The QA Lodge

[DeadlyGazebo]

The Toughness granted by Minos Legens, as currently implemented, allows access to the Toughness enhancements. These enhancements remain even if the helm is later removed. As I see it, this is a somewhat gray area, and there are two parts that could use some clarification about whether or not they're bugs:

1. Should the Toughness granted by the helmet open up enhancement lines?
2. If the answer to #1 is Yes, should the enhancement lines remain if the helmet is removed?

1: That's a bug. Prereqs should generally only count things that are fairly permanent.
2: Much of the motivation for #1 is not needing to deal with answering this kind of question.

[MysticTheurge]

2) No. Resistance bonuses do not stack with other Resistance bonuses. Both Protection from Evil and resistance items give Resistance bonuses to saving throws, so they should not stack. Spells like Heorism give Morale bonuses to Saving Throws so that will stack with either Resistance bonus.

3) Same answer as number 2. Holy Aura gives a resistance bonus. The effect should match the description of the spell. This is a general rule. If the description says it's an AOE and you're only hitting yourself, it's a bug, and vice versa.

Are fixes coming for these then?

(Also, are you going to add in the "Blindness Ward" portion of this spell, which is one of the only reasons it would be useful in DDO.)

[Silthe]

Blocking DR without a shield seems to be a static number regardless of class or level = DR 2. Is this intentional ?
I remember a dev post from over a year ago that explained how a character's base attack bonus plays into the DR amount for both shielded and shield-less blocking.

The Protection from Evil spell has an extremely short casting range (last I checked), unlike other so-called Touch range spells in DDO. Intentional ?

The Good Hope mouse-over description says it gives an Ability check bonus. What is that in DDO terms? It does not seem to be anything. Should it?

D&D characters are allowed to simultaneously utilize Combat Expertise & Fighting Defensively & Power Attack. In DDO these toggles are mutually exclusive. Did you purposely deviate from the D&D rules or is this old game engine tech that could be fixed now?

Some creatures display an IMMUNE message when certain weapon or spell effects are attempted against them. Other creatures demonstrate immunities (we have to guess) without showing the IMMUNE message. I think we see blue sparkles instead? I am still not sure what this sparkle means (if anything) because I've never seen an ingame TIP or contextual help about it. Why have this confusion? Could we get a consistent feedback system implemented?

1) I'm pretty sure that blocking without a shield is intentionally weak. The blocking DR is actually a complex formula taking several things into consideration such as level, BAB, shield qualities, etc. I think without a shield though a lot of the benefit goes away, and that was intentional.

2) Check it against Otto's Resistable Dance and I think you'll find the ranges similar. Basically, for touch spells you need to be more or less right next to the target to cast. The Cure spells however (Cure Light Wounds, etc) had their range increased to make it possible to heal effectively. That was a deliberate deviation from the pen and paper rules just to make playing a cleric fun and effective. In the early pre-release days, the cure spells (and a few other restorative spells) were all set to very short range. You think it's difficult getting the barbarian to sit still long enough to get buffed? You try healing him in the middle of a grand melee when you need to be right next to him to do it. Now think about doing that for four more people at the same time.

We only changed the ranges on spells we thought would mostly be cast in combat on allies. The rest we left as is.

3) Hmm... Good Hope DOES give bonuses to Ability checks, as per the pencil and paper rules. Thing is, I don't think there ARE any Ability checks in DDO. Rest assured though, if there were, Good Hope would give you bonuses to them. (This is a peril of copying text from the D&D Player's Handbook.)

4) Combat Expertise, Defensive Fighting, and the rest were deliberately made exclusive back in pre-alpha. Unfortunately, no one seems to remember what the reasoning was. Fortunately, no one seems to remember what the reasoning was. I suggest starting a separate thread to see what others in the community think about changing how it works now. If there's enough support, we might start discussing it internally. If anyone suddenly rememebrs what the original reasoning was, I'll let you know.

5) We have a consistent feedback system. There are three ways a monster will avoid a spell effect, each with a different visual cue to let you know what's going on. First, is the blue-ish little octagon thing to indicate that it made its saving throw. Second, is the Immune message telling you that no matter what you do, the monster will not be affected by your spell. Third, the blue "sparkly" as you put it indicates that you failed to overcome the monster's spell resistance. The first and third indicate it might be useful to try casting again, as there is a chance the spell will take effect. The Immune message tells you to try something else.


~Silthe

[MysticTheurge]

3) Hmm... Good Hope DOES give bonuses to Ability checks, as per the pencil and paper rules. Thing is, I don't think there ARE any Ability checks in DDO. Rest assured though, if there were, Good Hope would give you bonuses to them. (This is a peril of copying text from the D&D Player's Handbook.)

In DDO, the "save" against being tripped is effectively an ability check. And I'm pretty sure that Good Hope is not affecting it.

[MrCow]

In DDO, the "save" against being tripped is effectively an ability check. And I'm pretty sure that Good Hope is not affecting it.

Nor does Symbol of Pain affect it either.

[Turial]

In DDO, the "save" against being tripped is effectively an ability check. And I'm pretty sure that Good Hope is not affecting it.

I would also think that breaking down doors or using runes would also fall under an ability check.

[MysticTheurge]

I would also think that breaking down doors or using runes would also fall under an ability check.

I can understand the distinction there, though. That's not a "check" so much as it is something that requires a certain ability score.

I've argued before that Good Hope should give you a bonus to your effective score for those things since, in D&D, they would be ability checks. But I could also really live without it.

The being tripped thing, though, is absolutely a d20 + an ability modifier, which is precisely what an ability check is.

