Optimal settings, right? Any other graphics resolution is less pixels on the screen, meaning "larger bars" that are not actually large, but the same amount of pixels makethem up and to format to your screen the pixels are "larger" thus giving you a "big" bar.

Did I grasp that in layman idiot's terms correctly?

[DoctorWhofan]

Within DDO, you can set the game to adapt to your display - if you've an 1280x1024 display, the game might "optimize" itself to show 1020x768, and morph that to the size of 1280x1024, based on whatever calculations it deems useful. You can override it in the games display settings.

did that, too. Tried all the the options I had. Still no joy.

[krud]

I understand that, but I am at optimal settings for mine. Then they say we aren't running at optimal. Now I am questioning if the moniter itself has anything to do with it. Which it does. However, Optimal isn't giving more space bucause the screen is too small. Why say that in the first place? I thought I did something wrong with my moniter. Now I am just confused. I have it where the bars are at the smallest, but still they say I can get them smaller.

What it boils down to is that a hotbar is ~400x40 pixels in size. This does not change, ever. As you set your resoultion higher, that 400x40 pixel hotbar will appear smaller and smaller on your screen, because it takes up less space in proportion to the total screen resolution, i.e. If you're set at 800x600 then a hotbar will go across half your screen. At 1280x960 it will only go across 1/3 of your screen (thus appearing smaller).

[Theboz]

That's what i thought. So a new moniter is needed, my settings are right for my moniter at this time. Though i knew most of what you said already, the point has been clarified. Goes by the size ofthe pixal and how many pixels are on the screen atwhatever settings you have. So If my moniter can only handle so much, that iswhat shows up in DDO in Optimal settings, right? Any other graphics resolution is less pixels on the screen, meaning "larger bars" that are not actually large, but the same amount of pixels makethem up and to format to your screen the pixels are "larger" thus giving you a "big" bar.

Did I grasp that in layman idiot's terms correctly?

yes, but what type of monitor do you have, if we knew that we could tell you what it should be at and if you really need a new monitor or not, if you are happy with the 13 inch, no need for a new monitor

[DoctorWhofan]

yes, but what type of monitor do you have, if we knew that we could tell you what it should be at and if you really need a new monitor or not, if you are happy with the 13 inch, no need for a new monitor

a 17 inch crappy I-got-free-with-computer-look-it's-widescreen-for-no-extra-charge-purchase back up moniter. My good one died like six months ago. That was a 21 inch widescreen. I could fit 4+ bars accross the screen. Andthey LOOKED smaller ie higher resolution

[Theboz]

some examples of screen resolutions as done on my 22 inch monitor(native resolution of 1680x1050)


800x600



1024x768

[Strakeln]

When I pull up the resolution screen on my options in DDO, i have two options: 960X--- and 1240X--- (I don't remember the exact numbers, but that's roughly it). I select the larger of the two options (I tried selecting the 960 thing and that was far worse). So, I am not sure what you mean about not using my monitor's native resolution. I am using the highest resolution available to me. Someone earlier said that the size of the bars is a constant, so that as resolution increases, the proportion of space taken up by the bars goes down. That seems to be what Strakelin is saying now.

I may not have been clear. When I expressed concern about the size of my bar icons, I was really concerned about the RELATIVE size of them, compared with everything else. I wondered if this was because of the small size of my monitor, and if getting a bigger monitor would make my bars RELATIVELY (not absolutely) smaller. A couple of people suggested this to be the case, and what you say seems to be agreeing with them.

Where Strakelin and I disconnected was that he seemed to think I wanted to know how to make my bars actually smaller and thought I was misinterpreting the screen shots, which made the bars look smaller. I understood what he was suggesting, but that wasn't my problem, because I was focused on making them *smaller relative to everything else*, not making them actually smaller. I understood how screenshots worked. I was focused on the proportion of space the bars took. I can see how the way I phrased it was unclear. But the goal was not to shrink the bars, but to make them take up a smaller proportion of the space. Strakelin, if I understand you and others corretly, a bigger monitor would make that happen.

Sorry for the confusion.

You have it right, a bigger monitor will increase the "screen space:icon size" ratio. Make sure you have a video card that can handle the increased size of the monitor.

