Why do Devs generally hotfix issues that help us, and rarely ones that hurt us?

[Zaodon]

Issues that help us
Recalling method of VoD: hotfixed
Vicious not hurting us: hotfixed
Casting in armor with 0% failure: hotfixed

Issues that harm us:
Handwraps not working right: not hotfixed.
New Armor/Shield alchemy bonuses: not hotfixed
Some ghosty mobs becoming immune to firewall: not hotfixed


Note the use of the words ""generally" and "rarely" in the title. I didn't say never. They gave monks and rogues some love in this hotfix, and fixed blade barrier. So, I didn't say never. But generally? Oh yeah, I'm spot on.

Why, Devs? Why do you have this philosophy? Why take the position that players getting a temporary advantage is a critical issue, but players getting hosed is "Eh, whatever, we'll get to it eventually." Don't you see that as a bad philosophy for customer satisfaction? Seriously, its a video game, who cares if we get a small advantage for a few weeks. Yet, you're fine with us getting hosed for months and months at a time. Makes no sense to me,

[captain1z]

Issues that help us
Recalling method of VoD: hotfixed
Vicious not hurting us: hotfixed
Casting in armor with 0% failure: hotfixed

Issues that harm us:
Handwraps not working right: not hotfixed.
New Armor/Shield alchemy bonuses: not hotfixed
Some ghosty mobs becoming immune to firewall: not hotfixed


Note the use of the words ""generally" and "rarely" in the title. I didn't say never. They gave monks and rogues some love in this hotfix, and fixed blade barrier. So, I didn't say never. But generally? Oh yeah, I'm spot on.

Why, Devs? Why do you have this philosophy? Why take the position that players getting a temporary advantage is a critical issue, but players getting hosed is "Eh, whatever, we'll get to it eventually." Don't you see that as a bad philosophy for customer satisfaction? Seriously, its a video game, who cares if we get a small advantage for a few weeks. Yet, you're fine with us getting hosed for months and months at a time. Makes no sense to me,

I noticed that about the ghosts not taking firewall damage. Was running around the orchard, the I did a POP run and stuff was laughing at my firewalls.

Well to follow your logic on fixes it may help if I say this:


- laying down area effect spells such as solid fog and fire wall stop the rats in the pile of bones in the Orchard from spawning.
This means I am unable to advance that objective on my 1st time character runs thru there. But................

- Ive noticed in a few other quests that have creatures that spawn when you enter, if you lay down the same types of spells, they wont spawn. Thus I can bypass certain fights easily and have more hp/sp and resources for later.


The two are related Im sure and its not likely you can fix one and not the other.

[Muirtach]

Issues that help us
Recalling method of VoD: hotfixed
Vicious not hurting us: hotfixed
Casting in armor with 0% failure: hotfixed

Issues that harm us:
Handwraps not working right: not hotfixed.
New Armor/Shield alchemy bonuses: not hotfixed
Some ghosty mobs becoming immune to firewall: not hotfixed


Note the use of the words ""generally" and "rarely" in the title. I didn't say never. They gave monks and rogues some love in this hotfix, and fixed blade barrier. So, I didn't say never. But generally? Oh yeah, I'm spot on.

Why, Devs? Why do you have this philosophy? Why take the position that players getting a temporary advantage is a critical issue, but players getting hosed is "Eh, whatever, we'll get to it eventually." Don't you see that as a bad philosophy for customer satisfaction? Seriously, its a video game, who cares if we get a small advantage for a few weeks. Yet, you're fine with us getting hosed for months and months at a time. Makes no sense to me,

Because people use those bugs which benefit them to gain advantage. That advantage can be used to unbalance. Much like those unscrupulous people who use exploits in raids to get loots easier and with less or even none of the danger those who man up (no offense to the female players, just a turn of phrase) and do it the right way.

If the player base did not rampantly utilize these issues to their benefit then the devs would not have to worry about them and could focus on the other manner of bugs.

[Chelsa]

Issues that help us
Why, Devs? Why do you have this philosophy? Why take the position that players getting a temporary advantage is a critical issue, but players getting hosed is "Eh, whatever, we'll get to it eventually." Don't you see that as a bad philosophy for customer satisfaction? Seriously, its a video game, who cares if we get a small advantage for a few weeks. Yet, you're fine with us getting hosed for months and months at a time. Makes no sense to me,

Seriously, its a video game, if it is such a small advantage why the complaint?

