The QA Lodge

[Puddles404]

It comes down to literal interpretation of the rules. Nowhere in the DMG or PHB does it state that saving throws are considered an action. If they were, you wouldnt be able to make them on other's turns. But, specific beats general, so the rule states that this is an action, and a full-round action. Of course, this is making what is essentially thinking a 6 second long action. ???

I can almost assure you that the spell description is written like that to make sure people play it that way. Nowhere else does it say that saving throws are actions, or full round actions. You dont end your turn dodging a trap in combat. You dont end your turn if you make a save against a Web or Grease spell. And it doesnt take any time out of your turn to do so. It's a specific rule for a specific situation, and it's horribly bad dm'ing to take a specific rule and apply it generally.

If you ever DM, it's your call, but i'd be out of that game.

[MysticTheurge]

Edit: it seems clear that the saving throw IS intended to be allowed, which implies that mental actions in general are allowed the same as under paralyzed. The strict interpretation really just comes down to the infinite loop of whether you can make a save or not.

It's really kind of a moot point since, as you point out, saving against Hold Person/Monster is supposed to be a full-round action, thus preventing you from doing anything else, besides Free Actions, so long as your attempting to save against the spell (which the devils would be constantly doing). Since spell-like abilities require the same action/casting time as the spell they're based on, the Devils' Greater Teleport requires a standard action. That means they can't attempt to save against Hold Monster and use Greater Teleport at the same time.

Thus, creatures may, in general, be able to take purely mental actions while held, but Devils should not be able to use their Greater Teleport ability.

[vyvy3369]

Thus, creatures may, in general, be able to take purely mental actions while held, but Devils should not be able to use their Greater Teleport ability.

Keep in mind that the spell doesn't say they HAVE to attempt a saving throw as a full-round action, just that they're able to. If you're willing to agree that mental actions are allowed, they wouldn't be allowed a saving throw but they may very well move out of the spell's range.

[MysticTheurge]

Keep in mind that the spell doesn't say they HAVE to attempt a saving throw as a full-round action, just that they're able to.

Except DDO doesn't enable that mechanic. You roll a save as often as possible. You cannot choose to not save and take other actions instead.

[vyvy3369]

Except DDO doesn't enable that mechanic. You roll a save as often as possible. You cannot choose to not save and take other actions instead.

DDO also allows them to teleport while held/paralyzed IIRC...I thought we were just discussing how it works in PnP.

[Puddles404]

We were talking PnP. At least i thought we were.

All spells allow a saving throw unless the specify that they dont. And trying to save is completely optional. Obviously, this really only has RP value, as there is no point what-so-ever to trying to resist your Cure spells or Bless, or anyother spell that is considered beneficial. And there is certainly no reason why you would choose to fail the Save vs Disintegrate or FoD. I believe there is a spell that lets you turn into mist, similar to a vamps Mist Form ability, that can actually be used to remove enemies from combat when used with Gust of Wind. All the Hold ... spells do is specify that you can't act in the same round you make the save.

And it is not a mental action, it is part of the spell rules. The only thing that is happening is that you are making a save to resolve spell effects. The rulebooks, and common sense should, state that a specific rule overules any general rules. If you cant take any action while under the effect of a spell, but the spell says you can use a full-round action to make a save, you can take that action; but only when under the effects of that spell. Look at the disease rules. It says that you have to make 2 successive saves to remove a disease from yourself. But then, mummy rot and the devil's disease require you to make more than 2 to overcome the disease. The Evasion class ability, same thing. Rules state that you take half damage on a succesful reflex save. Unless you have Evasion, or improved evasion.

The problem is, there is no DM in DDO to make the kind of judgement calls that the PnP game allows. You cant use Strength to intimidate, you cant use Intelligence to bluff. So, it will more likely work one way all the time as opposed to situationaly.

[MysticTheurge]

DDO also allows them to teleport while held/paralyzed IIRC...I thought we were just discussing how it works in PnP.

We were discussing how it should work in DDO and using the D&D rules as a basis.

