My take on Mod 7 - that was your Ftr love...

[Cold_Stele]

Firstly forgive me if this was discussed way back but I've been away a couple of months.

On coming back to the game I'm immediately struck by what has and hasn't changed in the game -

1. Intimidation went to a 6 second timer.

2. AC went up another 2 points.

3. Amongst the new raid loot were bracers/tower shields with healing amplification.

4. There were no new enhancements or feats to improve Ftrs.

5. Crit Rage remains unchanged.


It seems to me obvious that mod 7 was all the Ftr love you're going to get...


The mod 4 enhancement system pigeon-holed all Ftrs as Intimi-Tanks and the devs seem content to continue with this philosophy.

So now Ftrs have two choices - you get to be a second rate DPS/TWF build (with the exception of 6 level ranger splashes), or you get to be first rate Tank.

I consider myself lucky as my THF DPS toon also maxed his Intimidate skill - it's probably time to burn some shards and end up with something close to Riot's/Borro's build...

If you went DPS and didn't take Intimidate - you gotta face facts that your build's always gonna be sub-optimal

[Aesop]

Devs have stated that they are going to be doing Tactical Feats (as Enhancements for FIghters)as well as some Fighter PrEs soon... possibly next mod.

There have been a few threads about other Feats we'd like to see added in and hopefully a dev has poked through a few of them


Aesop

[Varr]

This always kills me. Give me a 0 pt build, thats right a human with all 8's for starting stats, and let me gear tweek it. Then let me level like everyone else, with enhancments, and I will end up with a very playable character past level 2. I dont even care the class. Productive and fun do not have to be optimal. Usefull is not only found in the leet.

Some class has to do the most dps, some class has to heal the best, some class has to survive the best, some class has to buff the best. Taking one class and trying to leep frog some other is pointless. You can play a fighter many fun ways, two weapon, sword n board, two handed..........a slasher or blugeoner, a triper or a stunner. 58 vs 61 ac.........+35 vs +41 to hit..........all shades of grey.

I will be the first to admit, Im really responding for the first time to 2874 posts about "my class needs more .....blah........ cause it is second to class b." So dont take it personaly cold, your post is one of the most reasonable, just cant imagine with all the incredible gear.........loot items, and shroud weapons.......even random drops, how people can dislike their class so much so often. There are so many easy ways to make your toon powerfull enough to chop up mobs and have fun doing it.

Intimdate was hugly improved as a side note, and this update was really monk focused so I wasnt expecting much fighter focus. Again want to apologize for taking the other side of the fence so strongly, has more to do with forum general class self interest and negitivity than your particular post, you are just the lucky one I responded to.

[adamkatt]

Fighters have always been messed up... They cant cast thier own resists!

[xberto]

This always kills me. Give me a 0 pt build, thats right a human with all 8's for starting stats, and let me gear tweek it. Then let me level like everyone else, with enhancments, and I will end up with a very playable character past level 2. I dont even care the class. Productive and fun do not have to be optimal. Usefull is not only found in the leet.

Some class has to do the most dps, some class has to heal the best, some class has to survive the best, some class has to buff the best. Taking one class and trying to leep frog some other is pointless. You can play a fighter many fun ways, two weapon, sword n board, two handed..........a slasher or blugeoner, a triper or a stunner. 58 vs 61 ac.........+35 vs +41 to hit..........all shades of grey.

I will be the first to admit, Im really responding for the first time to 2874 posts about "my class needs more .....blah........ cause it is second to class b." So dont take it personaly cold, your post is one of the most reasonable, just cant imagine with all the incredible gear.........loot items, and shroud weapons.......even random drops, how people can dislike their class so much so often. There are so many easy ways to make your toon powerfull enough to chop up mobs and have fun doing it.

Intimdate was hugly improved as a side note, and this update was really monk focused so I wasnt expecting much fighter focus. Again want to apologize for taking the other side of the fence so strongly, has more to do with forum general class self interest and negitivity than your particular post, you are just the lucky one I responded to.

dito.
I love my sub-optimal fighters. Well some might call them sub-optimal. Its hard to put a price tag on a trip or stun that disables a foe before they even get a swing in. What about the extra hits that a good sunder might produce? I think fighters have the love, just that many don't understand what it's about.