A monitor's "native" resolution is how many pixels it has on the entire screen (say, 1280x1024). This is generally the optimal resolution for a setup (except in cases of underpowered video cards), and what I would expect DDO to default to when you tell it to detect optimal settings (not sure they do, just what I would expect).

I wasn't necessarily directing my responses to you (I wasn't sure if you were on the same page as me or not), there were a few comments throughout the thread (talking about small icons).

[Strakeln]

What he was basically saying if you have your monitor at the correct resolution then the game and the hot bars will be at the correct portions that you ae looking for. Since your bars are taking up more screen real estate then they should, then you are not playing at the correct resolution your monitor native resolution or optimal resolution.

hehe, not quite.

I was saying that the physical size of the bars/icons will be the same regardless of what monitor you are running on, so long as you are at the native resolution. Meaning, if you are running at native resolution on your 20" and I'm at native on my 30", then we both take out a ruler, hold it up to our monitors, the icons will be the same size.

However, the available screen space does NOT remain the same. In other words, running at a smaller resolution does not shrink everything to fit to your screen, it only displays what it can fit. Purchasing a bigger monitor results in an increase in your character's peripheral vision by providing more screen real estate.

Let's see if I can say this in numbers. Say you have a 20" and I have a 30". We both measure our icons and find that they are 1/2" by 1/2" for both of us. Now, measuring physical width of the display areas of the monitors, we find that your 20" has about 16.5" left to right to fit 1280 pixels. Measuring my 30" monitor shows that I have about 25" of display space left to right, fitting in 2560 pixels.

What this means is that width-wise, I see twice as much in any given screen than you do. So say a person is at the very edge of your screen:
|P-----------------------------|

For me, they will appear here:
|-----P----------------------------------------------------|

See how I have the extra space between the edge of the screen and the person?

In summary: while playing at a non-native resolution will artificially compress your available screen space, the "screen space : icon size" ratio is dependent on the resolution setting itself as well, regardless of whether or not it is native.

Wow that's a lot of gobblteygook.

[VonBek]

a 17 inch crappy I-got-free-with-computer-look-it's-widescreen-for-no-extra-charge-purchase back up moniter. My good one died like six months ago. That was a 21 inch widescreen. I could fit 4+ bars accross the screen. Andthey LOOKED smaller ie higher resolution

This suggests your computer already has a graphics package that can take advantage of a monitor with greater resolution.

[DoctorWhofan]

This suggests your computer already has a graphics package that can take advantage of a monitor with greater resolution.

It's the moniter. Sigh. I could have boaught a new moniter, butwe opted for better videocards. THe game looks great and no lag on my side anymore, but...I play clerics!!! I need bars!! Time to drop some pennies into the bank, again!

[VonBek]

A monitor's "native" resolution is how many pixels it has on the entire screen (say, 1280x1024). This is generally the optimal resolution for a setup (except in cases of underpowered video cards), and what I would expect DDO to default to when you tell it to detect optimal settings (not sure they do, just what I would expect).

Yep! LCD monitors use transistors to form pixels. If the manufacturer built the flat panel at 1280x1024 transistors, then 1280x1024 = native resolution. The monitor will do it's best work when the windows display resolution = the manufacturer's native resolution. If asked to run a different resolution than the native resolution, the screen may display unclear images, distorted edges, and other eyesores as it compensates for the disparity. It's particularly bad with text and fine line images.

In our case, if the graphics chipset isn't up to the task, the DDO client will compensate by setting the "optimal" game resolution lower than the maximum resolution/native resolution reducing load on the video card or embedded chip. In this instance, "optimal" might be livable, or craptacular, depending on the the person's expectations.

[Strakeln]

Hey folks,

I had a thought. Before I got this monster monitor, I was also in search of a way to shrink icons/hotbars. I couldn't find anything, but I did find something close: the ddolite skin. It makes a lot of things (such as hotbar borders) transparent, which opens up a bit of screen space.

It was pretty easy to install (essentially an extract then put the files in a specific location), then you just select the skin from the in-game options menu. I did perceive a load time slowdown on the characters I enabled the skin for - especially on things like opening windows (inventory, char sheet) for the first time for that session... but my computer was very outdated, so it may be fine on a machine that isn't 7+ years old.

Here's where I got the goods from: http://www.lotrointerface.com/downloads/cat37.html There's some instructions around these forums somewhere.

[Gum]

[elderon_Lafeet]