My take on Mod 7 - that was your Ftr love...

[Cold_Stele]

Firstly forgive me if this was discussed way back but I've been away a couple of months.

On coming back to the game I'm immediately struck by what has and hasn't changed in the game -

1. Intimidation went to a 6 second timer.

2. AC went up another 2 points.

3. Amongst the new raid loot were bracers/tower shields with healing amplification.

4. There were no new enhancements or feats to improve Ftrs.

5. Crit Rage remains unchanged.


It seems to me obvious that mod 7 was all the Ftr love you're going to get...


The mod 4 enhancement system pigeon-holed all Ftrs as Intimi-Tanks and the devs seem content to continue with this philosophy.

So now Ftrs have two choices - you get to be a second rate DPS/TWF build (with the exception of 6 level ranger splashes), or you get to be first rate Tank.

I consider myself lucky as my THF DPS toon also maxed his Intimidate skill - it's probably time to burn some shards and end up with something close to Riot's/Borro's build...

If you went DPS and didn't take Intimidate - you gotta face facts that your build's always gonna be sub-optimal

[Aesop]

Devs have stated that they are going to be doing Tactical Feats (as Enhancements for FIghters)as well as some Fighter PrEs soon... possibly next mod.

There have been a few threads about other Feats we'd like to see added in and hopefully a dev has poked through a few of them


Aesop

[Varr]

This always kills me. Give me a 0 pt build, thats right a human with all 8's for starting stats, and let me gear tweek it. Then let me level like everyone else, with enhancments, and I will end up with a very playable character past level 2. I dont even care the class. Productive and fun do not have to be optimal. Usefull is not only found in the leet.

Some class has to do the most dps, some class has to heal the best, some class has to survive the best, some class has to buff the best. Taking one class and trying to leep frog some other is pointless. You can play a fighter many fun ways, two weapon, sword n board, two handed..........a slasher or blugeoner, a triper or a stunner. 58 vs 61 ac.........+35 vs +41 to hit..........all shades of grey.

I will be the first to admit, Im really responding for the first time to 2874 posts about "my class needs more .....blah........ cause it is second to class b." So dont take it personaly cold, your post is one of the most reasonable, just cant imagine with all the incredible gear.........loot items, and shroud weapons.......even random drops, how people can dislike their class so much so often. There are so many easy ways to make your toon powerfull enough to chop up mobs and have fun doing it.

Intimdate was hugly improved as a side note, and this update was really monk focused so I wasnt expecting much fighter focus. Again want to apologize for taking the other side of the fence so strongly, has more to do with forum general class self interest and negitivity than your particular post, you are just the lucky one I responded to.

[adamkatt]

Fighters have always been messed up... They cant cast thier own resists!

[Angelus_dead]

Devs have stated that they are going to be doing Tactical Feats (as Enhancements for FIghters)as well as some Fighter PrEs soon... possibly next mod.

My guesses/hopes for Fighter specialty enhancements are
* Dwarven Defender (opened to non-dwarf fighters or non-fighter dwarves)
* Duelist / Swashbuckler
* Samurai

[Aesop]

My guesses/hopes for Fighter specialty enhancements are
* Dwarven Defender (opened to non-dwarf fighters or non-fighter dwarves)
* Duelist / Swashbuckler
* Samurai

I'd agree about he Defender
duelist is a little twitchy because its really closer to a rogue class then a fighter one... but maybe
I think something like Kensai is likely (which is sorta like a Samurai only different


probably a Weapon Master type PrE in place of duelist would be my guess


Aesop

[Ralmeth]

My guesses/hopes for Fighter specialty enhancements are
* Dwarven Defender (opened to non-dwarf fighters or non-fighter dwarves)
* Duelist / Swashbuckler
* Samurai

Oooh...I so want to make a Duelist / Swashbuckler, I real swashbuckler PrC and not just a Fighter / Rogue mix that I make up myself. It just won't work if they don't introduce cool swashbuckler clothing

[Angelus_dead]

Oooh...I so want to make a Duelist / Swashbuckler, I real swashbuckler PrC and not just a Fighter / Rogue mix that I make up myself. It just won't work if they don't introduce cool swashbuckler clothing

Yes, or as a start, they could allow some of the existing Padded Armor outfit to come on robes. Many of the designs that are used for Padded Armor in DDO look no different from what unarmored characters are wearing in the D&D books.