[Cold_Stele]

Its hard to put a price tag on a trip or stun that disables a foe before they even get a swing in.

You're aware that you need to spend 20AP on Ftr's Trip + Stunning Blow IV to get a DC equal to a raging Barb's right?

[Emili]

This always kills me. Give me a 0 pt build, thats right a human with all 8's for starting stats, and let me gear tweek it. Then let me level like everyone else, with enhancments, and I will end up with a very playable character past level 2. I dont even care the class. Productive and fun do not have to be optimal. Usefull is not only found in the leet.

Some class has to do the most dps, some class has to heal the best, some class has to survive the best, some class has to buff the best. Taking one class and trying to leep frog some other is pointless. You can play a fighter many fun ways, two weapon, sword n board, two handed..........a slasher or blugeoner, a triper or a stunner. 58 vs 61 ac.........+35 vs +41 to hit..........all shades of grey.

I will be the first to admit, Im really responding for the first time to 2874 posts about "my class needs more .....blah........ cause it is second to class b." So dont take it personaly cold, your post is one of the most reasonable, just cant imagine with all the incredible gear.........loot items, and shroud weapons.......even random drops, how people can dislike their class so much so often. There are so many easy ways to make your toon powerfull enough to chop up mobs and have fun doing it.

Intimdate was hugly improved as a side note, and this update was really monk focused so I wasnt expecting much fighter focus. Again want to apologize for taking the other side of the fence so strongly, has more to do with forum general class self interest and negitivity than your particular post, you are just the lucky one I responded to.

While I dislike, the "this class gets such and such" and "that class is better at" threads the only thing I may point out is in the past two years, they nerfed back the pally and fighter classes... then concentrated on PrC's and class enhancements for all but the fighter class (save adding in the greater weapon specialization feat). I did agree some nerfing was needed to bring the aboundance of fighter class in the populace in line... however, with all the cool PrC/enhancement add-ons the other classes got to flavor it leaves a fighter feeling pretty ordinary in play. What I mean by that is they should add some color to the class... many people tout the fighter's bonus feats as being thier specialty - this is true of PnP but one must realize that DDO has but a small subset of the feats of DnD then to add PrC's and other enhancements to the other classes over the past two years... the fighter community feel like there is nothing new in-game for them save for quests/loot - which everyone can have... I guess my real point is that they have a consistant habit (because the game is not complete to lvl 20) to give heavy attention to a class at a time with very few updates per year that they create an atmosphere where it's great to be x class for a few months... but z class is old and passe.

[Angelus_dead]

Devs have stated that they are going to be doing Tactical Feats (as Enhancements for FIghters)as well as some Fighter PrEs soon... possibly next mod.

My guesses/hopes for Fighter specialty enhancements are
* Dwarven Defender (opened to non-dwarf fighters or non-fighter dwarves)
* Duelist / Swashbuckler
* Samurai

[Aesop]

My guesses/hopes for Fighter specialty enhancements are
* Dwarven Defender (opened to non-dwarf fighters or non-fighter dwarves)
* Duelist / Swashbuckler
* Samurai

I'd agree about he Defender
duelist is a little twitchy because its really closer to a rogue class then a fighter one... but maybe
I think something like Kensai is likely (which is sorta like a Samurai only different


probably a Weapon Master type PrE in place of duelist would be my guess


Aesop

[Angelus_dead]

probably a Weapon Master type PrE in place of duelist would be my guess

Yes, Weapon Master had been an earlier assumption of mine.

But thinking about it, that would be pretty unbalanced, because people would only go towards the weapons that are already most powerful: khopesh or falchion (or SOS/Deathnip, if you have them). That's why I think a Samurai specialty would be a better choice- it would be focused on using the Katana (AKA Bastard Sword), which is a weapon currently in hardly any demand in DDO. They could gain abilities that would bring the Bastard up to the power of the khopesh, plus some other benefits.

[Cold_Stele]

Does anyone have a link to the dev's stating they're definitely going to be adding Ftr PrE's? Like I said I've been away a couple of months and I've missed a lot. Sure we all want Weapon Masters, Dwarven Defenders, etc. but I stopped wishing for something that's never gonna happen a long time ago. If anyone can say otherwise I'd be more than happy to reassess my opinion.

