Ok explain to me again why Orthons have such high AC...

[Aspenor]

But you get better.....

Haven't done it since the Big Red Harry nerf, but the Shroud on elite used to be a party wipe in the making unless you have a well balanced and coordinated group, it might still be.

Even the best parties will chug mana pots and use Anniversary cakes for a solitary completion, or at least they used to.

[Merkinsal]

As a side note I like that the devs have made a raid where a tank can truly shine. I've always thought tanks were a highly under-rated, under-utilized and unappreciated resource in ddo. Since this is not a glamour role per se and so not many really know what one is, I have to wonder if some of these pugs having big trouble are not bring them along?

Someone mentioned that a good raid party needed a sorc or two with heighten. What are the sorcs using in parties you guys have seen?

[Aspenor]

Someone mentioned that a good raid party needed a sorc or two with heighten. What are the sorcs using in parties you guys have seen?

Buffs, debuffs, and heightened web. Those are a sorcerer's primary roles in VoD.

In a highly useful and alternative tactic, you can use a warforged tank to hold Sally's aggro and have a sorcerer with reconstruct loaded keep him up, with no need to remove the healing curse since it does not affect repair spells. In this case I'd have 2 sorcs, one in the healing role and the other in the webbing role.

[Yaga_Nub]

Buffs, debuffs, and heightened web. Those are a sorcerer's primary roles in VoD.

In a highly useful and alternative tactic, you can use a warforged tank to hold Sally's aggro and have a sorcerer with reconstruct loaded keep him up, with no need to remove the healing curse since it does not affect repair spells. In this case I'd have 2 sorcs, one in the healing role and the other in the webbing role.

Or a wiz using reconstruct scrolls and spells.

[Merkinsal]

Indeed, that's even more likely if the dead guy had been the main tank, and his death and losing aggro had been the reason everyone else died. It's possible that he was the first to die, was raised, and then the others all died before he accepted.

That is something I would like to have seen, not first hand you understand. I think (again) the game should have a spectator feature with a floating camera and we could look in on groups doing quests. That would of course take some of the first hand, first time experience, out of the mix for those who choose, and of course reveal closely held strategies and tactics, but would be a blast none the less.

[Aspenor]

Or a wiz using reconstruct scrolls and spells.

No. I don't want to run with your crappy wf wizard, Yaga!!! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!

[baddax]

Doesn't look too armored up.. I see lots of holes.

Ok you tell this guy he only has a 28 AC!

[Merkinsal]

"Hey You! You only have 29 ac"

*emote* run away run away

[Durack]

from the Fiendish Codex
(part 1)

[Durack]

(part 2 )


8( pics wont display

here's a link for orthon out of the fiendish codex
http://www.inthecore.com/ddo/modules...iewtopic&t=576

[GlassCannon]

I hope you are joking about this. Most players rarely die once in a night, much less one quest.

You made a major mistake: You took the whole thing entirely too seriously

Yes, VoD is a "You are supposed to die at least once" type quest, and not dying is not easy. A permadeath group wouldn't even make it TO the quest, however, due to the insane lag that happens when Teleporting monsters start pathing all over the d@mn map(freezing everyone in place for 10-45 seconds per tick of movement and combat, purely server side latency). As for dying elsewhere, so long as you aren't Yaga, you should be just fine staying alive.

[GlassCannon]

Its a trick question. Whoever cast the resurection would have thrown it on someone who could res others in the party such as a bard, sorc or cleric (in which case there would be two clerics not one) To say the one cleric would res a melee to draw agro from the orthon seems a stretch. In fact, two clerics would keep each other healed while raising the rest of the party. I dont know about you, but I always res clerics first. How do you do it?

Res the melee who has Rings(or crafted True Raise items), and tell him to take aggro before realizing you are the last remaining cleric, then panic and toss some more raises around at healers... usually. The main tank is the one needed to take aggro again so order can be reestablished. Usually said tank is a Warforged Barbarian with a nil Intimidate score. Upon accepting the Raise, the Negative Level b**lsh*t drops hit to-hit low enough that he can't deal enough damage to even get Suulomades' attention before the party wipes...

[spyderwolf]

I seem to run with parties of late that simply do not have any gear worth a darn, or don't know what it means to "switch weapons". I tend to excessively outkill the entire party with my Monk, for example.... that or the Rogue Pure gets all the kills with his nasty bonus before weapons are factored in. That said, my Monk can't hit the blasted things on any less than a 19(crit).

Due to this, the Shroud run wiped. We beat everything but the Orthon, which had an AC too high for anyone to touch(no Bard, and don't tell me that's a problem... sometimes you just can't find one), so we put the entire party on it and by the time we rolled enough criticals to hit it and make it fall, everything else had full HP.... in Vision of Destruction, we were handling the main guy and the devils OK, just spending lots of resources(total of 1500 Heal scrolls and 400 Reconstructs, in addition to 20 Major Mnemonics)... then the Orthons came out again and wiped us. The first time we were fully buffed, the last, we had nothing left. Their AC was too high and they mauled us pretty quickly. Edit3: The VoD run was done with my Warforged Tempest Ranger(Thus the Reconstructs), using weapons gathered over a 2 year period that were dealing healthy DPS... enough to constantly grab aggro off the barbarians. He does not have Greensteel gear.



Edit2: Don't brag that your guild can beat it no problem. PuGs need to be able to do the thing too, with experienced members that know their class and play well... but are not twinked out to the absolute maximum this game allows at this point. Else, we would run it once every 6 months for resource's sake, and ignore the 3 day timer.

in vod elite i was hitting them fine on my dual wield 28 point human fighter that was using +1 weapons on the orthons...he has a 28 str.....just using +1 holy burst rapiers of pure good and wasnt having any difficutlies on elite.. so i find it kinda hard that your group was having that hard of a time hitting them...if your a wf ranger im assuming you have PA. and the aps for it. so you take a -8 to both hands.....turn power attack off then try...an extra +8 to hit can mean worlds of difference.

[spyderwolf]

You really need to stop being such a jerk, man. Seriously.

As for dying, it is a natural part of DDO, especially in Raid environments. If your character never dies, you are cheating. Trying not to die in a quest designed to wipe the party a few times regardless equipment or skill is utterly silly and pointless. Learning to recover from a completely buffless state(often 5-8 times in a single instance of VoD) is what is important in these circumstances.


On the MAIN TOPIC, however, Orthon AC is only half the battle. The other half is the fact hat their DR is only beaten by certain weapons that are not easily found, especially by the new class(which has buggy weapon systems). This means that maybe 1 or 2 people in the party actually get red numbers on the things. If the party is excessively twinked all to hell and back with gear that took over 9,000 hours of farming and crafting and trading and buying from plat farmers to get, then I'd expect things to go smoothly. Otherwise, it's a bit of a problem.

umm any good aligned weapon will bypass their DR. so a +1 holy anyhting will go through it...how is that hard to find? and if your wiping at all maybe you should reconsider the party makeup and/or the group memebers and see if your really up to the raid. a well put together , decently outfitted group should never ever wipe in vod on normal. and if your saying that the only people who are beating this raid without wiping have spent 9000 hours farming or they broke the user agreement and bought plat or items, then id think its say to say your an idiot if thats not what your saying then i stand corrected but just becuase you or the groups you have been in for it cant do it, dont degrade the peopel who can.