[jmelanie7]

They actually fixed MORE things harming us, than things helping us in that hotfix, check it out carefully

Things that helped us, by memory:
1-Barbarian critical range enhancement line.
2-vicious handwraps.
3-Vision of destruction.
4-0% chance failure.
5-No ki to get access to finishing move.
6-Cleansing a greensteel item without becoming bound


Things that were against us, by memory:
1-Blade barriers.
2-Friend's list.
3-Aligning the heavens
4-Fist of Iron
5-Way of the Badger
6-Sun Stance.
7-The movement speed penalty of Mountain Stance has been reduced
8-Higher levels of Mountain Stance now grant more Ki.
9-The speed from Ten Thousand Stars has been increased.
10-Paladin divine sacrifice.
11-Way of the assassin II now works!!
12-Crystals from titan raid does not longer go in the collectible bag ( that was annoying)

Ok so it may be only me, but from what i can recall, it is evident that we RECEIVED more than what has been taken away from us, no!?

[captain1z]

They actually fixed MORE things harming us, than things helping us in that hotfix, check it out carefully

Things that helped us, by memory:
1-Barbarian critical range enhancement line. - I cant comment...... no barbs
2-vicious handwraps. - but didnt fix ghost touched or other handwraps
3-Vision of destruction. - reportedly made hound harder
4-0% chance failure. - non - issue, we knew it was coming and wizards get very little benefit from wearing armor
5-No ki to get access to finishing move. - again cant comment.... no monk
6-Cleansing a greensteel item without becoming bound - peopl were selling these at crazy prices.. im indifferent on the matter


Things that were against us, by memory:
1-Blade barriers. - also affected mobs that like to spam BB... like the gnoll in shroud
2-Friend's list. - was weird but not critical
3-broken monk stances - a buncha class features that didnt work well, got shot in the foot, but was given a cane at the same time
4-Paladin divine sacrifice. - more dps, cant complain..... no one really uses this tho.... do they?
5-Way of the assassin II now works!! - fix that but the change affected anyone with stealth.....I dont like the change (yet?)
6-Crystals from titan raid does not longer go in the collectible bag ( that was annoying) - ok that helps

Ok so it may be only me, but from what i can recall, it is evident that we RECEIVED more than what has been taken away from us, no!?

I see your list more like this....... its the whole 1/2 empty, 1/2 full arguement

[adamkatt]

I figure they fixed what they had time for.

[Drider]

I see your list more like this....... its the whole 1/2 empty, 1/2 full arguement

Or the glass is just the wrong size.

[Auran82]

If mobs don't spawn because someone cast an AOE effect where they would spawn all you have to do to fix it is the person who cast the AOE effect needs to recall from the quest/area and the MOB will spawn.

[Aranticus]

EXPLOITS should be fixed as soon as to prevent misuse and more important to prevent players having the mentality of "if turbine has this it should be ok"

1. evasion - working with med or hvy armor
2. destruction - red names can be destructed
3. tome pages - farming w/o completion
4. summoning - making mobs unresponsive
5. portals - can be enfeebled making crit effects auto

these are just some of them. look at the amount of discussion over the validity of their use....

[captain1z]

I figure they fixed what they had time for.

I would disagree with that because what was fixed seems highly selective.....................


In the example above:

- Viscious was fixed but ghost touch, deception and handwraps not bypassing DR was not. this was a high priority for dps monks. to take away a source of dps (broken or not its the only one they had that worked properly in its brokenness) and not replace it with legitamate WAI handwraps is like a slap in the face....sorta.

- spell failure in hvy armor was fixed but this was not crutial because no caster in his right mind would wear armor that is just gunna raise his encumbrance and cant be switched out as fast as robes...... plus the AC bonus is useless to them. It was just a fun gimmick you could do in easy quests just for fun. not high priority

- VOD was wiping many parties, it even says so in the release notes. Fine, you cant/should not be able to re-enter any raids I can think of. This just means you will wipe once inside and not multiple times.... saves on cash I guess.... you either get it done or you dont. Why would you make the hound harder? people are still wiping in there also and unless they fixed that, you can still re-enter and there is a shrine.......I dont see the logic here. take time to make sure one seals off then do work in the other and not seal that one.

- Monk moves - yeah they increased the durations and effectiveness on the moves but made them harder to perform. Class abilities are supposed to support the user. Someone dies and a cleric will raise them if he has the sp but monks are unreliable. A monk can say "my special move with hurt the boss really bad, but Im not sure if I can generate enough ki and perform the proper attack sequence needed to pull it off" "dont count on it but Ill do it if everything works out in my favor..... oh yeah and please dont PK anything or firewall or attack them before me...... just makes it harder for me"

- divine sacrifice very few people use at all........... to invest time working on it when other issues are more pressing seems uneccessary to me.