Don't get me wrong with the purpose of my post though - nowhere here am I grumbling or crying nerf... I'm just saying that as far as build optimization goes (and this is a Ftr build optimization forum right?) - there's only really one optimal build type for Ftrs and I see that getting reinforced, not changed...

Stele

[yankonis0]

Yes, Weapon Master had been an earlier assumption of mine.

But thinking about it, that would be pretty unbalanced, because people would only go towards the weapons that are already most powerful: khopesh or falchion (or SOS/Deathnip, if you have them). That's why I think a Samurai specialty would be a better choice- it would be focused on using the Katana (AKA Bastard Sword), which is a weapon currently in hardly any demand in DDO. They could gain abilities that would bring the Bastard up to the power of the khopesh, plus some other benefits.

That's one thing that I dislike about DnD, some weapons are just better then other's. I hate to say it, but DnD is in need of a some weapon normalization.

[Ralmeth]

My guesses/hopes for Fighter specialty enhancements are
* Dwarven Defender (opened to non-dwarf fighters or non-fighter dwarves)
* Duelist / Swashbuckler
* Samurai

Oooh...I so want to make a Duelist / Swashbuckler, I real swashbuckler PrC and not just a Fighter / Rogue mix that I make up myself. It just won't work if they don't introduce cool swashbuckler clothing

[Angelus_dead]

Oooh...I so want to make a Duelist / Swashbuckler, I real swashbuckler PrC and not just a Fighter / Rogue mix that I make up myself. It just won't work if they don't introduce cool swashbuckler clothing

Yes, or as a start, they could allow some of the existing Padded Armor outfit to come on robes. Many of the designs that are used for Padded Armor in DDO look no different from what unarmored characters are wearing in the D&D books.

[maddmatt70]

My guesses/hopes for Fighter specialty enhancements are
* Dwarven Defender (opened to non-dwarf fighters or non-fighter dwarves)
* Duelist / Swashbuckler
* Samurai

So every offensive fighter has to wield a bastard sword - that would annoy me to no end. I have a dwarven fighter who uses axes and an elven archer that is primarily a fighter who shoots bows... I think some sort of modified kensai class for ddo makes alot more sense. I also think there is a certain redundancy between duelist and dwarven defender which are both defensive classes and I would like to see a third different class in order to give fighters some variability.

[Twerpp]

LOL. If fighter love mod comes...I will be rollin yet another new melee. Unless they give me the option to throw Zergtech back in the forge and have him come out the other side as a WF Juggernaut

[geoffhanna]

My guesses/hopes for Fighter specialty enhancements are
* Dwarven Defender (opened to non-dwarf fighters or non-fighter dwarves)
* Duelist / Swashbuckler
* Samurai

Kensai

[Eladrin]

Kensai

Good guess.

Currently the plan for Fighters is (Dwarven) Defender, Kensai, and Purple Dragon Knight.

Yes, originally I had PDK listed as a Paladin one, but they went Defender of Siberys (Sealtiel), Knight of the Chalice, Hunter of the Dead. Purple Dragon Knight fit the fighters better as we started working on it.

[Samadhi]

Good guess.

Currently the plan for Fighters is (Dwarven) Defender, Kensai, and Purple Dragon Knight.

Yes, originally I had PDK listed as a Paladin one, but they went Defender of Siberys (Sealtiel), Knight of the Chalice, Hunter of the Dead. Purple Dragon Knight fit the fighters better as we started working on it.

Anyone know a good online site where someone not familiar with 3.5 rules could look up these?

I have a distinct worry that my current melees will somehow find a way to not be able to meet any of the prereqs

[Tanka]

Unless you're doing a fair amount of changes to how the PDK works, most (if not all) of the PDK abilities work much better as a Paladin than a Fighter -- not to mention the note in Complete Warrior saying that PDKs that are Paladins can go back to Paladin after being a PDK.

One thing I wish would be brought in, as well as many other Fighters, is a Tactics PrE. Having to use +10 Trip/Stun items on Elite content really takes out options in terms of weapons -- it means using something junky of Weighted 5%/something equally junky of Vertigo +10 over your Lightning 2/Mineral 2 dual-wield combo.