[Angelus_dead]

probably a Weapon Master type PrE in place of duelist would be my guess

Yes, Weapon Master had been an earlier assumption of mine.

But thinking about it, that would be pretty unbalanced, because people would only go towards the weapons that are already most powerful: khopesh or falchion (or SOS/Deathnip, if you have them). That's why I think a Samurai specialty would be a better choice- it would be focused on using the Katana (AKA Bastard Sword), which is a weapon currently in hardly any demand in DDO. They could gain abilities that would bring the Bastard up to the power of the khopesh, plus some other benefits.

[Cold_Stele]

Does anyone have a link to the dev's stating they're definitely going to be adding Ftr PrE's? Like I said I've been away a couple of months and I've missed a lot. Sure we all want Weapon Masters, Dwarven Defenders, etc. but I stopped wishing for something that's never gonna happen a long time ago. If anyone can say otherwise I'd be more than happy to reassess my opinion.

Don't get me wrong with the purpose of my post though - nowhere here am I grumbling or crying nerf... I'm just saying that as far as build optimization goes (and this is a Ftr build optimization forum right?) - there's only really one optimal build type for Ftrs and I see that getting reinforced, not changed...

Stele

[yankonis0]

Yes, Weapon Master had been an earlier assumption of mine.

But thinking about it, that would be pretty unbalanced, because people would only go towards the weapons that are already most powerful: khopesh or falchion (or SOS/Deathnip, if you have them). That's why I think a Samurai specialty would be a better choice- it would be focused on using the Katana (AKA Bastard Sword), which is a weapon currently in hardly any demand in DDO. They could gain abilities that would bring the Bastard up to the power of the khopesh, plus some other benefits.

That's one thing that I dislike about DnD, some weapons are just better then other's. I hate to say it, but DnD is in need of a some weapon normalization.

[maddmatt70]

Does anyone have a link to the dev's stating they're definitely going to be adding Ftr PrE's? Like I said I've been away a couple of months and I've missed a lot. Sure we all want Weapon Masters, Dwarven Defenders, etc. but I stopped wishing for something that's never gonna happen a long time ago. If anyone can say otherwise I'd be more than happy to reassess my opinion.

Don't get me wrong with the purpose of my post though - nowhere here am I grumbling or crying nerf... I'm just saying that as far as build optimization goes (and this is a Ftr build optimization forum right?) - there's only really one optimal build type for Ftrs and I see that getting reinforced, not changed...

Stele

The fighter tactical feats are actually slated to come out for the summer update (I believe this was in the June news release). They have stated they are working on fighter and pally pre which I am unsure if it will occur for mod 8 but I think they might have said it would somewhere in the forums here.

I agree with you that they have pigeonholed fighters into intimidate tanks and it looks like possibly after the summer update perhaps tactical combat characters as well. My fighter also has nothing to do with either of these two character types and really shouldn't have to according to pnp where fighters are excellent damage dealers. This is a very odd time for fighters. Robe wearing rangers and monks (thanks to gear like the icy rainment) can get a higher ac and better saves then a fighter so an intimdate tank at the moment is actually better served splashing a fighter level for the intimidate skill and going with some sort of ranger/monk hybrid. The tactical feats are not here yet so barbarians et all are actually better at tactical combat then fighters and finally the fighter should basically be on par with the other classes when it comes to dps and historically they were pretty solid dps combatants in ddo at least that was the case up until crit rage and then the tempest enhancements came on the scene, but right now not so much. DDO has even increased pally dps somewhat and rogue dps somewhat as well this mod, but the fighter's dps hasn't increased since the cap was at 12th level (mod 3) either in terms of feats or enhancements.