I'm fine with DDO allowing them to teleport while held provided that it delays their ability to save against the spell for six seconds.

[Ryvin1]

Why can't we assassinate with with a range weapon, at least within backstabbing range? I was pretty sure you could in PnP, and logically I think kill shots make sense in game also.

[jkm]

wow, a stickyjack. impressive.

when using flesh to stone on quinny (named undead rat in the orchard) she turns into speedy stonegalez and zips all over the place. she then tries to make a break for it out of cave but saddenly she seems to be having mouse trouble that prevents her from exiting.

hypothesis - fts is working like the fear effect for her.

[Angelus_dead]

I'm confused why you would include paralyzed on this list, claim "enough said" and not link to the D&D rules on the topic which clearly state "A paralyzed character has effective Dexterity and Strength scores of 0 and is helpless, but can take purely mental actions."

Because Geriant just got finished reading the paralyzed rules, which I had already linked to him immediately previously. Literally, "enough" had been said.

[MysticTheurge]

Why can't we assassinate with with a range weapon, at least within backstabbing range? I was pretty sure you could in PnP, and logically I think kill shots make sense in game also.

Nope, you cannot (use Death Attack at range in D&D).

If an assassin studies his victim for 3 rounds and then makes a sneak attack with a melee weapon that successfully deals damage, the sneak attack has the additional effect of possibly either paralyzing or killing the target (assassin’s choice).

[Quanefel]

Do you have another feat that has power attack as a prerequisite? Like cleave?

Vordax

Yes, dang. Never thought about that. Thanks. Guess I am stuck with Power Attack because I love my cleave on my monk. Oh well. :P

[Kromize]

I have noticed, while using maladroit an bone breaking, when you take a mobs dexterity down to 0, some mobs can move, while others can't. (like ogres can't move, but raksasha can) Which ones are bugged?

[Missing_Minds]

Try this one that has been in existence forever.

When my "open door" "open lock" "shrining" bar is full, I should be done, not wait 1-2 seconds longer AFTER that.

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=152269

[GlassCannon]

As soon as the Titan's shields fell, the door did too. I thought they had fired too late and was going for the crystal. I've waited almost 20 mins for the GM already, and my friend is getting impatient waiting for the GM to help me so I can leave with him. Life does not wait for GMs.

Edit: It took about 25 mins, but the GM happily moved my little guy outside tha barrier, Thank you Praliet! Kudos to the GMs who don't monkey around.

[GlassCannon]

Try this one that has been in existence forever.

When my "open door" "open lock" "shrining" bar is full, I should be done, not wait 1-2 seconds longer AFTER that.

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=152269

I am actually quite accustomed to the wait to a point near reflexive. I can start running as soon as the action is complete.... but every now and then.... I miscalc and end up Interrupting the completed process. Newer players die a lot because of it.

I would also like this changed.

[MrCow]

As soon as the Titan's shields fell, the door did too.

Yeah, this is a bug that annoys me now and then too. However, it is still possible for a caster to cast a dimension door through the barrier if they aim themselves right. If you look up at the barrier, where the barrier meets the ceiling, stand at a 30° angle from facing the barrier, and cast then you can get it through once in a while.

I know it is not what you want to hear, but at least players are somewhat capable of finding a workaround for now.

[GlassCannon]

I want a Reskinning tool so I can reskin this guy to a little baby floating around in Monk gear. I also want to turn Reconfigured Blender's head into a Blender.


Also, note the fact his staff is attatched to the end of his potion bottle.

[GlassCannon]

Yeah, this is a bug that annoys me now and then too. However, it is still possible for a caster to cast a dimension door through the barrier if they aim themselves right. If you look up at the barrier, where the barrier meets the ceiling, stand at a 30° angle from facing the barrier, and cast then you can get it through once in a while.

I know it is not what you want to hear, but at least players are somewhat capable of finding a workaround for now.

Note that I am alone in the instance.

[MrCow]

Well, you might not have been alone when the raid was finished...