[jkm]

Third, the blue "sparkly" as you put it indicates that you failed to overcome the monster's spell resistance. ~Silthe

we are talking a totally different blue effect here. the SR failure looks like you hit a blue concave shield (think star trek spaceship shields). the sparkly he is talking about looks like welding sparks being thrown off for a second.

[Borror0]

Blocking DR without a shield seems to be a static number regardless of class or level = DR 2. Is this intentional ?

• With Shield:
  This fomula applies when blocking with a shield and only against melee attacks. Active (bracketed) Damage Reduction is halved if blocking ranged attacks.
  
  Passive DR + [(BAB / 2) + 2 + Shield DR rating (now includes Shield Enhancement) + Shield Mastery Feats + Shield Mastery Enhancements]
  
  
• Two-Weapon Fighting:
  This fomula applies when blocking while wielding two weapons and only against melee attacks. Active (bracketed) Damage Reduction is divided by 4 if blocking ranged attacks.
  
  Passive DR + [(BAB / 3) + 2 + Two-weapon Blocking Feat]
  
  
• Two-Handed Fighting, Single weapon & no shield, or Unarmed:
  This fomula applies when blocking while wielding a two-handed weapon, a single weapon but no shield or fighting unarmed and only against melee attacks. Full Damage Reduction if blocking ranged attacks.
  
  Passive DR + [(BAB / 5) + 1]

Figure out yourself if it's working properly. Could be a display bug.

[MysticTheurge]

5) We have a consistent feedback system.

On that topic... can we look (again) into getting that feedback system reflected in the combat log?

Spell resistance already shows up, but it'd be nice if you got Immune and Save messages there as well. We obviously don't need to see the numbers involved in the monster's save, but given that the blue-hex already tells us whether they save or not, is there a reason we can't see that in the combat log (along the lines of "<Monster> saved against your <Spell>."

[DeadlyGazebo]

• Two-Handed Fighting, Single weapon & no shield, or Unarmed:
  This fomula applies when blocking while wielding a two-handed weapon, a single weapon but no shield or fighting unarmed and only against melee attacks. Full Damage Reduction if blocking ranged attacks.
  
  Passive DR + [(BAB / 5) + 1]

And this is deliberately pretty lame -- a dragon tries to bite you and you decide to... stick your arm in the way? Yeah, I suppose it's less bad than having him eat your head, but you aren't really helping a whole lot. If you want to block, go buy a shield (or at least get an off-hand weapon so you're sticking something steel up the dragon's nose).

Also, yay for people reading my previous posts on the all-too-complicated blocking DR system

[Turial]

....
Also, yay for people reading my previous posts on the all-too-complicated blocking DR system

Why is the DR different for blocking ranged attacks? One would think that a shield would be just as effective at blocking incoming arrows as it would be for melee attacks.

[DeadlyGazebo]

On that topic... can we look (again) into getting that feedback system reflected in the combat log?

Spell resistance already shows up, but it'd be nice if you got Immune and Save messages there as well. We obviously don't need to see the numbers involved in the monster's save, but given that the blue-hex already tells us whether they save or not, is there a reason we can't see that in the combat log (along the lines of "<Monster> saved against your <Spell>."

Yeah, this has been on my to-do list for a long time. Since, um, the point in beta testing when I wrote most of the chat feedback that we do have. Unfortunately, there are a lot of things considered higher priority, so it keeps being bumped down into the "next time" bin.

Also, if there are any particular spells or effects that aren't giving the appropriate blue splash or immune text, it may be worth filing a bug; we do have the power to stop those (for things like making paladin auras not spam immunity messages), so it is possible that we accidentally set some effect to not give feedback when it really should.

[Borror0]

Also, yay for people reading my previous posts on the all-too-complicated blocking DR system

Actually, the credits go to Mab_Bombardier for going in game and figuring it out himself.

[MysticTheurge]

And this is deliberately pretty lame -- a dragon tries to bite you and you decide to... stick your arm in the way?

Why, if you're wielding a big-ass sword, axe or hammer would you try to block with your arm instead of the aforementioned big-ass weapon? For that matter why would you do it when you were using a smaller, one-handed weapon?

(Which is to say, why are Twohanded Fighting and One-handed No-Shield in the same category as Unarmed instead of in the same category as Two Weapon fighting? Wouldn't the logical thing to do when blocking be to use your weapon, even if it's not in the offhand, to do the blocking?)

[Borror0]

Yeah, this has been on my to-do list for a long time. Since, um, the point in beta testing when I wrote most of the chat feedback that we do have. Unfortunately, there are a lot of things considered higher priority, so it keeps being bumped down into the "next time" bin.

When you do that, could you consider a way to filter the feedback we get per window?

Liek this, I could have a widnow for how often I get it, another for saves, etc. It'd be nice also to consider adding dices for spells like Ray of Enfleebement. Right now, we have no idea of how much we have debuffed the mob for. Oh, and SR rolls. Oh, and better feedback for saves we do. Sometimes they are missing.

[Borror0]

(Which is to say, why are Twohanded Fighting and One-handed No-Shield in the same category as Unarmed instead of in the same category as Two Weapon fighting? Wouldn't the logical thing to do when blocking be to use your weapon, even if it's not in the offhand, to do the blocking?)

It's much easier to block with two weapons than with a big badass sword.

[MysticTheurge]

Oh, and SR rolls.

Your SR rolls aren't in the combat log?

I could've sworn I got them. Am I imagining that?

[MysticTheurge]

It's much easier to block with two weapons than with a big badass sword.

You know if we weren't just standing there with the weapons in front of our faces, I might buy that answer.

[Borror0]

Your SR rolls aren't in the combat log?

I could've sworn I got them. Am I imagining that?

Hmmm... pretty sure they aren't... would need to recheck... /logs on