[maddmatt70]

My guesses/hopes for Fighter specialty enhancements are
* Dwarven Defender (opened to non-dwarf fighters or non-fighter dwarves)
* Duelist / Swashbuckler
* Samurai

So every offensive fighter has to wield a bastard sword - that would annoy me to no end. I have a dwarven fighter who uses axes and an elven archer that is primarily a fighter who shoots bows... I think some sort of modified kensai class for ddo makes alot more sense. I also think there is a certain redundancy between duelist and dwarven defender which are both defensive classes and I would like to see a third different class in order to give fighters some variability.

[Twerpp]

LOL. If fighter love mod comes...I will be rollin yet another new melee. Unless they give me the option to throw Zergtech back in the forge and have him come out the other side as a WF Juggernaut

[The_Phenx]

So now Ftrs have two choices - you get to be a second rate DPS/TWF build (with the exception of 6 level ranger splashes), or you get to be first rate Tank.

Chuckle...nothing seccond rate about a well played twf toon. Especially a 16th level pure fighter...

[Cold_Stele]

Chuckle...nothing seccond rate about a well played twf toon. Especially a 16th level pure fighter...

/Sigh - please don't make me break out the numbers again.

How well you play is irrelevant - simple fact of the matter is if you were a 16 Barb instead you'd hit harder, crit more (particularly important for TWF puncturing builds), have better saves and more HP.

If you don't wanna trust me on this check any one of the other hundred 'over-powered barbs' threads...

*edit* just seen your post recommending Barb 14 Ftr 2 as the max DPS build in the current game so not too sure why you say 16 Ftr's just as good...? /shrugs

Stele

[The_Phenx]

If you wana go by the book shure a barb fighter splash has a higher dps by the books, and yes blah blah about the crit range... speed makes up the difference which is why I suggest the ranger as an alternative to him.

But there is nothing seccond rate about a well built pure twf fighter. Its like comparing a Ferrari to a Lamborghini, yes one may go 14 mph faster, but really when your going over 200 mph its not that big of a difference.

My 16th level halfling fighter has amazing dps, a great ac, high saves, high Hit points, and can heal. Not wand whip, not chug a pot, or scroll heal. Fully heal.

And you need all the feats of a 16th level fighter to do it.

All in what you want to do, Me.. I like knowing I can live, out kill just about everyone, spare the clerics some work, and save the party if necessary.

Just ask those that have run with me, they know.

And well heres hoping the prestige classes are worth a ****.

[Cold_Stele]

Just ask those that have run with me, they know.

Hey I don't doubt for one second that you can mix it up - but like the rest of the hardcore Ftrs here you're doing that DESPITE what the enhancement system did to your build, NOT because of it...

And well heres hoping the prestige classes are worth a ****.

Now that I do agree with

Can someone link me into the dev comments about the PrC's though, I'd love to read them first hand.

[The_Phenx]

Can someone link me into the dev comments about the PrC's though, I'd love to read them first hand.

It's in the interview on the third party site...just cant remember which one.

[maddmatt70]

The hot new builds this mod I would say are the ranger/monks and in particular halflings. At least 6 levels of ranger for tempest but usually with just a level or two of monk and perhaps 2 levels of fighter or paladin with the rest ranger. Those build can have 60-70+ ac and kick out a fair amount of damage more then a fighter anyway. Even Vod elite the mobs will miss and the build saves are very high. The whole fighter/barbarian debate is so yesterday.

The weapons in this game keep improving such that ability scores in an offensive sense are less and less important because ability scores have not improved that much. Really ability scores (strength) are making up a smaller % of the dps. This is all an advantage to rangers with tempest which is based on attack frequency. The weakness of rangers is still hit points, but if they can get their ac and saves high enough like these monk/rangers builds have reached they can circumvent this weakness...