Im not griping really, I think for the most part the devs do a great job and I cant do any better myself so I really cant say much. What I am saying is that I dont think the fixes vs non fixes had anything to do with time.


Teleporter to Meridia - thats all Im saying

[captain1z]

If mobs don't spawn because someone cast an AOE effect where they would spawn all you have to do to fix it is the person who cast the AOE effect needs to recall from the quest/area and the MOB will spawn.

I was running the orchard solo on my sorc when the rats stopped spawning. Next time Im in a group running the orchard I will definatly try this so maybe I can get that chest finally.

[captain1z]

EXPLOITS should be fixed as soon as to prevent misuse and more important to prevent players having the mentality of "if turbine has this it should be ok"

1. evasion - working with med or hvy armor
2. destruction - red names can be destructed
3. tome pages - farming w/o completion
4. summoning - making mobs unresponsive
5. portals - can be enfeebled making crit effects auto

these are just some of them. look at the amount of discussion over the validity of their use....

No arguement here............. makes perfect sense to me but it would be nice if they quickly followed up with fixes for things that are clearly broken and didnt drag it out for a mod.......... sometimes two.

Taking action on things that work in our favor but are clearly wrong but being noticably slower to fix things that should be working but because they dont are hurting us is only going to anger people.

[transtemporal]

If mobs don't spawn because someone cast an AOE effect where they would spawn all you have to do to fix it is the person who cast the AOE effect needs to recall from the quest/area and the MOB will spawn.

Actually, in the case of the rat pile, I can't get the rats to spawn no matter what I do. Even if I use no lingering AoE at all; e.g. fireball, FoD individually, melee each one - no spawn. I've run it maybe 12-15 times since mod 7 so maybe its just a low chance to spawn. Has anyone got them to spawn since mod 7?

[captain1z]

Actually, in the case of the rat pile, I can't get the rats to spawn no matter what I do. Even if I use no lingering AoE at all; e.g. fireball, FoD individually, melee each one - no spawn. I've run it maybe 12-15 times since mod 7 so maybe its just a low chance to spawn. Has anyone got them to spawn since mod 7?

What I mean is they start to spawn, in waves but as soon as I cast an AOE spell they stop and if I have a dog out he starts digging at the pile.......... so they are there but just wont come up. Like scorps do.

[jjflanigan]

Some people see a glass and say it is half-empty.

Some people see a glass and say it is half-full.

Some people see a glass and say "Hey, is that some sort of liquor?"

[Grickus]

The only way there really going to take us seriously is if we hit them in the pocketbook.

My account has just been cancelled, goodbye.

Love,
Grickus ( sarlona )

[captain1z]

Here is a fun fact I will leave you with before I head home from work.


The ladder bugs - present from mod 2 and fixed in mod 7 after a hail storm of arguing and light flaming between some posters and a dev. (great job on the fix btw.... cant find a broken ladder if I try) The final effort from dev saying "I'll fix it" till it was fixed took about 2 weeks....... granted the actual launching of the mod took longer, it was posted that the fix was in long before the mod which carried it was released.
Total time the bug was out = about 18 months



Spinning @ shrines - a little bug that popped up early in mod 6. Harmless, players where able to spin in circles while resting at a shrine, granting no advantage or drawback............ the act was just plain fun to do while running in a fun group. Kinda like sliding around while sneaking, sitting or dancing..... its just plain fun. Fixed in just over 30 days It was decided this was a big problem and fixed in the earliest patch window.


again........................ Teleporter to Meridia - thats all Im saying

[captain1z]

The only way there really going to take us seriously is if we hit them in the pocketbook.

My account has just been cancelled, goodbye.

Love,
Grickus ( sarlona )

solves little for those of us that want to play.

Its like drinking the tainted kool-aid just to make a point.

Id re-think that descision

[Lifespawn]

this isn't the first time if something helps the players it gets nerfed Hard

people exploiting the abbot was fixed quickly but the abbot raid itself meh we'll change some things at some point hey gettin on being a year on that goggle bug but hey screw it lets fix vicious handwraps.

Monks can't bypass dr to gain ki to pull of finishing moves no greaterbanes lots of Weapon effects missing from handwraps,no greensteel wraps...but hey lets fix that they can get off finishers without using ki.

Blade barrier very happy they fixed it but they broke it in the first place monks are a new class that was added you'd think they might want them to work for people comming back just because monks were released instead they don't make the handwraps work AND they fix the only slight advantage monks had (since specials and dr bypassers don't work)SWEET thx.